An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, and c...

[BuckyXTC]

If you find out that you are infected with a sexually transmitted disease, do you feel you have a moral obligation to let those you've been with know about it? As a client who has just discovered some troubling symptoms necessitating a trip to my local health clinic for tests and medication, it is my intent to contact any and all escorts I have seen in the past six months, as soon as I receive the test results.

[Boston Guy]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

Not having been in your shoes, I haven't had to face this question. However, I think you are taking the high road and congratulate you on doing so.

 

That said, six months might be way too long, depending upon what you may have contracted. Your physician can most likely give you a reasonable window of opportunity for infection which, for some SID's, will be quite short. I would think you might choose not to contact those outside of the reasonable window of infection since doing so would most likely alarm them for no good reason.

 

I'm sorry for your misfortune. This must be distressng to you.

 

BG

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

As any working member of the escort community, i feel it's an obligation to let your past & current clients know of any STDs~

 

I know that the truth hurts, but it's going to hurt quite a bit more in the longrun if your client is out there infecting other people unbeknownst to him. I would simply suck it up and let my guys know...

 

Bucky~ here's hoping things turn out for the best. I really appreciate you bringing this topic up, as it's something i've thought about before and wondered what others would do.

 

 

FYI, i'll send some of the ol' Irish luck your way

 

 

 

 

Warmest Always,

 

 

 

Benjamin Nicholas

[VaHawk]

You absolutely have a moral obligation to inform any sexual partner you have had, whether escort or nonescort, if you have the contact info. Why would you possibly feel otherwise?

[VaHawk]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>Not having been in your shoes, I haven't had to face this

>question. However, I think you are taking the high road and

>congratulate you on doing so.

 

Well, I have been there, and there is no "high road" involved, just the straight and narrow path of truth and honesty. Anyone who knows he is infected with a std, and doesn't inform any current or previous sexual partners would be a sorry individual indeed!

>

>That said, six months might be way too long, depending upon

>what you may have contracted. Your physician can most likely

>give you a reasonable window of opportunity for infection

>which, for some SID's, will be quite short. I would think you

>might choose not to contact those outside of the reasonable

>window of infection since doing so would most likely alarm

>them for no good reason.

 

Absolutely not!!!! You could be infected for months or longer before you had the test. How do you know when/who infected you? If you have the sexual partner's contact info, then damn it contact him! Is it embarassing? Absolutely! Will the other guys appreciate you letting them know to get tested? Once again ABSOLUTELY!

[VaHawk]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>As any working member of the escort community, i feel it's an

>obligation to let your past & current clients know of any

>STDs~

 

Well, this is a good attitude, but it should apply to everyone, not just escorts informing their clients.

>

> I know that the truth hurts, but it's going to hurt quite a

>bit more in the longrun if your client is out there infecting

>other people unbeknownst to him. I would simply suck it up

>and let my guys know...

 

Well it will not be unbenkownst for long. Believe me, if you have ever had an std, it won't take long to figure out something ain't right. Of course, you would let the guys know, because you are a real, caring person, and your feelings on this does not surprise me in the least.

>

> Bucky~ here's hoping things turn out for the best. I really

>appreciate you bringing this topic up, as it's something i've

>thought about before and wondered what others would do.

>

>

>FYI, i'll send some of the ol' Irish luck your way

 

 

Oh, please, if the Irish had any good luck they wouldn't have anything to cry in their beers about, now would they? They love to do that, you know? And yes, I feel free to state this, being 90% Irish.

 

In closing an std, such as syphilis, gonnorhea, crabs, etc. is certainly easily treatable and curable, as it isn't as if he found out he has AIDS. But you are a very caring and sweet guy to wish him luck, but in reality a standard std is nothing to sweat about or be embarrassed about or even to worry about.

[giovoni]

In case you're looking for quantity as well as the quality posts you've already gotten I'll just agree with everyone is saying that you're doing the right thing for yourself and for everyone you interact with.

