Fin Fang Foom replies - at great length

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

The reason I haven't responded sooner is because I've been working and haven't had the time to focus on all the silliness that has been occurring since I left the room. Sometimes I feel like a substitute elementary school teacher: I leave the room for a few minutes and when I return, your desks are all over the place, there are spitballs on the windows and someone has thrown cockleburs into Jane Abbott's hair. NOW EVERYONE BACK TO THEIR SEATS! I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY!!!

 

First off, let me set a few things straight: I have no contempt for prostitutes. I don't look down on prostitutes. I don't think prostitutes are bad people. I don't think prostitutes should be held up for scorn or ridicule. So those of you who think I have been making a negative judgment about a prostitute's intrinsic worth, moral character or value as a human being, are wrong. Rather than trying to understand my underlying points, many of you have gotten all bent out of shape over the semantics.

 

What I HAVE been trying to do, amidst all the keening and hair-pulling, is to make some observations about those who chose to be prostitutes and the CONSEQUENCES of those choices.

 

So let me try to do this logically and start at the bottom and work my way up.

 

If someone wants to be a doctor, they are attracted to medicine and helping others. Accountants tend to enjoy math. Landscapers generally like the outdoors. Etc. To follow these examples into prostitution, the logical next step is that prostitutes enjoy sex. That's true. However, although almost everybody enjoys sex, few become prostitutes.

 

So what makes someone become a prostitute (for a day, a month, or a year)? I think if you ask anyone who does it, or has done it, they would say: "money". In fact, EASY FAST money. What other occupation is there that someone can make $150 in an hour that doesn't require training? Nothing I can think of.

 

Do I have a problem with easy fast money? Hell no! What I DO have a problem with is that the money becomes TOO easy and the guys who do it FOR A LIVING start to pay a price - a very big price.

 

When some guys (I'm not referring to the kids out at the piers) first start to do this, they generally (NOTE: I'm using the words "some guys" and "generally", I'm sure there are exceptions to just about any example I might give. So, if you're one of those "exceptions", please don't think I'm referring to you and start calling me names) do it because they have loaded up debts they can't quite pay off, their rent is due and they're broke, they're going to school and they need the extra money to pay tuition, or they're between jobs and have no savings. In these instances, they see prostitution as a financial bridge. I believe the majority of guys who get into prostitution fall into this category.

 

Now let's look at another guy who gets into prostitution.

 

There are SOME GUYS who come to NYC (I'm going to stick with NYC since that's where I live) to be gay. We all know who these guys are. They come to NYC not to find a job and build a life, but rather they come here so they can be "professional homosexuals". Everything in their lives revolve around the gay scene. These guys tend to get temp jobs and they have to move in with someone because they can't get a lease on an apartment since they don't have a regular job. Since part of the "gay scene" is taking a timeshare at a gym, in no time, they are all buff and beautiful. And once they are pretty, they can enter that hallowed pantheon of "the circuit". And we all know what the tie is that binds most of the guys on "the circuit" - drugs. (Let me pause here for a moment to remind my listeners this is an example of ONE type of guy - not all. So, before your skirt gets over your head, calm down and get back to your seat.) For those of you who live in a metropolitan area, you know the guy I'm talking about.

 

For some (NOT ALL) of these "professional homosexuals", they see prostitution as an easier and more profitable way to make money than temp work. Prostitution allows them the freedom to buy drugs, sleep in, go to the gym, hang out at "The Big Cup", go to the gym, weekend in The Pines, buy drugs, go to the gym, fly down to South Beach for The Black Party, buy drugs, go to the gym - basically do whatever they darn well please whenever they want. They're young, pretty, people tell them they're fabulous (and they believe it) and they hang out with guys just like them so there is comfort in the herd mentality. Are some of these guys really nice guys? Hell yeah. Are some of these guys assholes? Hell yeah. However, the one thing they all have in common is that they're lazy. I think a lot of us would love to have most of our days free so we could run around and do whatever we want whenever we wanted, but there's this little thing called "a life" that most of us aspire to. Acting like a teenager on summer vacation is great while you're a teenager, but if you still behave that way once you've graduated, in my opinion, you're a lazy bum. So sue me.

 

Then there's a third type of guy. There's the guy who has major self-esteem issues and feels that there's really nothing he's good at and his life is one big fuck-up and there's really no hope because he's always been that way. This guy has no direction in his life and he sees prostitution as the only option. He knows other guys who have done it and it's easy money, so why not? Is this guy lazy? Yeah. But the larger issue with this guy is that he's a mess and needs help. Laziness is the least of his worries!

