Patti LuPone Interview

[+ WilliamM]

Did Richard Rodgers write a musical for Ethel Merman, as Patti says. I didn't believe so.

 

 

 

Talk Oct. 21, 2019

 

By David Marchese

There are many pleasures to be had in watching Patti LuPone perform, particularly on a Broadway stage. There’s her powerful, flexible singing voice, undiminished at age 70. There’s her operatically expressive face, her sharply detailed characterizations. There’s also the plain fact that to see LuPone at maximum, commanding intensity — her default mode — is to see that most thrilling and increasingly rare of theatrical sights: a true diva. (And one who has endured a diva’s share of backstage drama.) “I knew at 4 years old where I was going and what I was going to do,” said LuPone, a two-time Tony Award winner who will be starring in a revival of Stephen Sondheim’s “Company” next year. She added with a snap, “And I didn’t think I was going to be in the chorus.”

 

There’s a bit of a paradox going on with Broadway musicals right now. On one hand, they seem to be in good shape, because shows like “Dear Evan Hansen” and “Frozen” are making so much money. But on the other hand, those shows are not really vehicles for traditional musical-theater stars like yourself.

“War Paint”1

1This musical about the rivalry between the cosmetics titans Helena Rubinstein and Elizabeth Arden played on Broadway for eight months in 2017. LuPone played Rubinstein, and Christine Ebersole played Arden. Both earned Tony nominations for best actress in a musical.

was that kind of show and struggled to find an audience. Does that at all make you wonder where you fit in the Broadway ecosystem these days? No. But some of those shows should be in Las Vegas and not on a Broadway stage. The thing really bugging me now about Broadway musicals is that they’re making me deaf. They’re all so damn loud. But you don’t know what’s going to hit. You don’t know what’s going to flop. I was disappointed that “War Paint” didn’t catch on, because it was beautiful, and Christine Ebersole and I played like gangbusters. How can you know why it didn’t hit? It could have been where the theater was located. It could have been because other musicals attracted people. So when you ask me how do I fit: I know that I have box-office draw, and I know that I’m relied on for it. In a way, that’s unfair. The pressure shouldn’t be on me to draw a crowd. The pressure should be on the producers.

 

There was a time on Broadway when having a theatrical star like Mary Martin or Ethel Merman in a show was a guarantee that it would play for at least a full season. Is that kind of star power a thing of the past?

 

No. They used to write for the stars, and they don’t anymore. Cole Porter and Richard Rodgers were writing for Ethel. So you know you had a good combination. But I don’t think it’s over. Last night, there was a line for the cast of “Betrayal,” especially for Charlie Cox and Tom Hiddleston. Hugh Jackman is going to come onstage for “The Music Man.”

 

But Hugh Jackman and Tom Hiddleston are movie stars who can draw an audience to their stage work. Ethel Merman and Mary Martin were Broadway stars. There’s a difference. O.K., you’re right. Unless you have some sort of broader visibility, it may be harder to pull an audience. I think I’m a product of that old line of musical-theater women, because I don’t have that other thing to bring people in. Some people may know me from

“Life Goes On”2

2LuPone played the mother on this ABC sitcom for four seasons, from 1989 to 1993.

or

“Steven Universe,”3

3This sci-fi-adventure animated series has aired on the Cartoon Network since 2013. LuPone provides the voice for the character Yellow Diamond.

but most know me mostly from musicals. Actually, they know me most from the commercial for

“Evita.”4

4LuPone's breakout role was as Evita Peron in the first Broadway production of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice's musical in 1979. She won a Tony for her work.