 

Everyone, not just escorts and clients has a moral obligation to tell their partners about anything contagious that they may or may not have. In my experience I've included all illnesses in this and I'll cancel and reschedule apts. when I have a URI, sore throat, or anything I think my clients may have a potential to contract from me. I could probably work with most of these and not have people notice however most clients have to return to jobs and I would hate to think I've cost them productive time in their workplace. Some people aren't happy when I have to do this but I think it is in the best interests of clients to continue it.

 

Gio in Denver

http://Http://angelfire.com/co3/massgebygio

[Boston Guy]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

In general, I agree with you.

 

However, some STDs show symptoms very soon after infection. They don't sit around for six months before presenting themselves and we don't know what he contracted.

 

For example, if someone got crabs from someone else, I'm not sure I'd advise contacting every sexual partner for the last six months... Similarly, gonorrhea has a very short incubation period -- generally 2 to 7 days before symptoms show up. After speaking with a physician, I would certainly recommend telling all possible partners in a "window of opportunity". I'm just not sure I'd choose to go back six months.

 

On the other hand, HIV can lie dormant for a long time, as can syphilis and Hep B and Hep C. (Hep A usually -- but not always -- shows up in two to four weeks.) With these STDs, the six-month window may not even be long enough.

 

So all I was saying was that for any given STD, there's a reasonable window during which someone got infected. I would always advise a person to notify everyone with whom the person had sex during that window and possibly a little before. But choosing an arbitrary window of six months might not be as a good a way of going as identifying the incubation period for the specific STD contracted and then using that to determine what time period to use to contact other people.

 

BG

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

Ok, how about this. There's an escort who I introduced to escorting a few years ago. He found out he was POZ a year later. We had a major falling out when I found out that he wasn't informing clients and he'd had unsafe sex with at least 2 mutual clients. I told them that he was POZ. Yes, they made the decision to do something unsafe without asking his status. They'd unfortunately assumed that someone who was Positive would tell them. They both said that had they known he was POZ they'd never have hired him in the first place.

 

He hadn't been reviewed for a while and I'd hoped he'd quit escorting, but now I see that's not the case. So, the question is, was I right in informing our mutual clients of this escort's status and should I continue informing anyone who asks me about him?

 

JEFF

jeff4hire@hotmail.com

[BuckyXTC]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

Jeff:

 

I certainly support your sharing that information, especially when it comes to HIV.

 

In my situation, which potentially involves chlamydia and herpes......I found out from a mutual friend that the escort I had been with had both of these infections but wasn't letting clients know. The escort in question, as far as I know, is no longer escorting......at least not with an agency. If I learn otherwise, I'll be happy to provide details to anyone who wants to send me a private message or email requesting info.

 

At this stage, I'm hoping for the best. At least chlamydia can be knocked out with antibiotics. Herpes is another story.....but I've shown no symptoms and hoping I dodged that bullet.

 

While I know we all take some measure of risk, I do try to be cautious and safe. Just goes to show that even with caution, nothing is foolproof.

 

Thanks to all for your words of encouragement and support. I'm trying to remain upbeat until I have reason to be otherwise.

[VaHawk]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>They'd unfortunately assumed that someone who was Positive

>would tell them.

 

Why do people ever assume anything? As grown men, they should have taken responsibility for taking the basic cautions when engaging in sexual relations, especially with an escort who has multiple partners. Taking any kind of chance in this situation, is unfathomable given that it is your life at risk.

 

>They both said that had they known he was POZ

>they'd never have hired him in the first place.

 

Well I guess that sums up succinctly why he didn't say anything. Was this recently or years ago? With the treatments available today, and with the proper cautions and activities, I doubt having sex with someone who is positive, is an automatic sentence of infection on the other guy's part.

 

>So, the question is, was I right in informing our mutual clients of this escort's status and should I continue informing anyone who

>asks me about him?