 

Are there other types of guys and other scenarios for why they got into it? Yes. However, it's MY OPINION that these three groups make-up the MAJORITY of the guys who get into prostitution.

 

Many of you have attacked me for hypocrisy because I've hired guys. Well let me set the record straight on that and how I really feel about these guys.

 

The first guy: I say "good for you!". Make the money, pay off the debts, pay your rent, pay for your school, whatever, and then STOP. (More on that shortly)

 

The second guy: he's pretty but pretty is everywhere in Manhattan. I have very little patience for "fabulous", drug-taking, gym-obsessed, lazy, professional homosexuals. Are they BAD PEOPLE? No, but there are plenty of people who aren't "bad" that I have no time for. My advice to this guy is "get a life". (I'm sure THAT will stick in many of your craws.)

 

The third guy: I think he's pathetic - and I DON'T mean that in the pejorative sense. He needs help and prostitution is only going to make his problems worse.

 

So why have I hired guys? I've hired guys for the fun of it. Entertainment. Pleasure. There are guys whose pictures I've seen who I thought "Hell, I'll pay money for THAT!" So I did. No big deal. I know this will be hard for some of you to believe, but I don't have issues with sex. I think sex is great. And even more, I think sex is FUN. For whatever reason, I've never had issues with sex or being gay. I never went through the torture many of you did with coming to grips with being gay or sex. And because of that, I think I look at sex and prostitution a little more pragmatically than many of you.

 

Let's review a few things that I've said about prostitution and then I'll cover why I've said them.

 

I've said that prostitutes are lazy. To clarify this (for the bazillionth time), I am referring to those guys who have chosen to do this FOR A LIVING - not the guys in the first example. It is MY OPINION that this guy only wants to work a few hours a week, make money and "play" the rest of the time. In MY OPINION, this guy doesn't want to get on with the business of life. My OPINION might rub some of you the wrong way and if it does, you need to ask yourself: 1) does is annoy you because this is something you feel lots of people think about you and if they knew the whole story they wouldn't, or 2) does it bother you because it's true?

 

I've said that prostitution is nothing to be proud of and that in MY OPINION the guys who do it are ashamed that they do it and would rather be doing something else. I stand by MY OPINION.

 

I firmly believe that every one of us wants to lead a life that we can be proud of, that our parents can be proud of us for, and that the friends who really mean something to us can share in our pride. (Awkward sentence) It is MY OPINION that prostitution just doesn't cut it in that regard. I don't think anyone one of us would want to go to a family reunion and stand there with a drink in our hands and tell everyone: "What am I doing? Oh, I'm a prostitute." Call me crazy, but I think that would be humiliating. Maybe some of you say it wouldn't be humiliating for you. If that's the case, it's MY OPINION that you're lying to me and to yourself.

 

Are some of you not ashamed that you're a prostitute? It's possible. However, it's MY OPINION that you're deluding yourself. Feel free to call me names about this but it's simply MY OPINION. I've said before that everybody has something they would REALLY like to be doing and those guy who choose to do this rather than what they really would like to be doing aren't happy about it and deep down feel that they have failed and are ashamed that they've chosen to do this instead. Does this make them BAD PEOPLE? NO!

 

Now let's talk about what I've said some of the repercussions of prostitution are.

 

This tar baby began because a guy shared that doing this had wrecked his personal sex life and he wondered if anyone else had the some problem. It is not MY OPINION, but rather a FACT, that prostitution fucks with your sex life. Ask any guy who does it, and if they're honest, they'll tell you "yes". However, you don't need to ask anyone about it to logically come to that conclusion. If your sex life is "scheduled" it leaves little room for spontaneity. And if spontaneity is stifled over a long period of time, you're screwed (so to speak).

 

Then there's dating.

 

Could I please see a show of hands of the guys out there who would want to be in a relationship with someone who is a prostitute? You sir…..in the back….yes you….the man in the red shirt……I don't believe you. Let me give you a scenario: you come home from work and you're horny as hell and you want to fuck your boyfriend. He's in the shower and you go in and he looks great because he just came back from the gym and you want to bend him over right there and give it to him. When you try this, he says: "I have a client in an hour so if you want to fuck me, ok, but I can't cum. I've gotta save it for him." Once you'd be understanding - maybe twice, but the third time it happens it's gonna be a problem. A BIG problem. That's just ONE example, there are countless others. As an aside, Rick Munroe (more on him later) has pointed out that he's in a relationship. That's true, however, his lover is also a prostitute and they've been together forever. They an exception to the example and I'm sure there are others.

 

Then there's: what do you tell your family and friends you do for a living?

