Canada vs. America

[Guest adam]

Hello there, Canadians and Americans. I have some questions...I'm a foreign student currently studying in Vancouver, Canada.. I just need your opinions on which place is better, Canada (Toronto and Montreal) or USA (all its big cities) in terms of satisfying a gay mans sexual appetite...In movies, in magazines, x-rated videos, it seems like there's an abundance of wild American men but it makes me wonder how come all these American guys have to travel all the way to Toronto and Montreal just to get laid...

[Guest torjon]

CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Adam..they don't HAVE to! They choose to. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have some of the hottest escorts in the business, and those yankee bucks go a long way in Canada. (See another thread on THAT subject in the Lounge section here). I'm doing MY best to spread the word....a very tough job, but hey...! And by way Adam, if you're looking to play, you have one of the best of the best right there in your backyard...MATT OF VANCOUVER (check his reviews). This guy will give you living proof why so many Americans cross over the longest undefended border. Toronto is full of as yet undiscovered talent,and very gay friendly, and Montreal is seen as exotic by those outside Canada, and the French boys are a magnet to many. But it works both ways. Given the means, I'd be heading South fairly often to sample some of the great guys this site features. Unfortunately, my "boy budget" won't allow that privilege.

Canada and USA are unique, Adam. We often have a love-hate relationship but when all is said and done we're kissing cousins,(or is that f-----g cousins?) and happy to share the good things about our individual countries. Welcome to Canada, Adam.

[Boston Guy]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Yes, I'd agree. I was born and live in the US, but I've also spent a lot of time in Canada, for both work and pleasure.

 

I don't think the question can be properly phrased in terms of which country is "better", even when it comes down to something as limited as gay living.

 

Both countries have a long, proud and parallel history; both are among the world's oldest democracies now and are surely among the world's freest nations. This freedom, and the principles that define it, ultimately shape everything about these two societies, including the advantages and options open to gay men and women.

 

I'm not simply referring to sexual appetites, but the ability be out, to hold a job with relative freedom, to be relative safe from physical harm -- in short, to do most of the things we want to do with little fear of reprisal (except perhaps marry). We should not lose sight of the fact that this is not true in many places in the world today.

 

Our ability to post on this board with confidence that the police will not break down our door and arrest us for our activity is based in this same freedom.

 

The US and Canada have welcomed and embraced immigrants from all corners of the earth for two centuries now. They approach the assimilation of these new arrivals somewhat differently -- multiculturalism (Canada) vs. the melting pot (the US). Both approaches have been successful and both ultimately have the same goal: giving new residents and citizens the ability to integrate into the national society successfully. And it's been my personal observation that while there are some marked differences -- there really are -- there's also quite a lot of both happening in both countries, if for no other reason that both countries are very large and made up of many diverse communities, each of which finds their own way.

 

Which brings us to another salient point: both Canada and the US have managed, thankfully, to integrate communities across huge tracts of land into a successful nation. Both have been more or less stable for a long, long time and, Quebec aside (because it's my own feeling that the issue is subsiding), neither is facing any real threat to its identity or borders. We share the world's longest unprotected border. That's an amazing thing, when you stop to think about it. Two nations, based on a similar set of founding principles, with a 3,000-odd mile border, sharing peace, fighting together in war, respecting each other, allowing pretty much free access across the border for citizens of both countries, and doing this all these years. I think it's kind of unprecedented in human history.

 

We like to squabble, but we're definitely family. If someone threatened Canada militarily, I believe the US would be there to help as quickly as if the threat was to the US itself. And I believe the reverse would be true.

 

It would be nice to think that all of our alliances and pacts with all of our other allies would be as strong, and some would be (for example, with Britain). But, to the US, Canada is special. And, while Canadians often see us as a bunch of loud-mouthed louts, I don't think there's any real question but they see the relationship with the US as special, too.

 

And it's not just about geography. The relationship between the US and Mexico is not nearly as strong or as stable and it certainly is not based on the kind of common heritage and fundamental principals shared by the US and Canada.

 

None of which, of course, answers your question at all. Except that, perhaps it does, in a round-about way: both countries have vibrant cities with large gay populations. Both offer exciting diversions for gay people (and the straight ones, too!<G>). And neither is better; they are simply different.