 

I think you were right, if the mutual clients are regulars of yours or his, and I think you should inform anyone who asks you about him, as they are asking for your input. I don't think you should just announce it to everyone, unsolicited.

 

I also feel that this escort should be truthful, if anyone asks, and ideally would make that known in his advertisments. A lot of positive guys will only have sex with other positive guys, and that would most likely include clients in search of escorts.

[OneFinger]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>...do you feel you have a moral obligation to let those you've been with know about it?

 

In some states it is a legal obligation for you to inform past partners. I am aware of a couple of cases where people have been cited for failure to inform or cooperate with the health department on contact tracing.

 

Although not an STD, many homeless in my area have TB. Those who do NOT wear a protective mask in public have been rounded, arrested, and quaranteened for endangering others. This same tatic can be used on people who knowingly transmit an STD.

 

As previously stated, how far back you need to go depends on the specific disease and the window of opportunity.

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>Well I guess that sums up succinctly why he didn't say

>anything. Was this recently or years ago?

 

He found out he was POZ 3 years ago this summer.

 

>With the

>treatments available today, and with the proper cautions and

>activities, I doubt having sex with someone who is positive,

>is an automatic sentence of infection on the other guy's part.

 

Yes, but why shouldn't he offer up that information without being asked? I believe EVERYONE who's positive should inform ALL potential partners if they're positive, whether it's for money or for fun. I know why guys don't offer up the info, they either don't want to ruin their fun or in the case of this escort, he doesn't want to ruin his business. Either way, I think it's a very selfish attitude.

 

>I think you were right, if the mutual clients are regulars of

>yours or his, and I think you should inform anyone who asks

>you about him, as they are asking for your input. I don't

>think you should just announce it to everyone, unsolicited.

 

When I first found out he'd had unprotected sex, I was telling everyone. I thought he was a piece of shit for what he'd done and I didn't owe him anything. I told him that I believed one of the reasons HIV was spreading was because of assholes like him. I've also confronted a couple of POZ friends about their sexual practices and whether or not they inform their potential partners in advance. There's NO good reason NOT to tell that trumps a potential partner's right to know as far as I'm concerned. Part of being responsible about HIV is speaking up about attitudes like this, so many gay men don't and to me that's just condoning such behavior.

 

Obviously, I feel strongly about this. I've had 2 friends infected by men who KNEW they were positive at the time and said NOTHING! One died in '92 and the other is going on 10 years positive. IT's NOT just about putting a condom on, it's also about honesty and changing

attitudes.

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[Will]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

JeffOH is always among the first to chime in where there's an ethical question related to the escort business. Almost always, I find myself not only agreeing with him, but admiring the clarity and integrity of his thinking. He is a very bright man, as well as a highly moral one. So it is with this topic. He could write the Escorts' Ethics Manual ("The Hooker's Helper"?).

 

After all, nobody goes out and seeks for a communicable disease. So it's not his fault if he gets one; and in the escort business, things like crabs are just bound to happen every now and then. The ethical thing is to inform one's recent partners. As BG rightly said, the problem itself will determine whom to contact. But contact one must. The same goes for clients, by the way.

 

As regards HIV, in my opinion it should be a felony not to disclose an HIV+ diagnosis to potential sex partners. Period. There are plenty of ways to have great sex with somebody who's HIV+ without contracting it. But it's also a great way to murder hundreds, maybe even thousands, of unsuspecting people.

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

Thanks Will! There are some people who find it hard to believe that a prostitute could have any morals. After all, we're doing something many believe to be morally wrong. I don't give a shit what they think. I draw the line when it comes to a potentially life-threatening disease.

