For Buff Film Buffs

[Guest WetDream]

Yeah, the actors you and Will mentioned were/are early favorites with me. Mr. Power in "Captain from Castile" was a fixation. And watching the devine Cornel Wilde caughing up blood in "A Song to Remember" marked me for life. (Actually, this film and "Naughty Marietta" -- and nobody can claim that Nelson Eddy was buff, but maybe Jeanette MacDonald was -- were my favorite films when I was about six. Shows you what a wierd kid I was.)

 

P.S. Deej, I can't believe you quoted Popeye's tag line in claiming you don't have a perfect body! Didn't you eat enough spinach?

[Guest WetDream]

Yeah, the actors you and Will mentioned were/are early favorites with me. Mr. Power in "Captain from Castile" was a fixation. And watching the devine Cornel Wilde caughing up blood in "A Song to Remember" marked me for life. (Actually, this film and "Naughty Marietta" -- and nobody can claim that Nelson Eddy was buff, but maybe Jeanette MacDonald was -- were my favorite films when I was about six. Shows you what a wierd kid I was.)

 

P.S. Deej, I can't believe you quoted Popeye's tag line in claiming you don't have a perfect body! Didn't you eat enough spinach?

[Guest WetDream]

When did movie actors start getting so pumped up? I saw "Apocalypse Now Redux" (originally released in 1979) last night and, while there was lots of male flesh on view, there were no big bicepts, no six packs and no hard muscle butts. Now all the guys in films -- even those playing nerds or boys next door -- have bodies that don't look like the nerds and boys in the neighborhood I grew up in. I suspect that the body-building mania parallels gay men's rush to the gym in the aftermath of the A.I.D.S. epidemic (i.e., muscles equal positive). Any thoughts?

[Guest WetDream]

When did movie actors start getting so pumped up? I saw "Apocalypse Now Redux" (originally released in 1979) last night and, while there was lots of male flesh on view, there were no big bicepts, no six packs and no hard muscle butts. Now all the guys in films -- even those playing nerds or boys next door -- have bodies that don't look like the nerds and boys in the neighborhood I grew up in. I suspect that the body-building mania parallels gay men's rush to the gym in the aftermath of the A.I.D.S. epidemic (i.e., muscles equal positive). Any thoughts?

[+ deej]

>I suspect

>that the body-building mania parallels

>gay men's rush to the

>gym in the aftermath of

>the A.I.D.S. epidemic (i.e., muscles

>equal positive). Any thoughts?

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Travolta buffed up for the sequel to Saturday Night Fever, and that was what? 20 years ago?

 

Stallone buffed up for Rocky.

 

Christopher Reeve buffed WAY up for Superman.

 

It's always been going on, it's just that a lot of younger guys (gay AND straight) these days are staying more buff as part of their daily lives.

 

I've never associated muscles with Poz. Where did you get that impression? (Not being judgemental -- I truly am curious.)

[+ deej]

>I suspect

>that the body-building mania parallels

>gay men's rush to the

>gym in the aftermath of

>the A.I.D.S. epidemic (i.e., muscles

>equal positive). Any thoughts?

 

That's quite a stretch.

 

Travolta buffed up for the sequel to Saturday Night Fever, and that was what? 20 years ago?

 

Stallone buffed up for Rocky.

 

Christopher Reeve buffed WAY up for Superman.

 

It's always been going on, it's just that a lot of younger guys (gay AND straight) these days are staying more buff as part of their daily lives.

 

I've never associated muscles with Poz. Where did you get that impression? (Not being judgemental -- I truly am curious.)

[Will]

The most recent association of muscles with poz that I can remember was a very sensitive post by Rick Munroe several months ago. I don't remember what the thread was, but it was related to this one -- gymned versus natural bodies.

