A Modest Proposal

[Karl-G]

Now that all airlines in the U.S. have completely Smoke Free policies, it is time to take the next step toward making flying enjoyable again, and that is to make the environment totally Child Free. I just returned from another FFH (Flight from Hell) on American Airlines. Three children behind me screamed continuously for the three hours from Montreal to Miami. I tried moving to a different part of the plane, but there were Screaming Urchins all over. This should not be tolerated. Special SUF's (Screaming Urchin Flights) should be offered at premium rates for parents who wish to transport children around the country, but they should not be allowed on regular flights to wreak their heinous havoc. If you want kids, keep them grounded literally until they can behave and be quiet in public = until the age of eight. Keep our skies Child Free!

 

We are bigger than they are; there are more of us; we have money; and we have a right to quiet and privacy. Please join the growing national movement to make American skies safe and pleasant for real people. Demand that airlines make all flights Child Free!

[seaboy4hire]

I agree children should be grounded but I'd go as high as the age 10. Did you talk to an FA about the screaming brats? I had a PDX-LAX flight a few years (a few days after 9-11) ago and the kid behind me kept kicking my seat. Being I was close to being up 24 hours I was tired and on the cranky side. I told the flight attendant that if the mother didn't control her child I would and she wouldn't like it and returned to my seat. The rest of the way down to LAX was smooth sailing.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[email protected]

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com New page for reviews http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle Los Angeles June 28, 2007 One day only!CHICAGO June 29-July 2, 2007

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3307/dsc05257be3.jpg

[AdamSmith]

Wonder if these things come in urchin sizes?

 

http://petsafe-warehouse.com/bark_control_collars/images/quickfit.jpg

 

http://petsafe-warehouse.com/bark_control_collars/bark_control_collars.htm

[Lankypeters]

How about screaming magpies?

 

I was recently aboard an American flight from Dallas bound for Newark. The drawling bitch next to me revved up with the engines and started in with her new found seatmate -- while jerking around in her seat, sticking her head between the seats in front of us to yak with her two tow headed (two headed?) daughters. I tried a couple of looks. Nothing. I put on my Bose noise cancelling headphones. Still I heard her. I fibbed and said I had a headache, could she keep it down. Nothing. She pulled out her Bible and started reading aloud to her seatmate, with an occasional "Hail Mary" to her daughters. Finally, exasperated and nearly deaf, I said, "You have been talking nonstop ever since we took off. Do you have any consideration for other people?" I was astounded. The bitch looked embarassed, pulled out a copy of Woman's Day and shut up.

 

Once on an SAS flight from Stockholm to JFK, I landed in the middle of a group of Italian school kids, most of them around 13-14. They were going wild like monkeys on a banana ranch. The plane was jammed. I envisioned twelve hours of this lunacy. I told the attendant (a nice looking blond Swede) I had to move. I don't know how, but he found a seat.

 

Oh to fly business and first. Flyers get on, sit down, go to work.

 

 

 

 

Lankypeters

[Guest scortlovr]

While we're on the subject of "new rules" I also propose that as of now, all flight attendants must be male, muscular and willing! Also, uniforms must be tight fitting so passengers can enjoy the view :+

[SAdler]

A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

I was on such a flight to Miami with two sets of parents who had paid the half the full fare for their tot-sized children to sit with them in first class.

 

One child (belonging to an unnamed here but loud mouthed in her own right celebrity) was fast asleep while the other one belonged to an asian couple who were almost louder than the child screaming at each other to keep the kid quiet.

 

Humbly, I struck up a conversation with the personality and asked her secret.

 

"Kids cough syrup. They'd drink it anyway so it's not hurting them and it puts them out for a few hours and keeps them from crying the rest of the time."

 

This tidbit circuited our cabin quite quickly to the point that she was offering the couple some extra she had brought with her. They refused with disdainful commentary and everyone nearby gave them "that look" that could decimate a city.

 

At hour three when their kid was STILL crying and the other was fast asleep the mother finally gave in and we all enjoyed the rest of the flight.

 

I now keep a small travel size kids cough syrup with me, when I travel. Well worth the extra lost space in the quart sized toiletry ziploc and I know that even if the parent refuse I did my best.

[+ purplekow]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>I was on such a flight to Miami with two sets of

>parents who had paid the half the full fare for their

>tot-sized children to sit with them in first class.

>

>One child (belonging to an unnamed here but loud mouthed in

>her own right celebrity) was fast asleep while the other one

>belonged to an asian couple who were almost louder than the

>child screaming at each other to keep the kid quiet.

>

>Humbly, I struck up a conversation with the personality and

>asked her secret.

>

>"Kids cough syrup. They'd drink it anyway so it's not hurting

>them and it puts them out for a few hours and keeps them from

>crying the rest of the time."

