Airfare within Europe

[HooBoy]

If you are planning a visit to Europe, here is a good article from USA Today about inexpensive carries.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/bonus/fall2004/2004-09-28-european-discounters_x.htm

[londonbear]

I use Ryanair fairly often and usually pay a couple of pounds sterling plus tax (I have paid nothing plus taxes!) Often if you check out the next or previous days for your flights you can find a better deal. I know someone in Turin who I visit and an out Thursay or Saturday, return Monday weekend is often cheaper than out Friday return Sunday.

 

Note that from London MOST Easyjet flights are from Luton Airport with some from Stanstead which is the main Ryanair hub. Stanstead is easier to get to ( a tip, there is a very cheap bus service from Stratford station which works out faster than the train outside rush hours when most of the cheap flights are) Often you can pay more for the trains than you do for the flight!

 

Sandwiches and coffee/tea are available to purchase on board but do boost the cost of the trip. One hint with Ryanair is to check in very early as this gets you priotity at the gate. Head for the centre of the plane where the emergency exits are. That way you get huge legroom although the seats do not recline.

 

Check if you want to go by Easyjet as they are planning to introduce cabin only baggage on some flights.

[gerefan]

A few Words of Warning about these offers!

 

1. These flights are available, but early booking is essential,often a month or more, for the bottom fares...Not often available at weekends..

 

2. Quoted fares do NOT include Airport taxes. For example from London (Stansted) to Amsterdam (EasyJet) add an extra £16 to all return fares.

 

3.Ryanair DO NOT use major Airports. They fly to cheaper and lesser used regional Airports. For example their flights to Frankfurt, actually got to Frankfurt (Hahn). Read the small print very carefully. Hahn is their worst example and is 100 Km. (65 miles) from Frankfurt!!! One of their routes to Scandanavia (I think to Malmo) actually lands in a different country!! Dont fall for these tricks.

 

4. No refunds AT ALL. Miss it you loose your money. Sometimes they cancel flights (not often), and you are stuck.

 

Buses to Stansted.

I live nearby and, at the moment, the M11 (Motorway)is being repaired. Will take a few more months. Delays out of London can be 2 HOURS or more at peak times. Could make the journey time 3 hours by bus. Careful!!

 

Baggage

There is nothing on EasyJets web site to say you cannot take baggae that will be going in the hold. Allowance is still 20 Kgs.

I believe it is Ryanair who were putting this nonsence about. Their Chief Exec is actually quoted as saying that their fares are so low that you should buy the stuff you need when you get there! (and then presumably throw it away before you return??)

What they really want to do is use the hold for freight. Bas*ar*s.

 

All in all a very good opportunity,(I use tham a lot),but there are pitfalls.

 

Handy for Amsterdam, if anyone wants to go there anymore!

 

Gerefan

[londonbear]

The airport taxes vary according to the airports used and between the different companies so check but the principle is that you are very likely to pay more than the cost of the fare for them providing you book early or during special promotion periods.

 

Sorry about the mix-up between Ryanair and Easyjet on the baggage thing - I think it is not so much wanting to use the hold for freight as not wanting the time delay in loading and unloading to shorten their turn-round even more. I believe they are also cutting down on non-essential equipment to save weight and fuel so for example their latest jets may not have window blinds.

 

I did mention that the bus is quicker outside the rush hours and most flights are timed so you avoid them but your caution is noted.

 

Ryanair using the less used airports is not always to your detriment. In the case of Milan, they fly into the old Linate airport which is close to the centre of town. The main carriers use the new Malpensa Airport which is miles out In fact it is quicker now to go into Turin and get the train to Milan (which leaves from a station that is now part of the airport complex) than it is to get the bus into town from Malpensa.

 

Different conditions apply to different fares but the cheapest are non-refundable so if you miss the flight you loose your money. If they cancel a flight, you are usually put on the next available one or given a refund. although both are unlikely unless there are exceptional circumstances.