 

I've covered most of this so I will merely add that, for those who choose to do this "in secret", it creates an environment where you have to hide and lie about what you do. In MY OPINION, that's not a healthy way to live one's life.

 

Then there's the simple fact that most of the time, you're having sex with guys you find, at least, unattractive and, at worst, repellant. Are some of the clients hot? Yep. But they're the exception. Most clients are middle-aged and slightly overweight to down right fat. Think back to your youth, when you were in your 20's, were you attracted to middle-aged fat guys? I think it's safe to say that MOST of us weren't. Could we have done it with big guys? Yes. But given the choice between someone we weren't attracted to and someone we were…..you get the point. So, if someone is having sex with guys they aren't attracted to, in time, this is going to become a drain emotionally, sexually and psychologically. This is also not a healthy way to live one's life.

 

So, if I think prostitution is potentially such an awful thing, why do I post to this board? Why have hired guys? Isn't my patronage enabling them, thereby making me a hypocrite? I will address these questions in order.

 

A friend told me about this site. I thought it was kind of geniusy. The Saturday morning I looked up the site, I spent all morning reading all the reviews, checking out guys' sites and thinking it would be a hoot to hire one of these guys. We've all seen the pictures in the back of HX and wondered what these guys were like and this site gave me and others a peek into whether these guys were bogus or whatever. I know many guys who have done this, and who currently do, and I'm not one of those guys who thinks if he hires a guy it's the only way he can get laid by one of these guys. Without going into detail, physically, I am not a typical john. I don't have to hire pretty guys to fuck pretty guys. So, for those of you who picture some grotesque thing sitting in a dark apartment surrounded by cats, that's not me. I'm sorry to dispel that fantasy.

 

I post to this board because I find it interesting and fun to share thoughts, ideas, opinions, etc. Sometimes things get a little rowdy and that's fun. Sometimes I might say things that are a little blunt and it rubs some people the wrong way. But like I've said many times, this message board is not about the Junior League - it's about whores so I think some of the niceties can be overlooked.

 

Now for the hypocrisy issue.

 

To level a hypocrisy charge at me misses the point of why I say what I say. The message board discusses issues, experiences and ideas. Whether some of you like them or not, I come to the table with all three. I think my biggest problem with the whole prostitution thing is that it seems to be romanticized by many of you here - and the romanticizing is what I'm addressing - not the character of the people who choose to do it or the people who hire the guys.

 

I read the reviews every morning as part of my morning computer ritual and the common thread that runs through most of the reviews is that the guys are wonderful, the sex was amazing, it was all so special, I had a mind-blowing orgasm, on and on. All those things may be true. However, lost in all the faux Barbara Cartland narratives is the little fact that you paid money for it. It was fabulous and he was nice because you were PAYING him to be all those things. Although there can be exceptions, more than likely, it had nothing to do with you. The guy pretended, with the help of a little pill, to be turned on by you and gave you what you wanted for an hour - or more.

 

Some of these johns (Note: SOME!) convince themselves that these guys really like THEM and are turned on by THEM, when in fact, the escorts would rather be doing anything BUT this. I find this a little sad and I'm not a big fan of self-denial so occasionally, I'll make a point about this. Hopefully, it will spare someone setting themselves up for an emotional fall. Every escort out there (please note, for semi-equal time, I'm retiring the word "prostitute") can tell you horror stories of some john who keeps on calling and calling and calling because he thinks the escort was honestly into him when in fact the escort was repulsed by the john. However, the escort is nice and doesn't want to flat out tell the guy, nicely, to get lost. So instead the escort makes up stories of why "tonight is no good". These johns need a reality check.

 

(Note: Hang in there, I'm wrapping this up shortly - mainly because I'm exhausted)

 

Back to the romance of it all.

 

There are guys who see these "hot" guys who have lots of free time and are fabulous and they hear about how much money the guys make. Then they look up the guy's website and it's "fabulous" and he gets suckered into thinking that escorting really IS fabulous and he'd be "fabulous" too if people were paying money to have sex with him. But once he gets into it, he discovers that there's a big downside to it but he's gotten addicted to the quick cash and before he knows it, his life isn't quite as "fabulous" as he thought it was.

 

I, Fin Fang Foom, the purple underwear-wearing dragon, am I the one who speaks to this issue. It has made me very unpopular with many of you. Is it possible that, for sake of time, I have said things without fleshing out my larger point? That's very possible. Have I been trying to make guys feel bad about themselves? No. Have I been trying to make many of you take a hard look at exactly what it IS that you're doing FOR A LIVING? Yep. And by many of your responses, I seem to have hit a nerve. A BIG nerve. But you know what? So what. If you can't take a hard cold look at the choices you've made in your lives without resorting to name calling then you still have some growing up to do.