 

If you go to New York and then to Montreal, you will find many cultural differences, driven not only by the national differences but also by Montreal's french heritage. It's an exciting city with a rich history. And so is New York. And if you then go to Chicago or Toronto, you will find two new cities that are different again and, in my eye, somewhat similar even though Chicago is larger. Vancouver is unique, in my eye, offering some of the best urban geography in the world. But it's hard to beat weather in LA or San Diego, much less Miami.

 

If you are living in Canada, you will be hit hard by the exchange rate when you cross the border, but there are ways for students to travel across the US and sample what it has to offer while spending relatively small amounts of money. I urge you to consider checking student resources on the web and, depending on your budget, you might want to look at hostels and other student housing, college and university-based resources, etc. I know students who have done extensive travel in the US on small budgets.

 

And while you might not hire a lot of escorts on a limited budget, if you are young and a student, you should be able to have a really fine time in any of the larger cities in either country. Just find the gay bars that are popular and go meet people. Tell them you are a visitor and ask what there is to do in their city.

 

Canadians and Americans tend to be proud of the places where they live and, once you get past the initial reserve people often show, they will very often be friendly and helpful. I would not be surprised if you do travel and ask for guidance if you were to find yourself the recipient of frequent invitations to join others for dinner, drinks, whatever.

 

Have fun. And if you go, let us know how the trip turns out.

[Bilbo]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Adam - Do you feel safe in telling us what country you are from? Would love to hear that and perhaps small diary entries from your travels?

I am from Texas (almost its own country and as far from Canada as you can get in the U.S.). Just yesterday a friend of mine was telling me that the American Northeast (Chicago especially I think he said) had better restaurants than Houston because they have real ethnic groups and so more diverse foods. I think that he was forgetting for the moment all of our Mexican and Tex-Mex eateries. And we do have a few small cafes featuring other things - possibly most notably Eastern and Indian. We have a number of Asian buffets but if you eat at them a lot, they are a bit like they all came out of the same brand of cans. So perhaps there is a lot to be said for the diversity of Canada rather than our American melting pot philosophy, which might extend into different kinds of men, too.

Maybe I'm just falling into "the grass is always greener" syndrom, which I despise when it means that there are Houstonians who never go to the theater here but make one or two trips a year to see theater in NYC. Yes, we are proud of our cities, but we have the nagging suspicion that yours are better.

Also, it seems to me that with the possible exception of trying to import porno (which laws are often used to block gay newspapers), the Canadian laws about gays are a bit more liberal than the American.

[Guest torjon]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Boston Guy, I am deeply moved by your incredibly thoughtful post...your insights and observations on our two great countries are about as good as it gets. You took this interesting post to a much higher level than me, and I hope it inspires lots more posts on the truly unique Canada-USA relationship. Wonderful to read, Boston...thank you, from a proud Canuck with some valued Boston roots as well. (And you're right...the Quebec situation has subsided greatly...to the great relief of us who love the WHOLE country and all it's diversity.)

[Guest adam]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Torjon- thank you for welcoming me in canada. I'm really enjoying it here. Tons of handsome men here...you can find them everywhere..starbucks, virgin megastore, shopping mall, nude beach, etc.

 

Bilbo- I'm from Asia. I'm half Thai and half British. I haven't travelled in any north american city yet but here in vancouver, I've been to bars. There are 3 gay bars in Vancouver. One of them features male strippers twice a week and they have different dancers every week. They don't have lap dancing at all. Once the dancer is done dancing, he disappears from the stage not to be seen anymore because they don't mingle with customers. The club pays them for each song and that's all.

 

The one that I like in terms of sighting good looking nude guys is the nude beach here. On a sunny day, you can expect to see tons of naked men in Wreck beach. There was a time when me and my canadian classmates saw a movie actor naked. I don't know him but according to my canadian classmates, he was from "Felicity".

 

Bilbo- I will be coming down to Remingtons this summer and will let you know of my first experience.

 

thanks

[Bilbo]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Thank you, Adam. It sounds like you're having fun!

[Guest assmaster]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Thank you all for this thread and your wonderful insights Boston. As a Canadian I am very proud of my birthplace. I now live in the US for business reasons but will retire back in Canada.

Even more to the Point...Canadian Boys Do it BEST. So there!(With the exception of my latest Honour Student from PITTsburgh)

[CT Dick]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Dear Boston Guy,

As a Canadophile, I thank you for the lovely essay on the US and Canada. It was beautiful and moving.

