Rentboy Hustlers Kirk/David New York

[ad rian]

I know this has been discussed on Topic 3835, but as a recent victim of the Kirk/Voltaire/now David of New York Hustler scam, I wonder what else can be done to put him and his brother Trevor/Darren out of business. It appears that despite the number of very bad reviews, they are still able to post pictures on Rentboy, charge money up front, run out on all their clients, and then brag about their scam in clubs around town. It appears that for these repeat offenders flags on their reviews are not enough. So far their playful prank appears profitable, but it could prove dangerous for either of them or some client one day. Is there a way to stop them? Does anyone know if Rentboy has a policy about not listing repeat offenders? What doHustlers like this do if one refuses to pay upfront? Does anyone have experience refusing to pay these two upfront? Is there a way to ambush them on an outcall, and give them a reason to think twice about continuing this scam? Just a thought!

[+ deej]

There's no regulatory agency controlling escorts and their practices. Not much can really be done except exposing them, which is exactly why this site started.

 

The folks at rentboy.com probably don't give a rat's ass if they have crooks advertising on their site as long as the bill gets paid. If memory serves, there's even a disclaimer somewhere on their site specifically denying any responsibility for what happens between escort and client. If there isn't, there should be.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Is there a way to ambush them on an outcall, and give them a reason

>to think twice about continuing this scam? Just a thought!

 

One thought does come to mind although I guess this would only work on outcalls to your home - don't think it would go over too well in a hotel..........

 

When they are ushered into your bedroom, they find that as well as the two of you - you also have a very large dog in attendance. Let him know that the dog is gentle, unless given a signal by you - and then all hell brakes loose. They might not be so flip about the money up front and zero performance if they thought their family jewels could be in danger.

 

This will probably never happen but it does give me some joy just thinking about it.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Kenny021]

Perhaps if Tony Soprano was hired to be a client of theirs, they would soon mend their ways...or better yet, have to find ANOTHER PROFESSION

[cocky]

I had hired Kirk/Voltaire etc.... in Toronto about 8 months ago - terrible experience - subsequently found this site and would not hire anyone without checking the M4M review - if no review, I figure they aren't worth it. I did give a bad review for Kirk/Voltaire - but didnt go into alot of the specifics - was concerned that if could figure out who wrote the review he would start harrassing me - he really was that strange. So, I guess the best policy would be to go ahead and use rentboy.com or another service, but then cross check with M4M review.

[ad rian]

So, I guess the best policy would be to go ahead

>and use rentboy.com or another service, but then cross check

>with M4M review.

 

I actually called him shortly afterwards and asked what that was all about. He had no reply except to say that "I was a nice man." I told him I would review him, and he did not seem phased. I noticed that in response to a very early review of his brother to a Hoo Boy all, there was a comment to the effect that an internet review would not effect their business. There routine is good. They change their name frequently so unless there is a way to search photos, they will continue to profit. My only fear is that at somepoint this turns ugly from them or someone else. Frankly, I would encourage you not to be afraid. They are making money at this. I was not the only one caught last weekend. His pics are down and he has probably gone home a richer man so people do need to speak out at the very least!

[Guest elwood]

ad rian

sorry you got ripped off.These guys and their ilk ( anthony holloway, adam#3, and the SF pretty boy twink clones, etc.) thrive on the fact that so many of us are suckers for a good looking guy and think of NOTHING else.I am constantly amazed at how, despite many bad reviews here, these guys still get calls. It's like DUH...! Obviously we all know.. good looks...a hot bod...they tell you absolutely NOTHING about a persons character.The reviews here can be helpful if you read them with some discernment. "First timers" are legitimately suspect unfortunately. But repeat bad reviews are usually quite on the mark.As for calling their bluff on money up front..i feel that most will leave and maybe if more people did this they would find some other way of making easy money.There is plenty of exploitation going on in the client/escort biz in both directions...but this type involves clients who make themselves easy marks.This site should help improve the odds...if CAREFULLY used.

[Guest RushNY]

Interesting postscript check out todays Sat 6/1 Rentboy of the Day on http://www.rentboy.com at least the people there haven't fallen.......

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Interesting postscript check out todays Sat 6/1 Rentboy of

>the Day on http://www.rentboy.com at least the people there haven't

>fallen.......

 

He sure do look purdy

 

Thunderbuns

[Blade9]

Why are these guys even allowed to advertise on Rentboy? Certainly they must be aware by now that they're scam artists? I find that truly appalling on the part of Rentboy.

[+ deej]

>Why are these guys even allowed to advertise on Rentboy?

 

Because they pay the bill. It's plain and simple. rentboy.com is not responsible for quality control for the guys who advertise there. Nor is Frontiers in LA or SF, Gay Chicago Mag in Chicago, HX in NYC, or HotSpots in FL.

 

They accept pay for advertising.

 

Perhaps you could complain to the postal service about postal fraud if you actually subscribe to one of those magazines. That can be pretty potent. Of course, you'll have to go on record as a buyer of hookers, and then you'll have to listen to them laughing. And the guy will only have to not live up his ad.