 

I know that I really got rough when I started calling escorts "whores", but kids, if you are selling your body for money then you're a whore. Plain and simple. And if you're not comfortable with that fact, then maybe you need to start SERIOUSLY thinking about doing something else FOR A LIVING. There is nothing "fabulous" about being a whore out on the piers and there's nothing "fabulous" about being a whore on Rentboy. It should be a SHORT-TERM means to a financial end and nothing more.

 

In MY OPINION.

 

In closing, I have to address this silly "sinister" nonsense.

 

Never, when I first started posting, did I think I would be raised to such mythical proportions but I have and honestly, I find it kind of hysterically funny (in a sick and twisted sort of way) but I think it's prudent that I nip the "sinister" stuff in the bud before it flowers. There's an old saying: "a lie goes round the world while truth is still putting on its boots".

 

I've decided to put on my Doc Martens.

 

This sinister stuff has to do with Rick Munroe.

 

If anyone remembers my earlier posts (and why WOULD anyone) I was always saying nice and funny things about Rick. The reason for that was because I'm a casual friend of Rick's and his boyfriend. I knew the two of them for several months before I learned, accidentally, that they were escorts. They never shared that fact with me so I never mentioned it since I felt they had a reason for not telling me - so why bring it up and possibly embarrass them? It was none of my business what they did for a living. In fact, Rick was vague the one time I did ask him what he did for a living (this was before I knew about the escorting) but I never pressed the issue because it wasn't germane to the conversation.

 

I thought it would be funny, since I knew him and liked him, to occasionally mention Rick and often he responded in kind. I would run into him every now and then and many times I thought I would tell him I was FFF but I always stopped because he still had never told me himself that he was an escort and I didn't want to possibly make him feel weird. So I kept my mouth shut.

 

As time went on, Rick sent me a message board email asking who I was and I thought it would be fun to string him on a little longer before I finally told him who I was. This was before my presence became controversial.

 

One day, I thought it would be funny to create an AOL screen name (I forget exactly what it was, something like "RickMunroeFan") and mention that I saw him at Fire Island that weekend with his boyfriend and didn't he look nice! Apparently, he didn't find this funny and it pissed him off.

 

Oops.

 

I decided that it was probably not the best time to reveal who I was while he was pissed.

 

More time passed.

 

I became controversial.

 

Rick sends me another message board email wanting to know who I was. I felt it prudent to stay anonymous since so many people were having hissy fits about me and I didn't want my phone ringing late at night with irate calls. I didn't think that Rick would "out" me but I thought the safest course would be to keep my mouth shut and wait for the storm to blow over. I refused Rick's request and he proceeded to excoriate me. I still like Rick, but I now see his nasty side and it's not pretty. Will I ever tell Rick who I am. Probably not. I think it's best to let this sleeping dog lie.

 

HooBoy has claimed that I have revealed personal information. I'm stumped as to what he's referring to. I posted the email I received from Scott "Don't Touch My Hair" Matthews (for which I believe I apologized), but other than that, I'm in the dark.

 

I am not some skulking villainous guy who hates escorts and is stalking Rick Munroe.

 

I am a man who enjoys debate and the exchange of ideas. I am a man who, on occasion, hires a guy and although it may have been fun, hopes the escort chooses to get out of the business before it begins to damage him. I am a man with opinions and I don't have qualms about sharing them. I am a man who has an uncommon ability to keep things in perspective and call them as I see them. Although I'm a really nice guy, I, like everyone else, am an imperfect man. But to most of you, I am, and always will be, Fin Fang Foom.

 

If you have actually taken the time to read all of this, I think you'd better go to your mailbox - I think your AARP card has arrived.

 

Humbly and exhaustibly yours,

 

FFF

[Traveller]

I have two things to say:

 

1. In the twentieth paragraph , fourth line down, seventh word in, for consistency, I believe that the "y" should have also been capitalized.

 

2. In the twenty-seventh paragraph, last line, between the fourth and fifth word in, I believe you forgot the word "are."

 

Later.

[Guest WetDream]

There are also several discrepancies in subject/verge agreement.

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

>There are also several discrepancies in

>subject/verge agreement.

 

I've never been very good with verges.

 

Gramatically yours,

 

FFF

[Guest exFratBoy]

FFF- You rock.

[Guest pickwick]

I have read the entire first post in this thread and I am still trying to figure out what the big controversy is. So this guy thinks some gay prostitutes are lazy, directionless dopeheads. He thinks some clients romanticize prostitutes and prostitution and allow their emotions to become involved in what is meant to be a mere pastime. Is either of these ideas particularly controversial? Somebody clue me in.

