Reactions to these veggie burgers?

[+ OliverSaks]

The beef industry isn’t backing down lol

[+ oldNbusted]

The beef industry isn’t backing down lol

 

Not only is this an ad hominem, it's also insulting to those of us who freely choose to eat beef. Since I think we all know you are not stupid, I would encourage you to advocate for your perspective differently.

[+ OliverSaks]

citation, from the Washington Post:

 

“In a recent report for Tri-State Livestock News, Stangle crunches some serious numbers. He compares the estrogen levels found in the Impossible Whopper to those in the original Whopper, based on their protein sources (beef for the original, and soy for the plant-based one). The Impossible Whopper, Stangle concludes, has 44 milligrams of estrogen compared to just 2.5 nanograms in the beef Whopper.

“Now let me refresh your metric system,” Stangle writes. “There are 1 million nanograms (ng) in one milligram (mg). That means an impossible whopper [sic] has 18 million times as much estrogen as a regular whopper [sic]. Just six glasses of soy milk per day has enough estrogen to grow boobs on a male.

It’s worth noting that Tri-State Livestock News is, according to its About Us page, a trade publication for the livestock industry, and the “growth and success of Tri-State Livestock News is due to the long-term support from the publication’s stockmen and agribusiness customer base.” As The Post’s Laura Reiley noted in a story this year, “Many of the country’s 800,000 cattle ranchers have declared war on newcomers Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat,” two of the leading companies responsible for plant-based meats. Impossible Foods supplies the patties for the Impossible Whopper.

It’s also worth noting that conservative news outlets, such as National File and MichaelSavage.com,”

The beef industry isn’t backing down lol

 

Not only is this an ad hominem, it's also insulting to those of us who freely choose to eat beef. Since I think we all know you are not stupid, I would encourage you to advocate for your perspective differently.

[+ OliverSaks]

I’m not wrong here lol

 

An endocrinology professor in undergrad, an expert in his field, shed light on the lay public’s understanding of hormones in food. The body treats the molecules in food just like it does other things, as something that is broken down and re-used from its constitutive parts. It isn’t like it just gets absorbed... the molecules are large and our digestive systems are robust.

 

additionally, the notion that phytoestrogens act with the same affinity for receptors as estrogen compounds made by humans, is not correct, and therefore a simple mg to mg comparison is very simplistic

 

Not only is this an ad hominem, it's also insulting to those of us who freely choose to eat beef. Since I think we all know you are not stupid, I would encourage you to advocate for your perspective differently.

[+ nycman]

The lefty vegan feminists are trying to secretly feminize the entire population!!!!!

 

I KNEW it!

 

grin

[+ oldNbusted]

citation, from the Washington Post:

 

“In a recent report for Tri-State Livestock News, Stangle crunches some serious numbers. He compares the estrogen levels found in the Impossible Whopper to those in the original Whopper, based on their protein sources (beef for the original, and soy for the plant-based one). The Impossible Whopper, Stangle concludes, has 44 milligrams of estrogen compared to just 2.5 nanograms in the beef Whopper.

“Now let me refresh your metric system,” Stangle writes. “There are 1 million nanograms (ng) in one milligram (mg). That means an impossible whopper [sic] has 18 million times as much estrogen as a regular whopper [sic]. Just six glasses of soy milk per day has enough estrogen to grow boobs on a male.

It’s worth noting that Tri-State Livestock News is, according to its About Us page, a trade publication for the livestock industry, and the “growth and success of Tri-State Livestock News is due to the long-term support from the publication’s stockmen and agribusiness customer base.” As The Post’s Laura Reiley noted in a story this year, “Many of the country’s 800,000 cattle ranchers have declared war on newcomers Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat,” two of the leading companies responsible for plant-based meats. Impossible Foods supplies the patties for the Impossible Whopper.

It’s also worth noting that conservative news outlets, such as National File and MichaelSavage.com,”

 

 

My dictionary defines ad hominem as: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. Nothing in this text suggests the facts stated are wrong.

[+ oldNbusted]

I’m not wrong here lol

 

An endocrinology professor in undergrad, an expert in his field, shed light on the lay public’s understanding of hormones in food. The body treats the molecules in food just like it does other things, as something that is broken down and re-used from its constitutive parts. It isn’t like it just gets absorbed... the molecules are large and our digestive systems are robust.

 

additionally, the notion that phytoestrogens act with the same affinity for receptors as estrogen compounds made by humans, is not correct, and therefore a simple mg to mg comparison is very simplistic

 

Argument by assertion is also a logical fallacy.

[+ OliverSaks]

Argument by assertion is also a logical fallacy.

 

you said I made an ad hominem, and I provided citations, I’m not sure what else I could do

 

I explained the science as basically as I could, I did “appeal to expert” but doubt that you’re gonna read an endocrinology text or journal article to try to dunk on me

 

Would you ever admit you were wrong or that you just don’t know much about this topic? I would say it is unlikely, you’re entitled to your feelings but THIS IS SCIENCE! ?

[+ oldNbusted]

you said I made an ad hominem, and I provided citations, I’m not sure what else I could do

 

I explained the science as basically as I could, I did “appeal to expert” but doubt that you’re gonna read an endocrinology text or journal article to try to dunk on me

 

Would you ever admit you were wrong or that you just don’t know much about this topic? I would say it is unlikely, you’re entitled to your feelings but THIS IS SCIENCE! ?

 

I looked quite closely, but didn't find any links to sources in your posts, #104 or #105. #104 has links but I don't see a link to the story you are citing.

 

I marked this post as insulting since you 1) mischaracterized my posts; 2) proceeded to a conclusion about me based on an uninformed assumption you made about me.