[londonbear]

Have just booked to go to Turin on Friday December, return the following Monday. Taking the cheaper of the two flights per day (very early morning and late evening) I paid £4.99 each way but with taxes etc the total was £33.42 with Ryanair or about $60 return. Wierdly one is a special "web fare" and the other is a "regular fare" with slightly different conditions attached.

 

I noticed another trick that Ryanair now has is to charge a handling fee for cards. Credit cards are charged more than debit cards.

 

 

By the way, non EU citizens should check on any visa requirements for each of the countries they want to go to - at one point France required visas when the UK did not. Also remember that different countries have different regulations over things like drugs so check if you do indulge and note that customs take a much stricter view than the local police. Generally you can take any amount of legal goods from one country to another within the EU providing it is for personal use but some restrictions on tobacco goods and alcohol still apply to imports from the recent accession countries.

 

One point not mentioned in the article is that the UK and Ireland that I know of, allow passengers to purchase tickets only with "charter airlines". These are specialist holiday airlines usually owned by a tour operator that operate flights usually during the summer holiday season but also on a more resticted basis through the year. These are not as cheap as the no-frills airlines but cheaper than the scheduled carriers. They also will sell you a return often for fixed periods of 7/10/14 days to correspond to package holidays. Popular destinations from the UK are Spain, Greece, Turkey, Italy and Cyprus (in more or less that order) but you can also get to Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt on this basis.

 

The main companies and web sites include:

 

Air 2000 http://www.firstchoice.co.uk/flights/

Britannia http://www.thomsonflights.com/bd/home?formAction=initiateFareSearch

Excel http://www.excelairways.com/HomePage.asp

Monarch http://www.monarch-airlines.com/index.asp

check this site for current list and to search for fares http://www.cheap-airline-tickets-directory.co.uk/airlines/charter.htm

[HotdadENYC]

Notwithstanding the proliferation of cheap flights WITHIN Europe, I would be very careful about engaging this form of travel.

 

I've been to Europe six (6) times within the last two years, and have always depended on tried and true US based airlines to get me there. DELTA and AA are, in my opinion, top notch. British Airways is a GREAT airline if you're going to London, and they even have some good deals to get from London to other locations.

 

I think the trick is to decide what area of Europe you want to visit, and plan excursions from there. If you are in London and/or Paris, you can get to either city by use of high-speed train that is not only economical, but also presents little of the safety concerns one might have with intra-European airlines.

 

If you are in Eastern Europe, and want to visit other areas, and are not engaged with a suitable escort in your arrival city, then rent a car. Driving in EE is not only easy, but its relaxing and you can add a good deal to your intra-Eastern Europe travel experience. Not to mention how many guys you might be able to meet along the way.

 

Prague, Budapest, Vienna and Warsaw are all good cities to start out from.

 

If you are in Greece and/or Turkey, then by all means, utilize a flight to get from one country to the other. It makes a lot of sense, economically and for the sake of time (unless you do a cruise).

 

I have not yet been to Italy so I can't adequately quote you any advice about that.

 

Catch me if any questions or need for more information.

[londonbear]

I am not sure what leads you to the deluded idea that low cost travel within Europe is unsafe. Similar and in some cases more stringent than US regulations apply.

 

These airlines frequently use very recent or new aircraft to maximise fuel efficiency and keep their costs down. Ryanair's fleet for example consists of 737-800 aircraft purchased from Boeing within the last 5 years or so. They are one of Boeing's largest commercial customers in terms of numbers of aircraft.

 

They achieve their low costs by filling planes, short turn-round times and using the planes for multiple trips each day. Unlike the US cheap airlines they do not include meals or drinks in the fare. Most use stairs to load and unload passengers as this saves time "parking" on turn-round. They make money by in-flight sales of refreshments, perfumes and souvenirs. If they travel outside the EU they also sell "duty-free" tobacco and alcohol.

 

By the way, the Charter fares I mentioned usually do include a meal and sometimes a film on the longer trips.

[gerefan]

..Sorry Hotdad, but I have to agree with Londonbear about the safety of the UK and West European Low Costs Airlines. There is nothing, operationally, unsafe about them. If by unsafe "intra-European" Airlines you specifically mean Russian, or ex Russian states, that may be a different matter...