 

 

 

Patti LuPone in the Broadway production of ‘‘Evita’’ in 1979. Photograph by Martha Swope, from Billy Rose Theater Division, the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts

Which was a good commercial. Can I ask you a random “Evita” question? Why does Evita sing “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina” when she does? Isn’t everyone happy for her at that point in the show? I don’t get the narrative logic. I thought the same thing. I was going, “What the hell is this song about?” I understand exactly what you’re saying. I never wanted to do “Evita,” because it was the most bizarre music I’d ever heard. You’re raised on Rodgers and Hammerstein, Meredith Willson, Lerner and Loewe, and then you hear that? I heard the “Evita” concept album, and I went, “Ow, my ear.”

Did you read

Andrew Lloyd Webber’s memoir?5

5"Unmasked: A Memoir," published in 2018.

No. Am I in it?

 

Oh, yeah. Oh, dear.

He rehashed

the expected stuff.6

6Webber and LuPone had a serious falling-out as a result of her being let go from the production of the 1993 musical "Sunset Boulevard" — and replaced by Glenn Close — before the show's move from London to Los Angeles and then to New York

He also made a point of criticizing your diction.

John Houseman7

7The actor and producer was also the founding director of the drama division at the Juilliard School. LuPone was at student in the school's first graduating drama class. She then worked with Houseman in the Acting Company’s repertory troupe, of which he was a founder. Houseman died in 1988.

used to call me “flannel mouth.” You don’t know, when you’re in the moment, that you’re not enunciating. As an audience member, I can understand the problem. I saw “The Iceman Cometh.” I did not understand a word those guys were saying. I’ve seen a lot of theater where I don’t understand what the actors are saying, because they’re forgetting that they need to project. They need to enunciate. In some of my performances, I was oblivious to that; I was busy emoting. Apparently, when I was doing “Three Sisters,” John Houseman wanted to yell at me about my diction. They kept him away from me, until he literally strangled me.

 

 

 

John Houseman and Patti LuPone (both front and center) with members of “The Acting Company” in 1975. Jack Mitchell/Getty Images

Literally? Literally put his hands around my throat and said, “I want to beat you black and blue until you’re bloody all over and you have bandages all over your face.” And I’m going, Well, that’s bizarre. Then I just went to pieces. But I’m an emotional, organic actor, and that gets in the way of me technically speaking clearly. So the fact that criticism of my diction follows me around makes total sense. Was Andrew Lloyd Webber talking about “Sunset Boulevard”?

He was talking about “Evita.” How could he talk about “Evita”? The whole thing is sung. He’s a jerk. He’s a sad sack. He is the definition of sad sack.

Do you like any of his music? I thought “Evita” was the best thing he and Tim Rice did. But the rest of it is schmaltz.

We talked about how what’s popular on Broadway has changed. But I’m wondering, too, if you’ve seen any differences between your generation of performers and younger generations? Yes. I am blown away by the talent onstage in New York, but I see too many actors relying on microphones. They do not know how to fill a house with their voice, and therefore their presence. That’s bad. And so is when somebody doesn’t know the history of theater, or who Marlon Brando or Shirley MacLaine or Chita Rivera are. It’s like: What are you doing this for? Are you doing it because it’s a time-honored profession? A necessary profession for society? Or are you doing it because you want to be famous and rich?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/21/magazine/patti-lupone-broadway-company.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

Compete interview at link

 

 

 

 

L

Edited October 21, 2019 by WilliamM

[+ WilliamM]

 

 

 

 

I am surprised Patti LuPone thought believed Merman could not act. Not even in "Gypsy"?

[+ sync]

A voice trainer told me that, while some may not have cared for the sound of Ethel Merman's singing, her vocal production technique was flawless.

[+ WilliamM]

A voice trainer told me that, while some may not have cared for the sound of Ethel Merman's singing, her vocal production technique was flawless.

 

Merman often said she never had voice lessons. Both Merman and Martin appeared in Cole Porter musicals. Martin in Rodgers and Hammerstein Broadway shows.

[+ WilliamM]

Merman and Martin never worked togetlher n a Broadway Musical. But, they often appeared at the same benefit concerts and Television shows.

