Sauna Boy Fees - Trouble in Paradise?

[Guest Jake]

Well, it's happening. A couple of months ago someone suggested that he was being asked for R$100 for the sauna boy to gozar (cum). I responded that was nonsense and I had only ever been asked for that twice in dozens of encounters and it was assumed that the fee was R$50 plus any modest tip you might want to give. No more, it seems. I returned this week after several weeks in Brazil and the drill has changed just since July when I was last there - mostly in Rio, but I suspect very quickly in Sao Paulo also as the Rio boys travel to SP often.

 

I have met several Americans over the last year and, of course, read the posts of several others who seem to feel that the boys have been grossly underpaid and were being taken advantage of. They're the ones rapidly changing the standard. The brazilians don't see it that way as they live in the economy and know what's going on and wouldn't think of paying R$100. (Many don't even pay R$50.) Are they being cheap and oppressing the boys? Am I taking advantage of them? Nooo.

 

The offenders don't seem to understand the fundamentals of the Brazilian economy nor how they are beginning to hurt the trade these boys (and their Brazilian clients) rely on. So I would like to make an attempt - as a couple of others have in recent months - to enlarge the picture. It really can be difficult to see.

 

Brazil IS NOT a third world economy! It is the 8th or 9th biggest in the world. It's poverty rate is somewhat high at close to 25%, but its unemployment rate is only about 8%. What's throwing everyone is the strength of the dollar against the Real. Within Brazil, everything is in relative balance. The poverty line in Brazil is defined as about R$250 per month. When you convert that to dollars

- $65 - it sounds terrible. BUT, I know Brazilian lawyers who make $1,000 per month and doctors who make not much more (and Brazilian health care is state of the art, you call for an appointment TOMORROW and is dirt cheap). When I go to the grocery and buy a pineapple, a bunch of bananas, a bunch of grapes, a couple of apples, a six-pack of yogurt, a quart(?) of orange juice and a litre of iced tea for about $2.50 I know I'm not in Kansas anymore - and sure as hell not NY or LA. The average income is in the area of $250-300 per month.

 

Now, take that information and think about it's translation both to the relative income of the sauna boys - and to the local clients who would like to be able to continue affording them. Or, for that matter to the growing legions of people who would love to be able to afford a trip to Brazil to experience the many joys available there.

 

This trip I also had the distinct impression that there were more boys and fewer local clients. Is it true? Is there a connection? WILL IT ALLOW THE SAUNAS TO STAY IN BUSINESS IF THEIR ENTRY AND CABINE INCOMES DROP AS FEWER CLIENTS PAY MORE MONEY TO THE BOYS? Who knows, but I think an increasing number of us are starting to mess with the order of things that produced this wonderful Brazilian resource in the first place.

 

Can I afford to pay more? Yes. Would I if I had to? Yes. Am I being cheap? No. Every trip I bring with me a dozen or so high quality very American designer name shirts and several cartons of American cigarettes as non-cash "bonuses" in addition to the R$10-or-20 tips I give for extra good or great experiences. I regularly buy drinks and/or sandwiches for the boys and will occasionally pay for their entry fees (none of the above for those who push for them, though. I volunteer higher fees R$80-100 for those who come to my quarters.

 

I decided to post this as a separate thread because I think it's going to be a growing issue as even more non-Brazilians make the pilgramage as we go into "season" - Spring, Summer, New Years and Carnival in Rio. Maybe we can get a healthy discussion going here that will benefit a lot of people.

[trilingual]

Well, all I can say is "amen!" Without reprising the very long earlier threads (because there's not really much new to say about the subject) all I can do is ask American and European visitors to Brazil not to tamper with the local economy, and to comply with the local price structure. Otherwise, it won't be long before this treasure is spoiled beyond redemption.

 

As for guys wanting more if they come, I've run into this in the past (before I ever put up the first posting that started the current avalanche of visitors). I've always just dealt with it by refusing to pay extra if it wasn't discussed up front. It doesn't matter what business it is, "hidden" extra charges turn customers away. If everyone else will do that, we can keep the practice from becoming entrenched. In some cases I can understand a guy wanting more if he comes, because even though they're young not all of them are capable of spurting repeatedly on demand. Often, too, a guy really just wants to take care of business and be on his way, because he may have been working or going to school all day and is still facing a long trip home to some distant suburb. It's OK with me, if a guy is up-front about what he's looking for. But if a guy says nothing, shoots his load, and then expects extra pay, I get seriously annoyed.

Especially because I've been with other guys who never think of asking for more to get off, and I've even been with a few memorable guys who did it more than once, without ever making any demands. (You can bet they got a handsome tip, though!)