>

New York to Miami with a loud-mouthed female celebrity who drugs her kids with cough syrup. You should have the National Enquirer on speed dial and your financial future would be looking very Rosie.

 

I have never seen a purplekow;

I never hope to see one;

I can tell you anyhow;

I'd rather see than be one

 

Help there is a purplekow in my mirror

[+ Gar1eth]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>>"Kids cough syrup. They'd drink it anyway so it's not

>hurting

>>them and it puts them out for a few hours and keeps them

>from

>>crying the rest of the time."

>>

 

 

 

1. I need to give a BIG WARNING in case any of you have children, grandchildren, nephews and nieces. Trying to drug a child so they will fall asleep with over the counter cough medication--may not be very efficacious and in the worst situation may actually be deadly.

 

I believe it is the FDA--and if it's not the general gist of what I am saying is still pertinent. So the FDA is becoming more and more concerned over the OTC children's cough medications. Most of these were never studied that well because most of the ingedients were on the market before rigorous testing was required.

 

They all say ask your physician for dosing for children under 2 years of age. But the physicians really don't know a dose--because there actually weren't any studies of using these medications in children under 2. Usually the physician receives a dosing guideline from the pharmaceutical representative--but again I doubt that theses doses have been rigorously examined. Most drug studies would not allow you to use a child under 2 years of age as a subject--although this is changing somewhat.

 

There have been a few deaths reported in children under the age of 2 who have taken OTC cough medications--thought to be caused either by the decongestant component (can cause arrhythmias) or the antihistamine component (can cause respiratory depression, ie stop breathing).

 

2. Most of the over the counter children's cough and cold at least for very young children under the age of 4 or so don't really work. Most of them contain the same or similar active ingredients. If they did work, why would there be so many? If they worked, there would be a few brands that everyone knew worked. --Note--If it is due to allergies then they might work--because most of them contain an antihistamine--but most children don't start developing allergies to the environment until the age of about 3--before that it's usually food allergies--and those don't give you cold dymptoms

 

3. Actually there was a study recently on the use of Benadryl, (diphenhydramine) an antihistamine commonly included in children's cough and cold medications, on putting children to sleep. They found it didn't work and it made some children hyperactive instead.

 

 

Bottom line--

 

1. Do not give children under 2 years of age cough and cold medications.

 

2. Do not try to drug children asleep through the use of cough and cold medicines--especially children under 2--too easy to overdose--and the reactions can be specific to an individual child--what harms one may not harm another of the same age, weight, etc.

 

Sorry for the long post--I know I haven't apologized for other long posts--but this seemed too important not to comment on it.

 

Gman

[SAdler]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>New York to Miami with a loud-mouthed female celebrity who

>drugs her kids with cough syrup. You should have the National

>Enquirer on speed dial and your financial future would be

>looking very Rosie.

 

Who said anything about New York? Reading the below I'm shocked but had no idea. I still stand by the happy experience sans crying

[Guest zipperzone]

2nd worst flight:

Returning to Vancouver via Lufthansa - 3 yr old in row behind me kicked the back of my seat for 8 hours solid - every fucking mile. Complaints to it's mother and FAs accomplished nothing. I was looked upon as the villan for having the nerve to complain about the dear little darling.

 

Absolutely worst flight ever:

Montreal to Dublin via Aer Lingus the night before Xmas eve. I had decided to go to Glasgow for Xmas at the last minute and the only flight I could get was this Aer Lingus originating in Chicago. When it stopped in Mtl to take on additional passengers, I quickly noticed the plane was full of drunken Irishmen returning home for Xmas all singing ribald carols off-key. There were also many very small children none of whom had any intention of being quiet.

 

One hour out of Mtl, the air-conditioning went on the fritz. The temperature in the plane rose to the high 90s. All the kids were screaming even more due to the uncomfortable conditions. So the mothers were trying to keep them quiet by getting the FA's to serve them orange juice which they drank in unbelievable quantities. After a couple of hours of gorging on the OJ, the kids began to throw up - not into the baggies supplied - kids have lousy aim - but just hurling in any direction they pleased.

 

The heat, the screaming & crying and the stench of all this vomit was almost more than I could bear. If they could have strapped me to the wing I'd have taken that option in a heart beat. Truly a flight from hell.

[Guest timgetrum]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>3. Actually there was a study recently on the use of

>Benadryl, (diphenhydramine) an antihistamine commonly included

>in children's cough and cold medications, on putting children

>to sleep. They found it didn't work and it made some children

>hyperactive instead.

 

hey, talk is cheap...cite the study...possibly true, but skeptical here!