 

>Certainly they must be aware by now that they're scam

>artists? I find that truly appalling on the part of

>Rentboy.

 

If you dislike rentboy's policies, address complaints to king@rentboy.com. Kvetching here won't get you very far because they don't read this site and, as I said before, as long as the bill is paid they don't care. Nor should they, actually. They're not an agency.

[ad rian]

>If you dislike rentboy's policies, address complaints to

>king@rentboy.com. Kvetching here won't get you very far

>because they don't read this site and, as I said before, as

>long as the bill is paid they don't care. Nor should they,

>actually. They're not an agency.

 

I am not quite sure why you defend Rentboy so much. Do you own shares? Frankly, if one can offord escorts, one canm offord to lose a few times too. I see it like a trip to the Casino and set limits for myself. If I win, ok. If not, I know going in how much I am prepared to lose. The point you miss is that there is a dangerous element to what these guys do in terms of physical security and privacy. I would have thought that we all - clients and escorts alike - would have a stake in this. If somebody calls their bluff and it does not end well, then we can expect far more oversight/regulation of this internet-based commercial activity. Beware, my friend, these are the days of Ashcroft, not wine and roses!

[Guest regulation]

>I am not quite sure why you defend Rentboy so much. Do you

>own shares?

 

I don't think deej is defending Rentboy. He is simply pointing out what their own site says, which is that they do not take any responsibility for what happens if you contact one of the people advertised on their site. If they tell you that up front, it does not seem to make any sense to complain to them about what happened when you contacted one of those people.

 

>I would have

>thought that we all - clients and escorts alike - would have

>a stake in this. If somebody calls their bluff and it does

>not end well, then we can expect far more

>oversight/regulation of this internet-based commercial

>activity. Beware, my friend, these are the days of

>Ashcroft, not wine and roses!

 

Even if you succeeded in getting the Rentboy site shut down, I do not think that would stop the people you are complaining about.

 

I think the moral of this story is that those who think bad reviews on this site can end the career of a bad escort are obviously wrong. How much time and effort has Beware of Nick put into warning people about his namesake? And yet this character still manages to cheat people year after year. The same is true of Anthony Holloway and others. Elwood is correct, there seems to be an unlimited supply of men who go into this sort of thing uninformed or who are just plain gullible.

[alanalt]

>...then we can expect far more

>oversight/regulation of this internet-based commercial

>activity...

 

OK, let me preface by saying I'm not trying to be nasty, sarcastic or rude (I have been all those things at various times but right now I'm just genuinely puzzled). How can you expect more oversight/regulation of an activity that is (in your country, at least) basically illegal? I mean the thrust of complaint against these guys is that they aren't 'performing' (i.e. providing sex for money), so how are you expecting to regulate them to perform an activity that's against US law?

 

>...I am not quite sure why you defend Rentboy so much...

 

I'm sure deej needs no defending from me either, but I don't think it's 'defending' Rentboy to point out their policies or the simple fact that as an advertiser, their guiding principle is to make money for ads (just as a consumer's principle should be 'caveat emptor' -- let the buyer beware). There are a lot of escort advertising sites out there (more every day it seems) and to expect them to keep track of the 'winners' and 'losers' out there seems a tad unrealistic (to me, anyway), not to mention expensive.

 

>The point you miss is that there is a dangerous element to what these guys do in terms of physical security and privacy...

 

I'm sorry, but the point you seem to miss is that this element comes with the territory. I know I'm belabouring the point but when you engage in an illegal activity, you lose a lot of the law's protections...try suing a drug dealer for pushing bad stuff. There are, of course, ways you can reduce/mitigate your risk and this site can be an enormous help in that regard. However, if you decide to hire an unreviewed escort then you're taking a risk, but one should be aware that unlike a casino, you may be risking more than just money...

 

Just my $0.03 CDN (gotta love that exchange rate):-)

[Guest luha]

I think it is interesting now that when you click on his

picture, you can leave comments, and most of teh comments

i saw yesterday were of him being a rip-off.

 

However, I see that this only works when you are

'escort of the day.' (the comments, that is ) I wish they would

leave that option for all escorts.

[+ deej]

<<I am not quite sure why you defend Rentboy so much. Do you own shares?>>

 

No, I don't own shares. I'm trying to disabuse you of the notion that they are somehow responsible for what goes on between a client and one of their advertisers.

 

I *have* met the proprietors, and they seem dedicated to providing a good service TO ESCORTS. They do not exist for the benefit of clients, they exist for the benefit of escorts.

 

They are not an agency. They do not make bookings for you. They do not provide anything other than an ad which has been purchased by the escort. Thinking they're in any way responsible is silly.

 

Would you sue the NY Times because the Mr. Coffee you saw advertised there caused a fire that burned down your home?

[+ deej]

<<I think the moral of this story is that those who think bad reviews on this site can end the career of a bad escort are obviously wrong. >>

 

Maybe not end a career, but disturb the hell out of it. }>

 

These guys aren't changing names regularly for their health or because it's good advertising. They're relying on P.T. Barnum's slogan: There's a sucker born every minute. But if there wasn't some heat from somewhere they wouldn't be bothering.