 

When it comes to HIV, most people would prefer to know in advance and be allowed to make up their own minds. And most would probably choose NOT to engage in sexual activities with someone who's positive, but they should have the info to make that decision. My friend who's positive 10 years now, was having sex with guys without informing them of his status. He told me he felt bad about it. I encouraged him to tell guys upfront. I told him that at least they'll respect his honesty and he'd feel better knowing he'd done the right thing. His attitude changed, he's now in a 4 year relationship with a guy who's negative. He told the boyfriend he was POZ on their first date.

 

I've had clients tell me upfront that they were positive. I really respected them for that and told them so. I truly believe that the incidence of HIV would be less if everyone who's positive could be as honest.

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[VaHawk]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>As regards HIV, in my opinion it should be a felony not to

>disclose an HIV+ diagnosis to potential sex partners. Period.

 

Absolutely! I vote that they should have to wear some kind of badge (how about a black triangle as the Nazis have the patent on the pink triangle)? How about finding some kind of isolated island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean to set up AIDS colonies a la the old leper colonies? Out of sight, out of mind, right, as it couldn't happen to anyone you care about? Or even better yet, test positive, and you should be instantly castrated as that would definitely curb the spread of AIDS from that individual. How about making it a felony to engage in uprotected sex with anyone? STUPIDITY should be pitied not rewarded with vengence.

 

> There are plenty of ways to have great sex with somebody

>who's HIV+ without contracting it. But it's also a great way

>to murder hundreds, maybe even thousands, of unsuspecting

>people.

 

I agree with having sex with somebody who is HIV+ and not contracting it as I stated in my earlier post. Murder, is a rather strong term, don't you think? What about all the people, who not being tested, unwilling spread the disease? Are they guilty of negligent homicide, involuntary manslaughter?

 

I for one, am sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their own actions! Is anyone forcing anyone else to have uprotected sex (not counting rape)?

[VaHawk]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>When it comes to HIV, most people would prefer to know in

>advance and be allowed to make up their own minds.

>And most >would probably choose NOT to engage in sexual activities with >someone who's positive, but they should have the info to make

>that decision.

 

Yes, I agree I definitely see that all the time in the clubs! Everyone is tweaked out, dancing to the dj's loud music, and fucking without condoms in the dark corners of the club. I am impressed when they demand proof positive of negativity?

 

>I really respected them for that and told them so.

 

But did you hook up with those clients? From what I can see from your posts, my bet would be that you did not!

 

>I truly believe that the incidence of HIV would be less if everyone

>who's positive could be as honest.

 

And perhaps those who are positive could be honest if they weren't dismissed out of hand and branded as felons as you and Will agree on? Intolerance of any kind is a negative force!

[giovoni]

In my opinion.......

 

When you have sex with someone, unless you're in a bathhouse with your ass up wanting loads put into you all night long, you're engaging in a trusting relationship with someone else. Maybe not for long, but for a brief period you are making one body out of two with the consent and cooperation of your partner. Usually there has been some sort of introductions and getting to know each other before you engage in the act. Usually both of you exchange enough information to know that you are attracted to each other. Part of that information should be enough to allow you're partner to make an informed decision about whether or not to have sex with you. This should include any condition you have or any substances you're on or like to be on while you have sex. If you have HIV you have an opportunity to do the right thing, to set yourself out in the eyes of your partner as an honest man. Many people think there is beauty in honesty since it's so very rare these days. Many people will be willing to be MORE intimate with you if you disclose something potentially damaging like an HIV+ status. When I have sex with someone that has told me their status I know I behave this way. I feel safer with someone that will tell me that THEY can kill me if I'm not careful.... I know if they have the courage and honesty to protect me from themselves I probably have less to worry about with them in other interactions.

 

However, it is also, as has been said over and over again, everyone's responsibility to look out for themselves and know that not everyone, probably a minority, of people are as honest as the best case scenario above. Everyone has to protect their own body and if a mistake and unsafe sex leads to a condition they don't want they really have no one to blame for that then themselves.