[+ ArVaGuy]

I would like to see all small children relegated to the cargo hold. If the airlines can put animals in the pressurized section of the hold then small kids will fit just fine. They can be strapped in to a harness on the fuselage, then a monitor with some horrible kid's video can keep them occupied, while a tube feeds them orange juice spiked with xanax.

 

Seriously though, if you pay very close attention on most US carriers children are now seated toward the rear of the aircaft. Forward sections in coach are kept kid free as much as possible to appease the business frequent flyers.

 

Fortunately, I have been lucky in my first class situations to not have a single child in those sections this year. Hopefully my luck will run the rest of the year. :-)

[SAdler]

>Fortunately, I have been lucky in my first class situations to

>not have a single child in those sections this year.

>Hopefully my luck will run the rest of the year. :-)

 

I hope you have some wood to knock on ... if not I can offer up mine. But talk about invoking Murphy's Law

[+ ArVaGuy]

>I agree children should be grounded but I'd go as high as the

>age 10. Did you talk to an FA about the screaming brats? I had

>a PDX-LAX flight a few years (a few days after 9-11) ago and

>the kid behind me kept kicking my seat. Being I was close to

>being up 24 hours I was tired and on the cranky side. I told

>the flight attendant that if the mother didn't control her

>child I would and she wouldn't like it and returned to my

>seat. The rest of the way down to LAX was smooth sailing.

>

 

I had a similar experience years ago prior to 9-11. This was on a trip back from Latin America and this little brat kept kicking the back of my seat. The child was around 10 years old so he should have been better behaved than a smaller kid. He was kicking the seat and counting out in Spanish the number of kicks.

 

Rather than go to the FA, I grabbed the kid's leg and turned around to his mom and said that if he did not stop kicking my seat I would break his leg. There was some prattling in Spanish and the kid sat still for the remaining three hours of the flight. My seat mate gave me a thumbs up.

[Guest bighugbearphx]

>I would like to see all small children relegated to the cargo

>hold. If the airlines can put animals in the pressurized

>section of the hold then small kids will fit just fine.

 

Cargo hold? Nooooooo, that would be cruel to the poor animals in the cargo hold!

 

I propose that the in-cabin "overhead baggage compartments" be soundproofed and used to store screaming children. They're about the right size.

 

Of course, this means that people will no longer be able to bring ALL THEIR WORLDLY POSSESSIONS in carry-on luggage, which they take a half hour to stow away (and feel the need to "check on" several times during the flight) then block the aisle at the destination when they arrive. I consider that a plus to the plan.

 

[+ ArVaGuy]

>I hope you have some wood to knock on ... if not I can offer

>up mine. But talk about invoking Murphy's Law

 

 

I hope to knock your wood (and other parts) one of these days. ;-)

[+ Gar1eth]

>>I hope you have some wood to knock on ... if not I can

>offer

>>up mine. But talk about invoking Murphy's Law

>

>

>I hope to knock your wood (and other parts) one of these days.

> ;-)

 

 

I wanted to offer up a double entendre like that, but you were too quick for me. x(

 

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>>3. Actually there was a study recently on the use of

>>Benadryl, (diphenhydramine) an antihistamine commonly

>included

>>in children's cough and cold medications, on putting

>children

>>to sleep. They found it didn't work and it made some

>children

>>hyperactive instead.

>

>hey, talk is cheap...cite the study...possibly true, but

>skeptical

 

You wish is, well I don't know if it is my command or not, but here is an article on the previously mentioned study.

 

"Benadryl does not improve infant sleep

Medical Studies/Trials

Published: Monday, 3-Jul-2006

 

 

 

 

 

An antihistamine often recommended to parents whose infants do not sleep through the night may not be effective in reducing nighttime awakenings or improving parents' happiness with their children's sleep, according to a report in the July issue of Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine.

Between 20 and 46 percent of parents have reported that their infants have trouble sleeping, according to background information in the article. Some parents let their children cry for extended periods at night - this method, known as crying out, is popular but controversial among parents and health care professionals. Another commonly used method is to give children medications - such as antihistamines, normally used to treat allergies - to sedate them at bedtime. Diphenhydramine hydrochloride, sold as Benadryl, is often used by parents and recommended by physicians despite the fact that it has not been studied in children younger than age 2 years.

 

Dan Merenstein, M.D., then at The Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Baltimore, and now at Georgetown University, Washington, D.C., and colleagues conducted a trial of diphenhydramine in 44 children ages 6 to 15 months who slept in cribs. Parents in the study had all reported that their children woke up two or more times per night. The participating infants were randomly assigned to receive 100 mL of diphenhydramine or placebo (inactive medication) in a cherry-flavored liquid 30 minutes before bedtime for one week between May 2004 and May 2005. Parents reported whether the child had fewer awakenings that required parental intervention during that week and also tracked their child's sleep in a diary for the first 28 days. At four points during the first 43 days of the study, parents were asked to rate their happiness with their children's sleep on a scale of one to 10.