 

Maybe you are refering to admin. matters?

 

You will loose your money if they went bust(they not ATOL covered)or if you miss your flight. If they cancel then you will be put on another flight (maybe on another day)! Altogether not really unsafe..

 

I suggest that you check VERY carefully about Car Hire in East Europe. East European Countries countries are not (to my knowledge)in the Schenengen (Sp?) agreement which means that you still have to go through Customs, passport control and may need a Visa etc. I doubt very much whether a car hired in one of these countries can be taken into another, or one registered in one can be left in another. Prague, Budapest, Vienna and Warsaw are all in different countries (East and West Europe).

 

Vienna, which is in Austria, might be a little miffed to hear that some think they are considered to be East Europe, and their Airlines are as safe as any in the world!

 

Have fun

 

Gerefan

[londonbear]

Gerefan, I think the inhabitants of Prague would be very quick to point out that their city is west of Vienna! Except possibly Hungary and Poland, no countries in the EU are now considered "Eastern Europe" by their citizens.

 

All the new EU Accession Countries - Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia ("Central" along with Austria), Cyprus, Malta ("Southern" along with Greece, Spain, Portuagal and parts of Italy) and the "Baltic States" of Estonia, Lavia and Lithuania - automatically became part of the Schengen area when the "EU15" enlarged in May. The UK and Ireland still have border and customs controls and are therefore not fully Shengen compliant and visas for those two countries do not necessarily apply to the rest of the EU so you should check. Poland has border checks with Lithuania to ensure that no Russians crossing to Kaliningrad enter the Union if they do not have a visa.

 

The Shengen area includes some non-EU countries like Iceland but once the transition period is over for the Accession countries, EU citizens will have the right to travel and work throughout the Union. Non EU citizens have freedom of travel once they get a visa from a full Shengen country but not residence or work. National requirements to register places of residence are taken care of when they check in at a hotel etc. Depending on the country and the length of stay, people living with friends or renting apartments may need to register at the local police station. In most countries it is a legal requirement to carry a passport or EU nation's Identity Card at all times. Although it is very unlikely that you will be required to produce it by the police in the street, you will need it for age-restricted establishments in many places.

 

Restrictions on using a rental car in more than one country will depend on the company's regulations. The purchased insurance will cover the legal absolute minimum in the "other" countries in the EU but the hirer should also verify that full cover is also extended. It is not a good idea to plan to hire in one country and leave it with the company in another. Although some allow this, a large repartiation fee can be charged.

 

Americans should get an International Driving Licence before leaving the US if they plan to rent. There are many regulations that are significantly different from most US states. Generally drink driving is treated far more seriously and the rule of thumb is to avoid alcohol completely if driving. Most countries require that, if available, seat belts are worn by everyone in the vehicle. Car drivers cannot drive large motorcycles or carry passengers on one unless their license indicates they are qualified. Read up on the rules beforehand and make yourself familiar with European road signs which again can be quite different from the USA. Most are graphics only, some of which are not immediately obvious. Remember that virtually all countries use Km/Hr for speed limits, not MPH. Fuel is sold in litres everywhere and is much more expensive than in the USA.

[Steven_Draker]

RE: Schengen

 

Londonbear, thank you for your contribution in this thread.

 

Reading your last post I'd like to underline a few points.

 

>All the new EU Accession Countries - Poland, Hungary, the

>Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia ("Central" along with

>Austria), Cyprus, Malta ("Southern" along with Greece, Spain,

>Portuagal and parts of Italy) and the "Baltic States" of

>Estonia, Lavia and Lithuania - automatically became part of

>the Schengen area when the "EU15" enlarged in May.

 

Being part of the European Union (currently 25 countries) does NOT imply directly being part of the Schengen zone (currently 15 countries) which are two different concepts.

 

http://www.geocities.com/stevendraker/enlargement.jpg

 

The 10 new accessing countries in May 2004 (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Malta and Cyprus) ARE NOT part of the Schengen zone (yet).