[Guest JT]

>So what makes someone become a

>prostitute (for a day, a

>month, or a year)? I

>think if you ask anyone

>who does it, or has

>done it, they would say:

>"money". In fact, EASY FAST

>money.

 

>Do I have a problem with

>easy fast money? Hell no!

>What I DO have a

>problem with is that the

>money becomes TOO easy and

>the guys who do it

>FOR A LIVING start to

>pay a price - a

>very big price.

 

 

Apparently not. You admit that you hire escorts. Accroding to your own logic, you're responsible for supplying the "EASY FAST money". If you feel that escorts pay a big price for what they do, why do you keep helping them to "hurt" themselves? If you feel so strongly that they are ashamed of what they do for a living, why would you keep hiring them to keep them feel that way? If you're serious about wishing them to stop escorting as soon as possible, why would you give them "EASY FAST money"? Is this hypocrisy? I'm sure everyone here could decide for himself.

 

JT

[Guest need2Btopped]

I'm a newbie, and do not know the whole FFF history here, but it seems to me that FFF's post -- particularly, though not exclusively, because he takes great pains to acknowledge there are exceptions, and that it all is just HIS OPINION -- is unanswerable.

 

I would humbly suggest, however, an overlooked fourth group: the highly skilled, highly professional courtesans, smart enough to strictly rope off their work from their personal lives. By definition, I believe, these are the guys -- few though they may be -- whose sex lives and heads are not fucked with by the fact they are in the sex service industry. Obviously, not many will have the discipline and the intellect (and the skill) to ever make it into this group. Pace FFF, I'd bet that the guys who make it to this rarified level likely do not feel shamed about their profession (though FFF's story about Rick Munroe's coyness concerning what he does for a living makes me wonder just how much I'd be willing to bet ;-)).

[Guest alanm]

I agree with almost all of Fin Fang Foom's comments. But, I'm not so sure about lazy. Do escorts get to sleep late? Yes!

Do they sometimes have a lot of free time? Yes! But, the really first-rate escorts spend a lot of time on things beyond

fucking and going to the gym. The best escorts are great at "constituate services," that is, answering and sending e-mails to regular clients. Also, they keep in touch with regulars by cell phone. Responding to inquiries from potential

new clients is also a must. And then there is the travel. Yes, It may seem glamourous to go to Miami Beach for a 3-day weekend. But, there is the travel involved (perhaps including driving 2/3 hours to the airport where the client is flying you from). Does it equal working on the assembly line at General Motors? But, I don't think lazy is accurate for a top escort.

[Guest WetDream]

Got me there, FFF.

 

Verba L'Abuse

[phage]

FFF,

 

The guys who were wounded by your use of "whore" are not likely to forgive or forget anytime soon, but I just gotta love a guy that can think and write so clearly. You OPINIONS may not be popular but they ARE fully thought through. Kudos for a disciplined mind.

 

The exFratBoy is right...you rock. Intelligence and confidence are sexy as Hell, and a little controversy is always kind of cool. In MY OPINION there is probably still a little bit of a sneer on that face of yours, but I can think of all kinds of fun ways to remove it. }>

[N.N.]

If it is 'lazy' to be paid a good hourly rate and work

substantially less than 40 hours a week, call me lazy too.

I have a professional job in the electronics industry,

and I've made a good living working less than full time.

I don't do drugs or go to circuit parties; I'm more inclined

to spend time with friends, read, write, play sports, and so

on--but I make no apology for being so 'lazy' as to only work

part time.

 

I've met escorts who were musicians, writers, etc. and used

escorting to pay the bills. Yes, they did it "for a living",

and maybe their passions (music, etc.) will never make them

good money. I give them credit for doing what it takes to

be able to devote time to their main interests. Various other

ways to pay the bills are themselves forms of prostitution:

a musician playing jingle dates, a novelist writing ad copy, etc.

[Guest]

I do agree with much of what FFF has said, although I think that sometimes he could be more tactful in how he says it. I have gotten to know a few escorts, and in some cases, escorting is the best they can do because of laziness or lack of social skills. Some just can't get up to an alarm clock (i.e. have admitted as such). One guy I met couldn't hold down a "legit" job because childhood family issues ended up giving him contempt for authority, so he needed a skill-less job where he could "be his own boss." How many reasonable jobs are there for people without necessarily any education, in which you can live entirely by your own rules and not really need to care what other people think?

