Post-Tony Fallout: SMASH announces it's closing June 22

[+ ApexNomad]

21 minutes ago, Ali Gator said:

What if it was a white actress cast as Effie or Deena in a revival of 'Dreamgirls' ? 

Effie and Deena are explicitly written as Black women. Their race is central to the story — it’s about Black artists navigating racism in the music industry during the Motown era. You can’t separate their identity from the plot. Casting white actresses in those roles would erase that cultural and historical context — it wouldn’t be nontraditional, it would be whitewashing.

In contrast, Gypsy isn’t a show about whiteness. Rose is not defined by race. She’s defined by ambition, control, delusion, and love. A Black actress in the role doesn’t erase the story’s meaning — it expands it. That’s the difference between representation and erasure.

Race matters in Dreamgirls. It does not define Gypsy. That’s the distinction.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Lea Salonga would have been an interesting replacement.

[d.anders]

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Broadway tickets are expensive — not everyone’s rushing to drop $250+ on a show they’ve seen revived half a dozen times.

A true and honest argument against investing in this idea.

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

The issue isn’t Audra or George Wolfe — it’s that Gypsy is old-school.

I disagree. Gypsy is old-school, but the fabulous score will live on forever, and fans never tire of hearing it sung well live. Mama Rose will always be a part in search of the next Broadway diva.

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

it doesn’t have the IP buzz or TikTok hype that fills theaters in 2025

With the right casting, it could break through that wall.

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Audra’s taking a risk — not indulging in vanity.

Risk and vanity are not mutually exclusive.

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

She’s trying to breathe fresh life into a classic that isn’t an automatic sell anymore.

Spoken like a true fan.

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

That’s a minefield of false equivalence

It's only a false equivalent because Broadway does not have a black equivalent musical to Gypsy.

4 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Yes, Gypsy Rose Lee was a real person

Please, say no more. To the millions of people who love this show, Gypsy is indeed a very real person, much like Fanny Brice's relationship to Funny Girl. Yes, we open-minded theater ticket buyers will support a black actress wanting to play these roles, because we understand fiction and theatrical invention. The production decision, however, is risky, not only for white acceptance, but also for black acceptance.

Had George Wolfe cast Jennifer Holiday or Jennifer Hudson, I would have run to purchased tickets, and I can no longer run.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

8 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Audra McDonald isn’t “that kind of star”? You mean the kind with 6 Tonys, a National Medal of Arts, and universal critical respect? She doesn’t need to prove anything. But Broadway still needs to catch up to her.

Funny how a white actress taking on Rose is brave or just right, but when it’s Audra — a literal Broadway legend with more Tonys than anyone alive — it’s suddenly a “vanity project.”

Agreed.  She's not a token, nor is she doing this as a vanity project.

If you've seen her do this revival, you know that.  She drops ALL vanity in this performance.  McDonald gets into the grit of Rose.  She's not afraid to be ugly....  And I liked seeing her in this way

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

57 minutes ago, d.anders said:

Had George Wolfe cast Jennifer Holiday or Jennifer Hudson, I would have run to purchased tickets, and I can no longer run.

You're kidding, right?  Both women can't act their way out of paper bags.

Holiday can't even sing like she used to.  She now uses a myriad of tricks to get those notes out.

And there's a good reason that Hudson didn't get a TONY nom for Color Purple. 

She was a bland, boring, sexless Shug.

Edited June 13 by BenjaminNicholas

[+ ApexNomad]

50 minutes ago, d.anders said:

A true and honest argument against investing in this idea.

I disagree. Gypsy is old-school, but the fabulous score will live on forever, and fans never tire of hearing it sung well live. Mama Rose will always be a part in search of the next Broadway diva.

With the right casting, it could break through that wall.

Risk and vanity are not mutually exclusive.

Spoken like a true fan.

It's only a false equivalent because Broadway does not have a black equivalent musical to Gypsy.

Please, say no more. To the millions of people who love this show, Gypsy is indeed a very real person, much like Fanny Brice's relationship to Funny Girl. Yes, we open-minded theater ticket buyers will support a black actress wanting to play these roles, because we understand fiction and theatrical invention. The production decision, however, is risky, not only for white acceptance, but also for black acceptance.

Had George Wolfe cast Jennifer Holiday or Jennifer Hudson, I would have run to purchased tickets, and I can no longer run.