 

What is Schengen ?

 

The Schengen treaty ended internal border checkpoints and controls between the 7 countries which signed originally the treaty in 1985. Since then more countries have joined the Schengen treaty.

 

Consequently you may enter one country and travel freely throughout the Schengen zone. Internal border controls have disappeared; there are no or few stops and checks. This means that internal air, road and train travel are handled as domestic trips, similar to travel from one US state to another.

 

The 15 Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. All these countries except Norway and Iceland are European Union members.

 

Sorry for this lesson, that should be the ex-political science student in me.

Enjoy your day.

 

Steven Draker ~

[londonbear]

RE: Schengen

 

Thanks Steve, I was guilty of a bit of over simplification that led to a confusion in terms.

 

The Shengen Treaty is part of the "acquis" or body of law new accession countries are required to sign up to. They are not allowed the derogations that Ireland and the UK have but, as you remind me, full implementation has yet to happen so they are not formally counted as part of the "zone" yet.

 

Poland has already been required to move its main external border controls from the west to the eastern borders with Belarus and the Ukraine and as I indicated special arrangements are in place for the Baltic States to cope with the need for land transport between Kaliningrad and the main part of Russia.

 

There is a similar "bitty" situation in respect of tourist visas for those from outside the EU, hence my advice to check. Having said that, there is rarely any problem once you have a visa allowing you entry to the Union.

 

"Shengen" is a bit of a loose term and EU treaties add extra citizens' rights that tend to be lumped in to the term. It also only applies to the movement of people, not goods or services as is sometimes implied. Generally any legal item for personal consumption or use by an EU citizen moves without restriction. (In this cointext, it means you should be able to use that rental car!)

[latinolover]

RE: Schengen

 

Despite being part of the Schengen agreement, France, whilst closing its border controls, still has large number of "Dounes" customs Police who operate on the roads all over France, and will often pull you up in your car and pull it to pieces looking for God knows what, and be extremely aggressive and unpleasant at the same time. I have never experienced this in an other country in Europe, but in France I've been turned over 3 times in one week before now. They hang around in especially large numbers on the motorway near the Spanish border which eventually takes you down to Barcelona from southern France.

 

Ryanair, about 2 years ago, reduced their checked-in baggage allowance from 20kg to 15kg. A case with wheels and a handle weighs about 5kg so that only leaves 10kg for your stuff. Until a few months ago you could get away with anything under 19kg, but now I've found that for 17kg or more they will charge you £4.50 per kilo excess baggage. When I'm checking in I've noticed that about every third person in front of me has a long and unpleasant argument with them about this, so it certainly isn't speeding things up, any more than the fact that all the passengers are trying to take twice as much stuff into the cabin as they used to. The limit for cabin baggage is 10kg.

Easyjet allow 20kg for check in baggage, and no weight limit for cabin baggage but there is a size limit.

[Guest sloburo]

I wonder

why paying less, when it can be expensive!!!!!

[Funseeker 22]

Latinolover,

Not airline related but I went thru the same police/customs? driving pullover experience when I drove into Gibraltar from Spain for a few hours and then drove back into Spain on my way to Marbella.

Lights were flashing and no-one spoke English, altho my Spanish got me thru.Rental car was essentially taken apart but nothing found.

Discovered later that it was the ongoing hasstle battle between Spain and the U.K.

Suggest visitors park in Spain and walk over to Gibraltar.

[londonbear]

Funseeker, as you found out there can be great problems at the border between Spain and Gibraltar because of the sovereignty dispute. Sometimes even foot travel is disrupted.

 

Latiolover, I suspect the problems you encountered on the main route from Spain into France is that this is of course a major route for drugs imports so if you have a non-French number plate you can be stopped. There can also be checks if they have indications of Basque terrorists moving materiel about.

 

I should point out that the very low air fares are limited in number per aircraft so the price can go up nearer the flight date or at popular times - typically if there is a major sports event. Ryanair today announced increased half-year profits, up by 18% so they are doing something right!