 

While it's true that some movie actors have always been buff -- think of Steve Reeves as Hercules, or Cornell Wilde or various Tarzans as far back as Johnny Weissmuller (whose body was trained in the swimming pool not the weight room) -- I think there's an interesting and important point here. It is now the rule, not the exception, for male stars' bodies to be developed along the lines of stereotypical gay ideals. In fact, it's my sense that the ultramasculine aesthetic in all its various styles was a creation of gay men in New York and San Francisco in the mid- to late-1970s and that it migrated into the mainstream in the 1980s. I can clearly remember when Calvin Klein ads were "obviously" gay because they bore the visual codes that one saw exclusively in gay publications. Now, of course, that "look" is the norm.

 

Why should one be surprised? Gay men have always been fashion trend-setters, as witness women's fashion, interior design, stage sets, and so on and on. Our own bodies are merely our latest focus. And, like all the other tastes we have invented and/or refined, it sells because it's gorgeous.

[Will]

The most recent association of muscles with poz that I can remember was a very sensitive post by Rick Munroe several months ago. I don't remember what the thread was, but it was related to this one -- gymned versus natural bodies.

 

While it's true that some movie actors have always been buff -- think of Steve Reeves as Hercules, or Cornell Wilde or various Tarzans as far back as Johnny Weissmuller (whose body was trained in the swimming pool not the weight room) -- I think there's an interesting and important point here. It is now the rule, not the exception, for male stars' bodies to be developed along the lines of stereotypical gay ideals. In fact, it's my sense that the ultramasculine aesthetic in all its various styles was a creation of gay men in New York and San Francisco in the mid- to late-1970s and that it migrated into the mainstream in the 1980s. I can clearly remember when Calvin Klein ads were "obviously" gay because they bore the visual codes that one saw exclusively in gay publications. Now, of course, that "look" is the norm.

 

Why should one be surprised? Gay men have always been fashion trend-setters, as witness women's fashion, interior design, stage sets, and so on and on. Our own bodies are merely our latest focus. And, like all the other tastes we have invented and/or refined, it sells because it's gorgeous.

[Guest WetDream]

Legitimate question, deej; I never find your posts judgmental. What I meant was now EVERY actor seems to have a gym-designed body -- not just a few that bulk up for a special part. Perhaps it is just the style now. But notice when watching reruns on the tv, that few actors in films of the 40s-80s were really buffed. (They certainly weren't flabby either.) I'm just wondering when the muscle trend really started.

 

And it does seem to me that gay men (again a huge percentage, not just a few) started really going to the gym shortly after the curse hit. Nowadays, many gays make a trip to the gym several times a week. This wasn't true (at least in my circle of friends) until the late 70s. This also coincides with the rise of A.I.D.S. Maybe I am conflating two things that are absolutely unrelated. I don't know. Maybe A.I.D.S. just raised everyone's health consciousness.

[Guest WetDream]

Legitimate question, deej; I never find your posts judgmental. What I meant was now EVERY actor seems to have a gym-designed body -- not just a few that bulk up for a special part. Perhaps it is just the style now. But notice when watching reruns on the tv, that few actors in films of the 40s-80s were really buffed. (They certainly weren't flabby either.) I'm just wondering when the muscle trend really started.

 

And it does seem to me that gay men (again a huge percentage, not just a few) started really going to the gym shortly after the curse hit. Nowadays, many gays make a trip to the gym several times a week. This wasn't true (at least in my circle of friends) until the late 70s. This also coincides with the rise of A.I.D.S. Maybe I am conflating two things that are absolutely unrelated. I don't know. Maybe A.I.D.S. just raised everyone's health consciousness.

[+ deej]

>Legitimate question, deej; I never find

>your posts judgmental.

 

Thank you, doll.

 

>What

>I meant was now EVERY

>actor seems to have a

>gym-designed body -- not just

>a few that bulk up

>for a special part.

>Perhaps it is just the

>style now. But notice

>when watching reruns on the

>tv, that few actors in

>films of the 40s-80s were

>really buffed. (They certainly

>weren't flabby either.) I'm

>just wondering when the muscle

>trend really started.