If I may presume to speak for my northern neighbors, we are both fortunate to be in such a mutually beneficial relationship and you expressed it magnificently.

[Boston Guy]

RE: CROSS BORDER SHOPPING

 

Thanks for the kind words, Torjon -- that was very nice of you. :-)

 

In recent years, I've made a fair number of trips to Canada, mostly for business but some strictly for pleasure as well. I've now been to every province although none of the territories. And I've found the people I've met both professionally and socially to be, for the most part, warm, engaging, quick to offer a helping hand and ready to offer friendship as well.

 

The sheer physical beauty of Canada is undeniable, from the icebergs floating by St. John's harbor in Newfoundland to the splendor of Vancouver, which is so striking that there are days when it still takes my breath away. I have often used Vancouver as an example of a city that has done it right when it comes to preserving access to the sea for the population -- something so many cities fail miserably at.

 

I sometimes wonder what we all have done to deserve to inherit such a splendid continent.

 

But beyond the physical beauty, I am quite fond, too, of a number of Canadian cities, especially Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City. My French is pretty bad, but I've never had problems getting around Montreal or even Quebec City. In Montreal, people will generally switch to English with me (perhaps in the hope of speeding the conversation along!). But even in Quebec City, where many people seem to possess little command of English, I have been treated with kindness and patience as I worked slowly through conversations.

 

And what a city Quebec City is -- especially for lovers! I don't think there is another North American city that can claim to be more romantic than Quebec City, especially the old city. Even those who speak no French at all would be well advised to visit, especially with a boyfriend or lover. And while the gay B&B's are nice, I think one should stay at the Chateau Frontenac at least on the first visit if it's available and in the budget. And if you go during the period from May to mid-October, you should visit the restaurant called L'Atre (The Hearth), on the Ile D'Orleans in the river just a few miles from Quebec City.

 

The restaurant is housed in a 1680's farmhouse with old-fashioned hand water pumps still located inside the restaurant. It's been restored accurately and carefully and the food is terrific. But as soon as you park your car and see the horse-drawn carriage coming across the fields to take you to the restaurant you will know that you are about to have a very romantic time indeed.

 

And of course Toronto is great and fun and it always feels to me like a little Chicago. I don't mean that in any way other than literally -- it feels like Chicago on a slightly smaller scale. I like both cities and I think they are both clean and fun and hospitable and open to visitors. I've spent Canadian Thanksgiving with friends in Toronto a couple of different times (it's fun to have two Thanksgivings in one year!) and been welcomed warmly into the homes of people I had never met before. It's the same kind of warmth and reserved openness shared by their neighbors to the south in the American midwest.

 

Edmonton, on the other hand, is just too cold for me. And it shuts down so early -- what do people do after 7:00 pm? I've been treated well professionally there, but haven't felt the same sense of warmth that I've found elsewhere. And it has been in Edmonton that I've heard the most "newfie" jokes -- jokes that have seemed to me to be putting down people I've found to be much warmer than the Edmontonites telling the jokes. Oh, well, Calgary does make up for Edmonton and Banff -- well, Banff is terrific.

 

I didn't mean for this to turn into a travelogue -- that just kind of happened as the words fell out while I'm sitting here drinking my first cup of coffee. But I've had so much fun in Canada that my memories of it are mostly wonderful.

 

It's so easy to be in Canada and to see all of the American stores and gas stations and signs and products and to jump to the conclusion that it's almost just another state. But that would be a mistake, for as much as we Americans do share with you Canadians, the fun is sometimes in learning and exploring the differences. And we are different, even as two brothers growing up in the same family can be very different.

 

We share the continent and I think we do a good job of it. But we approach culture and governance and social issues and a whole host of things in ways that are similar but different. As a proud American, there are times when I prefer the American solution. An example might be the nature of the constitutional underpinnings of our federal system, which I think is inherently more stable and perhaps will prove to be more able to withstand the passing time than the corresponding system in Canada. I often worry that the provinces already have too much power and seem to be gaining more. I really do like Canada and would very much like to see it stay together.

 

But there are also times when I think the Canadian solution is superior to the American one. An example here might be Canada's approach to environmental issues.

 

So 'vive la difference' (if I spelled that correctly :-)): we take strength from each other and enjoy what we both have to offer and are both the better for the presence of the other.