 

I'll be honest with you. If I didn't know Kirk's reputation, I'd hire him in a heartbeat and become yet another victim. Thanks to this site, I *do* know his reputation and won't make that mistake. If we do nothing other than alerting the guys who visit this site, we've done our jobs.

[CT Dick]

>>Why are these guys even allowed to advertise on Rentboy?

>

>Because they pay the bill. It's plain and simple.

>rentboy.com is not responsible for quality control for the

>guys who advertise there. Nor is Frontiers in LA or SF, Gay

>Chicago Mag in Chicago, HX in NYC, or HotSpots in FL.

>

>If you dislike rentboy's policies, address complaints to

>king@rentboy.com. Kvetching here won't get you very far

 

Ad, THIS is the part of deej's posting that you should heed.

 

Dick

[ad rian]

If we do nothing other than alerting the

>guys who visit this site, we've done our jobs.

 

D'accord!

[ad rian]

How can

>you expect more oversight/regulation of an activity that is

>(in your country, at least) basically illegal? I mean the

>thrust of complaint against these guys is that they aren't

>'performing' (i.e. providing sex for money), so how are you

>expecting to regulate them to perform an activity that's

>against US law?

 

I was not advocating regulation, but expressing the opinion that if someone gets hurt, we can expect vce aquad stings over the Internet as already occurs in some Southern cities!

 

I know I'm belabouring

>the point but when you engage in an illegal activity, you

>lose a lot of the law's protections...try suing a drug

>dealer for pushing bad stuff. There are, of course, ways

>you can reduce/mitigate your risk and this site can be an

>enormous help in that regard.

 

Again, I am not seeking law's protection, but rather advocating self-regulation to prevent the intervention of law authorities if someone gets hurt.

[ad rian]

>I think it is interesting now that when you click on his

>picture, you can leave comments, and most of teh comments

>i saw yesterday were of him being a rip-off.

>

>However, I see that this only works when you are

>'escort of the day.' (the comments, that is ) I wish they

>would

>leave that option for all escorts.

 

I agree. I was travelling so I did not see the Rentboy escort of the day yesterday, but what I can report is that I just had two great experiences with guys from London Lads and they do have reviews that pop up with each escort. I guess that is my point. If agencies don't do that they should be encouraged to do so. I think that is a win-win position for escorts and clients; self-regulation as I said before. As many of us who express this to Rentboy or take our business elsewhere until they change, the better off we will all be, whether escorts or clients.

[Blade9]

My goodness. Lol! Talk about overreacting! Who said anything about a law suit? Who said anything about rewriting the basic fundamentals of capitalism? Geez, I had no idea I was going to touch such a raw nerve. I don't know what is really at issue here, but it certainly can't be my post. No where in it was there any "kvetching". It's called a personal observation and opinion. I do find it appalling that Rentboy continues to offer space to men who deliberately advertise for the purpose of extorting money, regardless of whether it is for illegal activity. I feel the same way about Frontiers. So? Would I (as a businessman not to mention a gay man) allow it on my website? Absolutely not. It has nothing to do with naivete, it's called ethics. That's it. Period. End of statement. Now please, feel free to whip yourselves into an unnecessary frenzy. Happy to help.

[Guest buttlvr]

Well since Kirk lives in Canada, if one could find out his real name you could stop him from coming to the States and practicing his "trade". Just tell the American Immigration Service annomously that this guy is ecorting in this country. I am sure they will look at him twice the next time he crosses the border.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Absolutely not. It has nothing to do with naivete, it's

>called ethics. That's it. Period. End of statement.

 

I agree 110% Nuf said!

 

Thunderbuns

[alanalt]

>Again, I am not seeking law's protection, but rather

>advocating self-regulation to prevent the intervention of

>law authorities if someone gets hurt.

 

It's a lovely idea and about as realistic as asking my local newspaper to vet the ads of anyone wanting to sell a used car/appliance/article in the classified ads. It's just not economical. If 'Rentboys' was an agency, rather than an advertiser, I could see your point, but they're not. They're selling space to escorts who want to advertise themselves. If you want feedback on an escort's performance, come to this site.

 

After all, for some strange reason Hooboy puts himself into dealing with some twisted implications of a feedback form, like:

1) What's to stop David/Kirk/nom du jour to post positive feedback to counter the negative?

2) What's to stop someone else from posting false feedback to revenge themself on a legitimate escort?

(and boy, I've noticed he sure catches flak when someone thinks he's gotten it wrong!)

 

If you expect Rentboy, American Male or any of these other advertising sites to duplicate Hooboy's work, you're dreaming in technicolor. If you choose to hire an escort who is not reviewed on this site, if you choose not to check up on him in the message boards here or elsewhere, then you're gambling. And yes, in this particular 'business' you may be gambling with more than money. If you don't like the risk, then don't do it!

 

Alan (believes in consumer research AND consumer responsibility:-) )