 

Oh, I don't know about that. Tyrone Powers was pretty doggone buffed in his early, swashbuckling, years. And as Will pointed out, Tarzans as far back as Johnny Weismuller were too.

 

It's not *really* a new thing, but I think what you're observing is a leaving from the health-conscious 80's and 90's.

 

If anything, it's a manifestation of the "hollywood ideal" being foisted on the public and the public buying into it.

 

This thought process is a slippery slope. If you follow it just a little, you get to bulemia/anorexia and other eating disorders in the name of achieving the "perfect body".

 

(For the record, I've never tried for the perfect body and certainly haven't achieved it and don't much care. I am who I am, dammit!)

[+ deej]

>Legitimate question, deej; I never find

>your posts judgmental.

 

Thank you, doll.

 

>What

>I meant was now EVERY

>actor seems to have a

>gym-designed body -- not just

>a few that bulk up

>for a special part.

>Perhaps it is just the

>style now. But notice

>when watching reruns on the

>tv, that few actors in

>films of the 40s-80s were

>really buffed. (They certainly

>weren't flabby either.) I'm

>just wondering when the muscle

>trend really started.

 

Oh, I don't know about that. Tyrone Powers was pretty doggone buffed in his early, swashbuckling, years. And as Will pointed out, Tarzans as far back as Johnny Weismuller were too.

 

It's not *really* a new thing, but I think what you're observing is a leaving from the health-conscious 80's and 90's.

 

If anything, it's a manifestation of the "hollywood ideal" being foisted on the public and the public buying into it.

 

This thought process is a slippery slope. If you follow it just a little, you get to bulemia/anorexia and other eating disorders in the name of achieving the "perfect body".

 

(For the record, I've never tried for the perfect body and certainly haven't achieved it and don't much care. I am who I am, dammit!)

[+ deej]

<chuckle>

 

Yep, I had my own early fixations too. Remember the older brother from "Flipper"? Burt Ward in "Batman"? Later we had Erik Estrada in "CHiPS" and Dirk Benedict/Richard Hatch in "Battlestar Galactica".

 

I've often wondered if those guys had any idea how many closeted young gays were drooling over them.

 

Didn't mean to quote Popeye. Didn't even realize I'd done it until you pointed it out. I eat plenty of spinach, and that's proably the problem. ;-) When I was young, I *liked* spinach. My mom always said I was a weird kid because I liked all the stuff kids aren't supposed to like.

[+ deej]

<chuckle>

 

Yep, I had my own early fixations too. Remember the older brother from "Flipper"? Burt Ward in "Batman"? Later we had Erik Estrada in "CHiPS" and Dirk Benedict/Richard Hatch in "Battlestar Galactica".

 

I've often wondered if those guys had any idea how many closeted young gays were drooling over them.

 

Didn't mean to quote Popeye. Didn't even realize I'd done it until you pointed it out. I eat plenty of spinach, and that's proably the problem. ;-) When I was young, I *liked* spinach. My mom always said I was a weird kid because I liked all the stuff kids aren't supposed to like.

[Guest Merlin]

I think the movies reflect a change in society. It results in large part from the greater available of weights and weight machines, and a greater knowledge of what can be accomplished with them. Gyms now exist within reach of most people, even in some very small towns. Most high schools have some weights. High school athletes begin using them to gain strength and weight. Look at old movies or news reels of the World War II era or before and you will be struck by how skinny and weak virtually everyone looks. I am sure those guys would have liked to have used weights if they had been available together with the knowledge of their potential.

[Guest Merlin]

I think the movies reflect a change in society. It results in large part from the greater available of weights and weight machines, and a greater knowledge of what can be accomplished with them. Gyms now exist within reach of most people, even in some very small towns. Most high schools have some weights. High school athletes begin using them to gain strength and weight. Look at old movies or news reels of the World War II era or before and you will be struck by how skinny and weak virtually everyone looks. I am sure those guys would have liked to have used weights if they had been available together with the knowledge of their potential.