 

Additionally, I think you know, a single citation is just a starting point. Putting "science" in all caps is really not helping.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Went to a holiday dinner with colleagues at a local restaurant touting its Beyond Burger. A female colleague ordered hers with bacon. Yes...BACON. The server was flabbergasted, the kitchen sent a runner to confirm she wanted bacon on the “healthy veggie burger” and she confirmed it again. The bacon greatly improved the taste so she said. She always adds bacon to her veggi burger apparently. Bacon is of course the absolute best meat in existence but that’s another discussion. I’m going to add bacon to a veggie burger and give it a try.

[+ OliverSaks]

it was a joke playing on “this is sparta” from the cinematic classic “300” - I used a winky face to try to make that clear, that it was a joke rather than me being legitimately upset or something

 

if you were a scientist, I would assume that you’d counter my statements with something scientific, but I’m happy to admit that maybe I mischaracterized you, if indeed, you are one

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/12/26/dear-men-theres-no-evidence-that-eating-impossible-whoppers-will-give-you-breasts/%3foutputType=amp

 

 

 

I looked quite closely, but didn't find any links to sources in your posts, #104 or #105. #104 has links but I don't see a link to the story you are citing.

 

I marked this post as insulting since you 1) mischaracterized my posts; 2) proceeded to a conclusion about me based on an uninformed assumption you made about me.

 

Additionally, I think you know, a single citation is just a starting point. Putting "science" in all caps is really not helping.

[+ oldNbusted]

Bacon is of course the absolute best meat in existence but that’s another discussion.

 

Truer words never spoken. Anthony Bourdain hilariously described bacon as the "gateway protein" for vegans.

[+ oldNbusted]

it was a joke playing on “this is sparta” from the cinematic classic “300” - I used a winky face to try to make that clear, that it was a joke rather than me being legitimately upset or something

 

if you were a scientist, I would assume that you’d counter my statements with something scientific, but I’m happy to admit that maybe I mischaracterized you, if indeed, you are one

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/12/26/dear-men-theres-no-evidence-that-eating-impossible-whoppers-will-give-you-breasts/?outputType=amp

 

 

I'm perfectly happy to take everything you post as random noise, if you prefer. I was just doing you the courtesy of pointing out that in my opinion, your style of argumentation is hurting your position, not helping. Oddly enough, I've barely spoken about the claims made by others, even though you seem to be saying I have.

[+ OliverSaks]

easier to take it as noise than engage with anything substantial, certainly

 

I'm perfectly happy to take everything you post as random noise, if you prefer. I was just doing you the courtesy of pointing out that in my opinion, your style of argumentation is hurting your position, not helping. Oddly enough, I've barely spoken about the claims made by others, even though you seem to be saying I have.

[+ Reisr30]

Went to a holiday dinner with colleagues at a local restaurant touting its Beyond Burger. A female colleague ordered hers with bacon. Yes...BACON. The server was flabbergasted, the kitchen sent a runner to confirm she wanted bacon on the “healthy veggie burger” and she confirmed it again. The bacon greatly improved the taste so she said. She always adds bacon to her veggi burger apparently. Bacon is of course the absolute best meat in existence but that’s another discussion. I’m going to add bacon to a veggie burger and give it a try.

EVERYTHING is better with bacon

[MikeBiDude]

I tried both the impossible burger and the beyond meat burger and they weren’t my cup of tea. They still tasted a bit artificial.

 

Is it weird that when I first read about the impossible burger and the beyond meat company I thought of the movie Soylent Green? Lol

You gotta keep up with the whole thread ?

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/reactions-to-these-veggie-burgers.152041/post-1787287

[MikeBiDude]

Truer words never spoken. Anthony Bourdain hilariously described bacon as the "gateway protein" for vegans.

Some research I saw (as a restaurant consultant) years ago showed the first meat vegetarians would eat and ignore their vegetarianism....was bacon ??

[+ oldNbusted]

easier to take it as noise than engage with anything substantial, certainly

 

I provided you with the specific reasons for my opinion; that so far, you haven't provided anything of substance. Your response that that has been lacking in substance. You have avoided the ridiculous bomb-throwing that happened earlier in the thread but even the one link you provided appears to undercut your position because the well known scientist quoted in the article basically says no one actually knows yet.

[Guest]

Went to a holiday dinner with colleagues at a local restaurant touting its Beyond Burger. A female colleague ordered hers with bacon. Yes...BACON. The server was flabbergasted, the kitchen sent a runner to confirm she wanted bacon on the “healthy veggie burger” and she confirmed it again. The bacon greatly improved the taste so she said. She always adds bacon to her veggi burger apparently. Bacon is of course the absolute best meat in existence but that’s another discussion. I’m going to add bacon to a veggie burger and give it a try.

Well, since bacon comes from pigs and not cows, at least it's a bit better for the environment than a regular whopper (less methane gas produced). As I noted in my original posting, the impossible burger is no better health-wise than the regular whopper because both have loads of saturated fat (the grilled chicken option is the best health-wise).

I read an article in the New England Journal of Medicine the other day which highlighted the importance of understanding the difference between associations and causation. On page 2304 of volume 381, #24, there is a study which examined the role of the medication metoprolol in preventing COPD exacerbations. On page 2305, the author notes "...multiple observational studies suggesting that beta-blockers benefit patients with COPD...". He therefore took the important logical step and did a randomized clinic trial to see if the associated benefit noted in those studies was a causative one. Not only did the association not hold up as causative, but "hospitalization for exacerbations was more common among the patients treated with metoprolol."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1908142