 

Three of 22 participants in the placebo group and one of 22 participants in the diphenhydramine group had fewer nighttime awakenings during the week in which the infants were taking medication. Two additional parents in the placebo group reported improvement in nighttime awakenings four weeks and six weeks later. There was no difference between the two groups in parents' reports of how happy they were with their children's sleep at any point during the study. On June 6, 2005, the trial was stopped because of the apparent lack of effectiveness of diphenhydramine.

 

"Many in the medical and lay community accept diphenhydramine as effective treatment for sleep problems," the authors write. "Unfortunately, this attitude is based on anecdote and studies of adult physiological interactions." The results of this study "demonstrated that at the most commonly used dose, diphenhydramine may play no role in treating infant sleep problems."

 

More rigorous studies are needed regarding effective treatment for sleep problems in children, the authors conclude. "Important aspects of a young child's health care, such as proper food intake and sleep routine, often are based on assumptions," they write. "Our study results illustrate that such assumptions may be wrong and should be subjected to study in life laboratories."

 

http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/"

 

 

Happy to oblige,

 

Gman

[Epigonos]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

I am one of the fortunate ones, being retired and with an income that allows me to travel a great deal,I find myself constantly flying. I am often on very long flights 10+ hours. Parents simply do no have options when it comes to traveling with infants and small children. Even on flights within the U.S. it is often fly or take the bus and the bus isn't really a viably option. I understand that infants and very small children have real problems with ear pressure particularly on take off and landing but also during flights. I have found that most parents try to make their children comfortable and keep them under control. Yes there are parent who don't and they are obnoxious BUT now days there are many obnoxius people flying and the vast majority don't have the excuse of traveling with small children. I have found that a few kind words to a frazzled parent and an offer to help goes a long way in improving the situation. On a recent flight to South America I spent an enjoyable hour reading to a restless three year old. The appreciative look and expressions of gratitude from his mother made the entire experience fun and worthwhile. Give'em a break guys most are trying.

[KMEM]

LOL :-)

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Guest novabear22031]

Even more than screaming kids, is yapping dogs. On my American Airlines flight to Palm Springs CA out of Chicago, we had a dog onboard that would not stop yapping. And the owners did nothing to quiet it down. Speaking with the FA brought no relief either.

 

Was nervous on the return trip to Chicago, when there was no less than four dogs on board! Lucky they yapped only a little. The kids on both those flights were better behaved than the dogs for sure.

[Guest]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>They all say ask your physician for dosing for children under

>2 years of age. But the physicians really don't know a

>dose--because there actually weren't any studies of using

>these medications in children under 2.

 

Actually, there have been multiple studies on cold medicines in children under 2. They all show no beneficial effect.

[+ Gar1eth]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>

>>They all say ask your physician for dosing for children

>under

>>2 years of age. But the physicians really don't know a

>>dose--because there actually weren't any studies of using

>>these medications in children under 2.

>

>Actually, there have been multiple studies on cold medicines

>in children under 2. They all show no beneficial effect.

 

 

Ok--Now I am going to have to be the one to to say please give the references for studies showing either non-efficacy and safety in children under 2 years of age--although I agree with your statement that they don't usually work.

 

 

 

There are definitely not a lot of these studies out there. IRB's (Institutional Review Boards--the committee at hospitals that ok research projects involving humans)--have always been very cautious in approving studies for children--especially younger children for at least the last 20 years. It wasn't until around 1991 that the FDA tried to give a big push to pediatric drug studies because physicans needed the data on how best to treat children, and drug companies still did not fund the research very often until the end of the 1990's.

 

Gman

[+ newatthis]

I assume it's only a reluctance to show off that has kept the well-read membership of this board from commenting on the clever title of Karl's post. (Carousing with him in Ft. Lauderdale kept me from a swifter response.)

[Guest]

RE: A NOT so Modest Proposal...

 

>Ok--Now I am going to have to be the one to to say please give

>the references for studies showing either non-efficacy and

>safety in children under 2 years of age--although I agree with

>your statement that they don't usually work.

>

>

OK--now I'm going to have to be the one to say "Do your own research if you're so interested." Just log onto the internet and go for it...

 

---Grace Lee, a pediatrician at Children's Hospital in Boston who specializes in infectious diseases, says products that promise to relieve symptoms such as stuffiness, runny noses, and coughs don't seem to have much effect on young cold sufferers. She's backed up by studies in Pediatrics and other medical journals, and articles in the Journal of the American Medical Association and Pediatric Annals. "Parents may want to give their children acetaminophen for a fever," Lee says. But when her 1-year-old daughter has a cold, she adds, "I don't give her anything."