 

To sum up, if we all will make an effort to hold the line and pay what locals do, things will be fine. The boys will be happy enough, they'll be earning money, the scene won't become to expensive for local clients to enjoy, and business will continue to thrive. If foreign visitors get too careless, and the guys get too greedy, business will inevitably start to dry up. Please, guys, do your part to keep things on an even keel and DON'T overpay and DON'T succumb to high-pressure or deceptive business practices. And if one of the sauna boys tries this, don't just say no, make it clear WHY you're saying no, and make it clear you're treating this the way you'd treat any other business arrangement.

[xchris]

I've red this worries in some Asia threads, too.

 

I think that we are all facing a problem of psycological matter.

Many gays suffer from being alone and when they meet a nice boy (escort or rent boy) they feel to live in a golden, separate world, apart from the normal, grey usual life.

That's why they succumb in paying more on demand. They don't want to miss the companions, or even to lose the fantastic atmosphere.

Even someone desire to pay much only to prove themselves and to the poor boys they are important, as a revenge to their normal life.

 

I'm not a professor, but I've experienced this in Thailand and Morocco before. And it is easy to understand that we are talking about the rules of demands and offers where the weak and unprepared part is often the rich one.

What I understood is the necessity of a personal knowledge, and the desire to become more accostumed to the moral issues involved with the difference of economical status. This doesn't mean that we=rich have always to agree with the desires of the boys=poors. This happens only when the sides are not balanced.

I've known europeans ripped off by wonderful moroccan boys, just because they live into a persistent unconsciousness, feeling guilty as a western-gay, and trying to solve (or cover) this lacking of culture and responsability overpaying, accepting to pay gifts and helps on demand, and dreaming to establishi a relationship based upon equal rights and desires with the poor (and culturally sly) boy.

 

When I travel I live a nice dream.

Dreams are good.

But when they become illusions they procure problems and difficulties. Even to the other dreamers.

 

I'll support every form of aknowledgement on this situation.

I'll try to understand more about this on my near trip to Ba and Rio.

 

Ciao

Chris (from Italy)

P.s.: it is even more difficult to write in english on such a controversial matter...

[+ Axiom2001]

I 100% agree with Jake's and Tri's take on this topic. I also agree with Jake: when I went to both Roger's and Estacao-- there tended to be more guys than clients. Was this due to it being Brazil's "low" season?

 

I, like Jake, and many others who frequent this site, can afford higher rates, but why try to fix something that hasn't been broken?

Men, stick to your guns! Don't succumb to demands which are unnecessary for the "giant sream"! Follow the salient advice that has been given in the many threads that appear at this forum/site.

[trilingual]

Chris, your English is quite understandable. And yes, you're right that some visitors allow themselves to be "guilt-tripped" into paying more than is reasonable. There are some long threads about this topic on other pages of this board, if you want to read those discussions. However, R$50 (the usual price of a session at the saunas) is a fair price for perhaps 1/2 hour of a guy's time when compared to the price of bus fare (R$1,50 or so), a working-man's meal (R$3 - 5), or the monthly minimum wage (R$200). Most people in a city like Rio need more than the minimum wage to live decently, but it should be obvious that if a guy only has two clients a week he will be earning FOUR TIMES the monthly minimum wage. Many of these guys have other jobs, so combined with what they earn there, they are living better than many of their fellow Brazilians. In the context of the Brazilian economy, there's no reason to feel guilty about paying "only" R$50.

 

Axiom, during "low season" there always seem to be more guys than clients. Actually, that's true during "high season," too, because schools are on holiday. A lot of guys from other cities come to Rio for their vacations and work the saunas to pay for their stay. So during "high season" there usually are more customers AND more "boys."

[trilingual]

Oops. Math mistake. It should be FOUR clients a week (two per night), and not TWO clients per week, to equal four times the minimum monthly wage. Obviously, some of the guys make far more than that.

[Guest Tomcal_]

Guys, I was told by Andre(andrew) and Anderson at 117 that they typically do 12-15 guys a week(granted they are two of the more popular and make more then a lot of the guys)if they get the min. $50. per guy, and we know they get more then that with some guys, that works out to $2400. to $2850. mo/min. for working in a towel/air conditioned place, pretty much a stress free enviorment, (unless you count the stress of the competiveness of getting customers, which all of us in any business have!) with a portion of your meals bought for you. This is better then alot of professional, i.e., teachers, lawyers etc. make in Rio! Also, as I previously stated, I heard the guys discussing a guy from Canada that was there, and when i asked Alek what they were laughing at, he said because the guy overpaid so much, they didn't respect him for being generous they thought he was a fool. The same we would feel if someone said he paid sticker price for a car!

[Driver]

If the boy asks me for more to come (usually quite far into the procedings) I get my towel switch on the light and make it clear the session has ended.