Gay marriage ban passes in California?

[+ deej]

RE: Official position of the "No on Prop 8" organization

 

There's a line from "Hairspray" that applies. When Motormouth Maybelle learns about budding young love between a black boy and white girl she tells them they're facing "a whole lotta ugly coming at you from a never-ending parade of stupid."

 

We're there.

 

The CA constitution says the state cannot discriminate based on race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. Prop 8 mandates state discrimination based on gender. (It doesn't say *gay* marriage folks, it just mentions two genders!)

 

I can't see it withstanding legal challenge, but that challenge will take huge amounts of (wasted) time and cost huge amounts of money.

 

Although I'll admit it was fun to walk up to those smiling sheeple mommies waving their "yes on 8" signs and point out that they were campaigning for gender-based discrimination. Their resolve faltered considerably when they were forced to think. }(

[Guest PWIT]

>Supreme Court justices, who serve for life, ...

 

It has been awhile (almost 20 yrs) since I lived in CA, but I thought the CA supreme court judges had a term limit. Has this changed?

[Kevin Slater]

My bad; federal Supreme Court justices serve for life, California Supreme Court justices serve 12 year terms (which still inoculates them against the day-to-day whims of the public).

 

Kevin Slater

[alanalt]

Well, ariadne, I guess I'll take you at your word that you hate saying 'I told you so' but I do note that you wasted no time doing so...

 

I confess that I'm also not wild about unelected, unaccountable judges 'expanding' the scope of laws under the guise of 'interpreting' them. But, to be honest, court decisions only have limited power in these areas anyway. While courts can strike down or 'interpret' laws, the responsibility for writing them remains with elected legislators - as it should be. In other words, as important as some court decisions have been in regard to civil rights in the US or gay marriage in Canada, the lasting achievements only came when the Parliaments and Congresses took up the gauntlet cast down by the courts.

 

Nor do I see how gay couples are worse off today than they were before the court decision. While I'm naturally disappointed with Tuesday's result, the fact that a well-organized, incredibly well-financed campaign against gay marriage could only gain support of 52% of those who voted tells me that the gay community has made enormous progress in winning the 'hearts and minds' of voters and the challenge to win over that majority next time is much smaller now than it was when it was 60% or 70% who were opposed in the not-so-distant past. Today, there are a lot fewer Californian minds that have to be changed to support gay marriage than there were even a few years ago.

 

But it's true you won't change minds by calling the people who voted 'yes' on Prop 8 bigots and idiots (no matter how true that may be in some cases). Obama didn't win over Ohio and other 'red' states in 2000/2004 by going there and telling people what fools they were, he went there with a message that people could believe in and support. Doing the same thing between now and the next ballot initiative will require more work and may not be as 'fun' as sitting back and insulting our opponents, but it's a hell of a lot more effective...

 

Ariadne's right (ouch, that hurt) in pointing out that court decisions are less than effective if the underlying attitudes of society are at odds with them, but I think he's 'misunderestimating' the impact court decisions can have on challenging the status quo, bringing issues out into the public eye and helping to shift society's attitudes in the longer term.

 

In short, if we sit back and 'wait' for societal attitudes to change and for rights like marriage to be handed to us, it could take a long time. But if we agitate and work for change, through the courts, legislatures, plebiscites or whatever other peaceful methods we can find, real change can and will happen. It won't happen overnight all at once and we have to recognize that progress is not an inevitable ascent upwards. But we've come a long way in a few short years and while there may be some 'dips' in the path ahead, what happened with Prop 8 was hardly the equivalent of falling off a cliff!

[EXPAT]

Official statement 11-06 from the "No on 8" organization

 

Dear Friend,

 

We had hoped never to have to write this email.

 

Sadly, fueled by misinformation, distortions and lies, millions of voters went to the polls yesterday and said YES to bigotry, YES to discrimination, YES to second-class status for same-sex couples.

 

And while the election was close, and millions of votes still remain uncounted, it has become apparent that we lost.

 

There is no question this defeat is hard.

 

Thousands of people have poured their talents, their time, their resources and their hearts into this struggle for freedom and this fight to have their relationships treated equally. Much has been sacrificed in this struggle.

 

While we knew the odds for success were not with us, we believed Californians could be the first in the nation to defeat the injustice of discriminatory measures like Proposition 8.

 

And while victory is not ours this day, we know that because of the work done here, freedom, fairness and equality will be ours someday. Just look at how far we have come in a few decades.

 

Up until 1974 same-sex intimacy was a crime in California. There wasn't a single law recognizing the relationships of same-sex couples until 1984 -- passed by the Berkeley School District. San Francisco did not pass domestic-partner protections until 1990; the state of California followed in 2005. And in 2000, Proposition 22 passed with a 23% majority.

 

Today, we fought to retain our right to marry and millions of Californians stood with us. Over the course of this campaign everyday Californians and their friends, neighbors and families built a civil rights campaign unequalled in California history.

 

You raised more money than anyone believed possible for an LGBT civil rights campaign.You reached out to family and friends in record numbers -- helping hundreds of thousands of Californians understand what the LGBT civil rights struggle is really about.

 

You built the largest grassroots and volunteer network that has ever been built -- a coalition that will continue to fight until all people are equal.

 

And you made the case to the people of California and to the rest of the world that discrimination -- in any form -- is unfair and wrong.

 

We are humbled by the courage, dignity and commitment displayed by all who fought this historic battle.

 

Victory was not ours today. But the struggle for equality is not over.

 

Because of the struggle fought here in California -- fought so incredibly well by the people in this state who love freedom and justice -- our fight for full civil rights will continue.

 

Activist and writer Anne Lamott writes, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

 

We stand together, knowing... our dawn will come.