Nevertheless, I do think there are some guys that have a very active sex drive who really can get turned on by just about anything (notice how I didn't even necessarily say anybody). One escort I hired was this steroid-using muscle-stud, and he had to get off 4 or 5 times a day, with or without someone else. For these guys, I think escorting might be a healthy outlet for their particular brain chemistry. I also think escorting can be a legitimate choice for someone to supplement income or bridge between jobs. A college student would do better seeing two clients for "quickies" than holding down a 16 hour a week job at the Student Union.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

FFF

 

You have posted two separate responses regarding your OPINION and your SINISTER side. I'll limit my response to the former although I appreciate your shedding some light on the latter.

 

Your OPINION post is an excellent response to the FFF criticism thread initiated by Zach. Excellent in that it clears up for everyone your OPINIONS in a lucid thoughtful manner without the seemingly vitriolic and condescending words (and attitude) as perceived by many readers. This is such a clear and reasonable statement (in words and tone) of your own views that it would have made (in parts or its entirety) for an excellent response(s) in place of your more controversial posts.

 

We all need to take note of the fact that in a read/write only environment fighting words evoke a fighting attitude either bestowed on the poster by the reader or assumed by the reader in response. (That does not mean that there is no room for tongue-in-cheek or biting wry HUMOR.) We have to assume responsibility for our words, although many choose not too. There are those who seek to communicate and those who seek to stir the pot. I take your point that you were attempting the former and Iook forward to your lucid and thoughtful contributions in that vein.

[CT Dick]

>I am a man who enjoys debate and the exchange of ideas.

>I am a man with opinions and I don't have qualms about >sharing them. I am a man who has an uncommon ability to >keep things in perspective and call them as I see them.

 

FFF, you are a man with well thought out opinions and this posting clearly stated them.

 

Unfortunately, you are also a man who is not always as evenhanded as you were here. Your keeping things in perspective and calling things as you see them too often involves inflamatory language that clouds the issues.

 

IMHO, if your future postings are as unemotional as this one, you will be adding significantly to the level of discussion on these boards, rather than heating them up.

 

Nicely written, for a long-winded substitute teacher.

 

Dick

[raife]

Mr Foom lays it all on the table...

 

I need to shut the fuck up and read more... The more I go back and read in the old archives, the more I realize it's all been said so much more eloquently several times before... We have 5 years of "getting real" behind us, lots of wisdom there for the picking...

 

Doug, Wood and others keep trying to make the points that Mr Foom conveys so well, but they keep getting lost in the snide invective and inflammatory sidetracks. It's funny how the place devides fairly evenly into two camps. Those like myself tend to romanticize the profession, and seem to wind up with escorts who also seem to love their work (even if it is only part time...) The other side feels that "it's a business" and doesn't let emotions get in the way of a lusty good time. It takes the seasoned eye of an Epigonos to strike the perfect balance:

 

[blockquote]So how do I feel about the escorts I hire? Simple, I love the attention I get, I have wonderful sex with them, they treat me with respect, I have a good time with them, and I pay them, what more can I want? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!![/blockquote]

[best hotel]

RE: Mr Foom lays it all on the table...

 

...i agree with the earlier comment about you, fff ....you do rock...amazingly articulate, honest, clear, and insightful post...i have also seen rick monroe's nasty side and know exactly what you mean...i always read your posts first, as they typically make me laugh out loud...please do another rentboy pic commentary soon....this board an use a few laughs...it has been rather dark cloud serious lately

[jackhammer91406]

RE: Mr Foom lays it all on the table...

 

Raife,

Thanks for finding this gem. The original post predates my participation here and I would never have seen it if you hadn't resurrected it.

 

Your point about the resources contained here is absolutely right on, as is the original post. I don't know anything about what led up to the original post, but can guess it was probably precipitated by events in an environment much like the one we are in today.

 

Another poster also pointed out something worth noting. We interact here in a written way only. There is no inflection, body language or any other non verbal communication method. People often misunderstand the intent of written word.

 

All in all, a good read to start my day.

Thanks to everyone involved.

[Rod Hagen]

FFF,

Nicely said/done.

 

In brief, dude if anyone seems to have oodles of free time it's you guys who spend all fucking day on fun, but frivolous, websites like this one. With a few exceptions, the vast majority of dedicated posters here, the ones who respond within seconds of a response to their response to a response, are non-escorts like Woodlawn et al....and you. The difference is I don't get paid for reading pretentious books at the gay starbukcs, or Big Cup when in NYC, or Mountain Biking, or Surfing, or glancing at Hooboy in the morning, or whatever I do during my admitedly copius free time, while many of you, on the other hand, get buttloads of $$ for jacking off all day on this and other web sites. I'm not disagreeing that I/we have much, maybe too much, free time, I'm just jealous that you guys get money for wasting time, and I don't get dick. Of course that's my own fault for leaving my profession, engineering/biology, nearly four years ago, to escort full time. Nevertheless, maybe just admit to the vast amount of time wasting all of you do too. Or don't.