 

Having said that, it is perfectly reasonable to me for people to be disgusted with those who lie about things that can endanger their partners. This includes HIV status, any other STD's, or any other dangers that can be encountered during sex or other aspects of the relationship however brief it may be. It's also reasonable to hold people accountable for their own safety and to advise them not to assign blame for their lot on people who lie to them when a simple condom or other safety practice could have avoided their plight.

 

Gio in Denver

http://angelfire.com/co3/massagebygio

[Will]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

Steady on, Hawk. Read what I said, not what I didn't say.

 

I believe it should be a felony -- as are theft, fraud, and grand larceny -- not to disclose an HIV+ status to a potential sex partner. I feel that way about anyone who knowingly carries a potentially fatal infectious disease. It's not just an HIV thing for me.

 

Thus, I also believe: (1) that HIV+ people should not be segregated or stigmatized in any way; (2) that one's health is a private matter until and unless it might compromise the health of another person, at which point it becomes political in the literal sense of the word; and (3) that, in the face of imminent sexual intercourse, being forthcoming about one's HIV status is the most -- indeed, the only -- responsible action.

 

At the same time, I agree with everyone else that each person is responsible for his/her own risk-taking. But I don't think it's asking too much for someone to be able to assess that risk in light of the available facts.

 

Finally, no one could be accused of criminal intent if they are truly innocent of the knowledge that they are HIV+. As regards people who think they may be, but refuse to be tested, I have no firm opinion. Just because I have an opinion about the legality as well as morality of deliberate deception doesn't mean that I must have an opinion about the morality of willful ignorance.

 

Actually, this whole complex of situations regarding the ethics of being contagious has been anticipated in the famous case of the New York cook who carried tuberculosis. They called her Typhoid Mary. When she refused to stop exposing people to the bacillus, they sequestered her. To my way of thinking, it was the right thing to do.

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: An ethical question for escorts, escort agencies, a...

 

>But did you hook up with those clients? From what I can see

>from your posts, my bet would be that you did not!

 

And you'd lose that bet! I have a couple of clients who I know are positive and I've been seeing them for years. Don't you think married clients would prefer to know if the escort they're hiring is positive? Every one I've asked said they would prefer to know that.

 

>And perhaps those who are positive could be honest if they

>weren't dismissed out of hand and branded as felons as you and

>Will agree on? Intolerance of any kind is a negative force!

>

 

Lying by omission is more of a negative force in perpetuating the stigma attached to HIV. There's still no reason NOT to tell that trumps a potential sex partner's right to know. They wouldn't be branded as felons unless it was PROVEN that they KNEW they were positive and did NOT inform their (negative) sex partner(or lied about their status) and then proceeded to have unsafe sex with them.

Would there be a need for these laws if everyone was being honest?

I think not.

 

Tweaked out guys in clubs, bathhouses, aren't necessarily the ones I'm thinking about when I think about who'd like to know in advance. Many of these guys go by "If they don't ask, I don't tell" policy if they're positive. They don't want to ruin their good time. They're part of the problem.

 

They may have not been responsible about their own health, but someone who's positive can sure take some responsibility and help de-stigmatize HIV by being upfront and honest with ALL potential sex partners.

 

JEFF

jeff4men@hotmail.com

[chrismac]

While I certainly agree that each adult is ultimately responsible for their own health, and each risk taken may potentially end with catastrophic consequences, it is still beholden to the carrier of an infectious disease to be responsible as well. It doesn't fly that a carrier bears no accountability.

 

A locked car can still be stolen. Similarly, condom use is not a 100% guarantor against STDs (including HIV, which is an STD itself). Even SAFER sex can sometimes lead to unpleasant outcomes.