 

Martin is known mostly now for "Peter Pan" on Broadway and several live shows in the 1950s and a tape version from 1960.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Martin and Pinza in "South Pacific"

Edited October 21, 2019 by WilliamM

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I am surprised Patti LuPone thought believed Merman could not act. Not even in "Gypsy"?

 

Her acting was very broad. She certainly didn't have the nuance that Tyne Daly did when she took on Rose.

 

Merman had a distinct sound: It was her trademark and it worked. Same went for Carol Channing, Liza Minnelli, Rex Harrison and Gwen Verdon.

 

Broadway today might be better trained, but it's a blurry collection of bland leading players.

[+ WilliamM]

Her acting was very broad. She certainly didn't have the nuance that Tyne Daly did when she took on Rose.

 

Merman had a distinct sound: It was her trademark and it worked. Same went for Carol Channing, Liza Minnelli, Rex Harrison and Gwen Verdon.

 

Broadway today might be better trained, but it's a blurry collection of bland leading players.

 

Ethel Merman's acting in movies and Television is broad, but not in "Gypsy."

 

I saw Merman and Daly in "Gypsy" and I strongly disagree with your characterize of the two performances.

 

Read the reviews when the musical opened in 1959.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Ethel Merman's acting in movies and Television is broad, but not in "Gypsy."

 

I saw Merman and Daly in "Gypsy" and I strongly disagree with your characterize of the two performances.

 

Read the reviews when the musical opened in 1959.

 

Reviews are only one journalist's opinion. While I didn't see Merm, as she was well before my time, I did see Tyne as a kid.

 

Frankly, in my opinion, LuPone beat the shit out of all of them when she did the last revival.

 

We can agree to disagree. That's the wonderful thing about art

[+ WilliamM]

Reviews are only one journalist's opinion. While I didn't see Merm, as she was well before my time, I did see Tyne as a kid.

 

Frankly, in my opinion, LuPone beat the shit out of all of them when she did the last revival.

 

We can agree to disagree. That's the wonderful thing about art

 

Benjamin, New York had about a dozen newspapers in 1959.

 

I was young myself back then, barely knew who Merman was until I listened to the cast album.

 

Merman stayed with the musical in New York for two years and then toured with "Gypsy" for another year.

It was the first time she ever tried such a long national tour. And then she turned down "Hello, Dolly."

Edited October 22, 2019 by WilliamM

[+ WilliamM]

Her acting was very broad. She certainly didn't have the nuance that Tyne Daly did when she took on Rose.

 

Merman had a distinct sound: It was her trademark and it worked. Same went for Carol Channing, Liza Minnelli, Rex Harrison and Gwen Verdon.

 

Broadway today might be better trained, but it's a blurry collection of bland leading players.

 

Writing that Ethel Merman's acting was very broad is a stretch, especially since you never saw her in Broadway show.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Writing that Ethel Merman's acting was very broad is a stretch, especially since you never saw her in Broadway show.

 

Clearly, you have an affinity for Merm and that's fine.

 

We have differing opinions. Let it be.

[+ WilliamM]

Clearly, you have an affinity for Merm and that's fine.

 

We have differing opinions. Let it be.

 

I have no opinion about Al Jolson or Fanny Brice because they performed years before my time.

[Guest MikeThomas]

Loved what Patti had to say about ALW... “I thought “Evita” was the best thing he and Tim Rice did. But the rest of it is schmaltz.”

[hornytwells]

I have no opinion about Al Jolson or Fanny Brice because they performed years before my time.

So no one should have an opinion based on filmed performances of these artist-no opinion at all?

[+ WilliamM]

So no one should have an opinion based on filmed performances of these artist-no opinion at all?

 

Exactly. I seldom watch old musicals on TCM.

Edited October 23, 2019 by WilliamM

[hornytwells]

Exactly. I seldom watch old musicals on TCM.

So is this only about you? People who watch filmed performances of artists who are no longer living are not allowed to have an opinion on them? I was unaware of this rule.