[Guest ChicagoCorey]

I also think that society has changed in such a way that men -- straight and gay -- are now feeling pressured to measure up to a "beauty myth" ideal in a way that guys didn't care a lot about in the past. While women have always been held to some sort of ideal (though the ideal has changed), men, though ideals existed, didn't feel the pressure the same way. An increased mindset of "equality of the sexes" leads to men being judged more on their appearance and women feeling justified in making that judgment. As this increases on an individual level, it affects the way men -- again both gay and straight -- view themselves.

-------

[email protected]

get to know me/updated frequently

http://www.geocities.com/chicagocorey

[Guest ChicagoCorey]

I also think that society has changed in such a way that men -- straight and gay -- are now feeling pressured to measure up to a "beauty myth" ideal in a way that guys didn't care a lot about in the past. While women have always been held to some sort of ideal (though the ideal has changed), men, though ideals existed, didn't feel the pressure the same way. An increased mindset of "equality of the sexes" leads to men being judged more on their appearance and women feeling justified in making that judgment. As this increases on an individual level, it affects the way men -- again both gay and straight -- view themselves.

-------

[email protected]

get to know me/updated frequently

http://www.geocities.com/chicagocorey

[Guest scrtlovr]

Although I certainly love to look (fantasize) at a buff man on screen as much as anyone else, let's face it, all that happened is a leveling from the bottom. Starting with the early sixties, movie stars turned from godesses to sex objects (Raquel Welch, etc.) and in the past few years men have joined the ranks and turned into sex objects as well. It used to be that most actresses had to be beautiful in order to succeed (except for the likes of Bette or Joan). Men didn't have to (although Hollywood sure had its share of male beauties - Cary, Gary,Tyrone...) But you still had your Bogeys and Spencer Tracy, etc. Now, men and women are finally equal!! You'd better have a gorgeous bod and a face to go with it...or switch careers. Talent is purely incidental (can someone explain to me why people like Melanie Griffith or Keanu Reeves get work?)

[Guest scrtlovr]

Although I certainly love to look (fantasize) at a buff man on screen as much as anyone else, let's face it, all that happened is a leveling from the bottom. Starting with the early sixties, movie stars turned from godesses to sex objects (Raquel Welch, etc.) and in the past few years men have joined the ranks and turned into sex objects as well. It used to be that most actresses had to be beautiful in order to succeed (except for the likes of Bette or Joan). Men didn't have to (although Hollywood sure had its share of male beauties - Cary, Gary,Tyrone...) But you still had your Bogeys and Spencer Tracy, etc. Now, men and women are finally equal!! You'd better have a gorgeous bod and a face to go with it...or switch careers. Talent is purely incidental (can someone explain to me why people like Melanie Griffith or Keanu Reeves get work?)

[Boink]

I'm always amazed at what some of these guys can do TEMPORARILY to fill a roll. One of the most amazing examples is Ed Norton, who, while a great actor, has always struck me as skinny and pasty. But look how he transformed his body into the buffed skinhead in AMERICAN CITIZEN X. But after that - right back to his "normal" look. Same for Brenden Fraser in GEORGE OF THE JUNGLE, or Christian Bale in AMERICAN PSYCHO, Travolta in STAYIN' ALIVE, etc. Man, if I could whip myself into that kind of shape, I'd do everything I could to keep it that way!

[Boink]

I'm always amazed at what some of these guys can do TEMPORARILY to fill a roll. One of the most amazing examples is Ed Norton, who, while a great actor, has always struck me as skinny and pasty. But look how he transformed his body into the buffed skinhead in AMERICAN CITIZEN X. But after that - right back to his "normal" look. Same for Brenden Fraser in GEORGE OF THE JUNGLE, or Christian Bale in AMERICAN PSYCHO, Travolta in STAYIN' ALIVE, etc. Man, if I could whip myself into that kind of shape, I'd do everything I could to keep it that way!