 

I don't think anyone here advocates stigmatizing people with HIV, or any other infectious disease. But it is clear to me that if one has knowledge they carry such an affliction, it comes with responsibility to one's sexual partners. There are diseases which can be passed through fairly "innocent" activities, such as mouth-to-mouth contact. Syphilis is one of them. One only needs to have an active mouth canker and kiss another with chapped lips to infect. Oral Herpes can be transmitted similarly. It is unrealistic and unfair to assume everyone has thorough knowledge of all the risks and methods of transmission if one has never had occasion to visit an STD clinic. Thus, someone with an STD certainly has responsibilities for the safety of others. And the law in many states agrees.

[jackhammer91406]

Blindsided

 

Bucky,

I have watched this thread develop and have tried to process my own perspective on this subject.

First, I am sorry you have been blindsided with this problem. It is a shame that the escort responsible didn't take his obligation seriously, but at the same time, we as clients must also be responsible for our own health and assume that every guy we are with (paid or not) presents a possible risk and we must act accordingly.

Having said that, I am surprised our resident moralist (Woodlawn) hasn't chimed in on what he would normally percieve as an oxymoron, that being a moral escort (or whore as he is prone to calling them).

I believe that all of the guys I have been with are moral people, and that it is possible to be both. I experienced the same situation you are in now some number of years ago. The one time I fell in love with a man, he told me a 1 1/2 years later as he was breaking up with me that he was going back to escorting (I never knew he had been one)and that he had herpes and venerial (sp?) warts. Thankfully I never experienced any symtoms from these and feel fortunate to have crawled away with only a broken heart. But his lack of candor and honesty on this point gave me quite a shock,

I admit I have been scarred in other ways over the whole involvement with him, but I read something the other day on someone's profile and it said something to the effect " If you allow sorrow and wounds to take hold from a broken relationship, it only proves your former partner was right about you". That has helped me alot.

Hope that you find your way through all of this and come out whole and free.

 

[woodlawn]

RE: Blindsided

 

>Having said that, I am surprised our resident moralist

>(Woodlawn) hasn't chimed in on what he would normally percieve

>as an oxymoron, that being a moral escort (or whore as he is

>prone to calling them).

 

Actually, I prefer "prostitutes."

 

I didn't "chime in" on the topic of this thread because I don't have anything to add to what has already been said about it. Apparently you don't either, since your post adds nothing to that discussion but merely repeats points already made by others.

 

On the topic you raise -- whether "moral escort" is an oxymoron -- I would say it is not. In theory it is possible for an escort to have a code of morality that is internally consistent and that he always strives to obey whether it suits his convenience to do so or not. I haven't actually encountered any escort who fits that description, but that doesn't mean none could exist.

[adriano46]

Bucky and others,

 

Some years ago I had a similar episode. I developed a strange sympton and then something like tiny warts etc... No need to go into the details but I knew pretty much from which escort this came and once I had the diagnosis from a friendly physician who also prescribed the right treatment, I then called my friend and informed him.

 

What somewhat put me off was his "Oh, is that so? Ho hum." reaction. Following this incident, until the symptom cleared up I would not let any escort perform any anal or oral sex with me... in fact any session with an escort was reduced (or refined???) to simply companionship and some very very vanilla stuff (although I admit kissing was still very much in but I was sure no infections or sores in the mouth).

 

On another track, probably my all-time favorite escort developed AIDS and called to tell me once he tested positive. We had never engaged in anything but safe sex over the years and since I was regularly tested for AIDS (as part of a health plan) I knew I was okay. Still my heart went out to this guy - and still does. I am not sure whether he called all of his former clients (he is retired now), but appreciate that he did call and tell me, and we have since spoken or exchanged e-mails over the time since he told me.

 

Bottom line, I feel BOTH the escort and the client have a duty to inform the other if such infections occur.

[BuckyXTC]

Update

 

Finally got all my test results back and happy to report that I have no sexually transmitted diseases of any kind. What a relief! Even though I've always practiced what I think everyone would consider to be "safe sex", this whole episode has has reminded me of the importance of covering all the bases. Thanks for all the kind words of support and well wishes.

 

BuckyXTC