 

As far as the not fucking the boyfriend because the escort is saving his load cliche; well, that's just not true. Think about it. If I've made say $400 (or $1500 back in the overnight days) during the lazy day (rememeber I am a professional prostitute with no day job) why on earth would I risk hurting my boyfriend's feelings by telling him, "sorry, I'm saving my cum for a 3am client"? I'd feed him my cum, got to sleep with him in my arms, and see a client at 11am the next day.

 

You might THINK you know more about escorting than you do. Your point is that escorting can be harmful for relationships, and you're right, but mostly because of a jealousy thing that has more to do with a splitting of intimacy. So you're right, but just not correct. No big deal.

 

In five years of escorting I've never suffered the stalker client who's fallen hopelessly in love with me. That may be because I'm a terrible person and nobody would ever care about me (right Donnie?) Based on the fact that my reviews indicate that people do care about me and enjoy me, I'm either an exception, or Most likely is that the myth of clients routinely falling in love with escorts and making life difficult for them is (or vice versa for that matter) is just that: largely a myth.

 

Can posters please drop the "I don't need to hire escorts because I'm hot enough to get guys on my own" pretense? We got it. You're hot. You're not desperate. But most importantly pretty much all guys can find all kinds of guys on their own, without paying, particularly on the left and right coasts and major cities. That's what the internet is for. Hiring is just more convenient because you "like to know what you are getting" as the cliche goes. But don't forget, it's convenient for everyone, "hot" or not. For example, it's not uncommon for escorts to hire other escorts, and so, if I may toot our own horns, and piss some of you off with my arrogance at the same time, I think a lot of us escorts are pretty fucking hot ourselves. :-) In other words, all types of people hire escorts because we're fun and easy. Let's stop trying to prove how aloof we are by routinely pulling the "I could get guys on my own, I just like the convenience..." Because what that really says is, "I'm already on the defensive about my reasons for hiring, so don't fuck w/me."

 

What really struck me about your post was how many times you felt compelled, understandably, to qualify what you've said. Part of this is because you've enjoyed the ego-boost that comes from the controversy of dropping "Whxre" rather than "escort" here and there, and so now everyone is poised to attack you (see I said "EVERYONE", which is of course, an exaggeration). But mostly, it's just because people are so reactionary, that when you say something they automatically assume you mean EVERYONE or EVERYTIME. Why don't people understand that when someone expresses a feeling that something is generally true, by definition that means they are allowing for the possibility of exceptions? That should go without saying. Sadly, most lack basic reasoning skills. Sad (not in the pejorative sense).

 

I'm a professional escort. Maybe I could have been more, maybe I will. But based on the number of people I've made happy, the fun and money I've had doing it, I certainly could have done a lot worse.

 

-RH

http://www.RodHagen.com

[Rick Munroe]

I can't believe I have to deal with this yet again because both FFF and I have put this nonsense behind us, but I guess I have to since "it's back." For anyone who was around at the time, feel free to skip this. I would do a search and find my original post about this, but I don't feel like going through 5,000 posts. And I would like FFF to know that I harbor no ill feelings towards him; the whole thing was silly and I have moved on. But since raife has bumped this back up to the top and since we have new members who have joined the board since 2001, I guess I have to reply. OK, here goes:

 

>If anyone remembers my earlier posts (and why WOULD anyone) I

>was always saying nice and funny things about Rick. The reason

>for that was because I'm a casual friend of Rick's and his

>boyfriend.

 

Actually, as I later discovered, FFF was an anonymous AOL hookup whose cock I sucked twice (actually, as I recall, the second time we just jerked off together). I never knew his real name and he never knew mine. Our "friendship" consisted of his instant-messaging me every so often to see if I wanted a repeat, which I did once. I had just started escorting, and that was probably one of the last times I did one of those AOL hook-ups. I eventually blocked him (and everyone else) from IM-ing me because I no longer had the time or the desire for that stuff.

 

>I knew the two of them for several months before I

>learned, accidentally, that they were escorts.

 

FFF "learned" that we were escorts because in our early ads, we used the same photos we'd used for AOL hookups, but with the faces cropped.

 

>They never

>shared that fact with me so I never mentioned it since I felt

>they had a reason for not telling me

 

That reason was because our conversations consisted of typical online chat like "What's up?" and "Feel like sucking some dick?" FFF knew nothing about us other than our address. When Derek (and others here on the message center) challenged FFF to tell us our real names through email, he refused, because he did not (and does not) know. All we knew (and know) of each other were our anonymous AOL screen names.