I feel like such an old queen debating Gypsy on a Thursday night, but here we are.

First — we agree on something: Gypsy is a beloved show. The score is iconic, and the role of Rose will always draw attention.

But let’s be clear — you’re now saying the casting isn’t the issue as long as it’s a Black actress you personally prefer. That’s not about artistic vision or respect for the material. That’s taste posing as authority. And it underscores my point: what’s really being challenged here isn’t Audra’s talent or Rose’s history — it’s your comfort.

You said Gypsy is a “very real person” to audiences — and that’s fine. But the character of Mama Rose, as written, is not a historical reenactment. She’s a theatrical invention. A mythic figure. The same way Funny Girl plays fast and loose with Fanny Brice’s life. That dramatic elasticity — that freedom — is what allows reinterpretations to breathe.

You framed Audra’s casting as risky for both “white acceptance” and “Black acceptance.” But risky to whom? Whose approval are we centering when we assume a show’s success hinges on casting someone who flatters nostalgia? Audra McDonald has six Tonys and more range in her pinky than most performers could dream of. She doesn’t need anyone’s permission to play Rose. She is exactly the kind of actor this role demands — vocally, emotionally, and dramatically.

And when you say you would’ve “run to buy tickets if it were Jennifer Holliday or Jennifer Hudson,” that’s not an artistic objection. That’s a personal preference — and that’s fine. But preference isn’t principle. And it doesn’t override legitimacy.

At the end of the day, Gypsy doesn’t belong to one voice, one aesthetic, or one audience. If it can’t survive reinterpretation, maybe it isn’t as immortal as its fans want to believe.

[+ ApexNomad]

5 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

You're kidding, right?  Both women can't act their way out of paper bags.

Holiday can't even sing like she used to.  She now uses a myriad of tricks to get those notes out.

And there's a good reason that Hudson didn't get a TONY nom for Color Purple.  She was a bland, boring Shug.

Hudson was the worst actress to play Shug. And when she didn’t get the Tony nom, she left the show shortly thereafter. 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Just now, ApexNomad said:

Hudson was the worst actress to play Shug. And when she didn’t get the Tony nom, she left the show shortly thereafter. 

Yeah, her behavior will likely keep her from ever doing another Broadway show again.

When Heather Headley came in, it was the realization that she should have opened the show to begin with.

[+ ApexNomad]

1 minute ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Yeah, her behavior will likely keep her from ever doing another Broadway show again.

When Heather Headley came in, it was the realization that she should have opened the show to begin with.

Headley was amazing.

Hudson in The Color Purple is a textbook example of a vanity role.

[viewing ownly]

I'd pay to see the civil arguments you all are having on stage. Working title : "My Opinion! My Opinion!". Having never been to Broadway, do they sell popcorn in the lobby? Asking for a stomach. 

[d.anders]

5 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

She's not a token, nor is she doing this as a vanity project. She drops ALL vanity in this performance.  McDonald gets into the grit of Rose.  She's not afraid to be ugly.... 

By vanity project, I did not mean anything about Audra's look or appearance.

Google's AI definition of vanity project,
A vanity project is a project undertaken primarily for personal gratification, recognition, or to satisfy an ego, rather than for practical or beneficial reasons. It often involves excessive self-indulgence and may lack a strong commercial or functional justification.

This is what I meant.

5 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

You're kidding, right?  Both women can't act their way out of paper bags.

Oh, for those black performers, Oscars and Tonys don't matter. LOL.

Fandom. There simply is no telling a Madonna fan that Madonna can't sing or act. Patti LuPone had to find out the hard way. The minute you mention another actor's name in a discussion like this, you enter the personal bias rabbit hole. Not a problem. I enjoy mucking it up with fellow theater lovers.

Up to now, I've seen every famous version of Mama Rose. I've even seen several road versions from actors no one has heard of, and some of those were dynamite performances. I fully enjoyed Tyne Daly's Tony Award winning performance. It blew me away. But I did not love her singing. 

On paper, Audra McDonald wins all the 2025 revival arguments for a black interpretation of the show. This was not a Beanie Feldstein decision. I still think Audra was a bad bet (nothing to do with her acting talent), but I hope ticket sales prove me wrong. I hate to see most shows close before the investors are paid back. I also prefer actors to remain working for as long as possible.