 

>I

>would run into him every now and then and many times I thought

>I would tell him I was FFF but I always stopped because he

>still had never told me himself that he was an escort and I

>didn't want to possibly make him feel weird. So I kept my

>mouth shut.

 

That is a lie because we never "ran into" each other, unless you consider an AOL instant message a "running into." FFF may have passed me on the street and recognized me (to himself), but that does not constitute "running into" someone.

 

>One day, I thought it would be funny to create an AOL screen

>name (I forget exactly what it was, something like

>"RickMunroeFan") and mention that I saw him at Fire Island

>that weekend with his boyfriend and didn't he look nice!

>Apparently, he didn't find this funny and it pissed him off.

 

No, it didn't piss me off; it creeped me out. There were more than just that one email about Fire Island...there were others, where FFF would tell me where he'd seen Derek & me that day, what we were wearing, where we lived, etc. There were also posts here on the message center where he'd taunt me with the info that he and I were friends who'd recently spoken to each other on the street (as I've said, a total lie) but that "clueless Rick" (his words) had no idea he was FFF. He also posted that he'd seen Derek and me at a Diana Ross concert, and at Fire Island, to let us know that he was still "watching" us. Whether the intention was to be funny or not, it was creepy. And yes, escorts do get stalked. Stalk: "to follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession." I'm sure he was just accidentally seeing us out and about, and not actually following us around, but the effect was the same, and it did disturb me at the time.

[raife]

Sorry Rick

 

I sincerely apologize Rick,

 

I didn't dredge this out for the second SINISTER part with the historical baggage re your relationship with FFF, I brought it out because it much more eloquently states the view that Doug and WL (and others) are constantly trying to get across.

 

I just thought I needed to take a step back, look at the big picture, and realize that there are very different kinds of people coming here, with very different takes on the whole scene, and if we take the time to converse without loading everything down with epithets, we really do have the chance to learn a lot while still having a good time.

 

I didn't pause to think that of course you guys had a history after this missive was posted, and I'm very sorry if I caused you any grief.

 

(but remember... on the Internet... nothing ever really goes away... We're recorded here in the [a href=http://www.capricorn-tech.com]Digital Ether[/a] for all Eternity )

 

Take care and stay your funny smart-assed self :*

[jackhammer91406]

Rick,

Ditto for me...what Raife said

[raife]

Reply to Rod

 

Bravo my Knight in Shining Armor...

 

But, Rod, now babe... please don't get too pissed at me when you discover that post you so eloquently responded to was over... er... 4 years old... *ducks*

 

But I brought it back for a purpose. To try and understand all sides and in a vain attempt to help increase the level of discourse around here.

 

Thank you for defending us romantic types that have have a halo-tinged view of the escorting profession. By what I've read of your writing so far, you seem to fall into my favorite escort category... rare breed very poorly represented on this MC... The Messenger of Joy whose stated purpose in life is to spread as much joy in whatever form to as much of Humanity as possible (well, male humanity, anyway...). I've had the great good fortune to happen upon a few of these esteemed individuals and at the risk of sounding like Barbara Cartland, they really took me to a Higher Place.

 

I got into the whole scene 27 years ago because of my [a href=http://babydb.male4malescorts.com/m4mdc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=25&topic_id=157&mesg_id=157&page=]fetish[/a] (and I'm only 46), and for the past few years I've been seeing the same small set of regular part-time guys who've indulged me way past the point of healthy balance, God bless 'em. I didn't know how good I've had it until I climbed out of my cocoon a month or so to try and replace one of my regulars who is moving away next month. Re-exposure to the escorting mainstream has been a splash of icy cold water to the face, torso and genitals, to say the least.

 

I'm coming around though, and the re-education has been most valuable.

 

We live in the same city & we've never met, but thanks for being such a cool all around guy & clarifying the real world of pro escorts.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Reply to Rod

 

>But, Rod, now babe... please don't get too pissed at me

>when you discover that post you so eloquently responded to was

>over... er... 4 years old... [font

>color=#FF3399]*ducks*[/font]

>

 

Oh good grief. How could I not notice the thread was resurected? Dumb. I don't even remember FFF being on this board 4 years ago. Jesus yiminee the years go by.

 

Well you certainly sound like someone I'm happy to have in my neighborhood.

 

Thank you very much for all the kind words. Now excuse me while I go flog myself (hey, you could help!)

 

-a humbler RH

[Txpaytoplay]

RE: Reply to Rod

 

FFF,

 

Excellent post....I like the way you get your point across.