Hmmmm .... not a happy camper.

[Rick Munroe]

>Frankly, i could care less whether one of American's FAs is

>backwards in her thinking,

 

I think you mean you couldn't care less , but if that's the case, why did you encourage people to switch to another airline? Scott asked people to submit online comments, and then dfw2sfo offered snail-mail contact info for AA's LGBT marketing division as well as other customer service people, but you said that it wasn't worth getting stressed over and that we should just switch airlines. That's not very fair, is it? Don't you think you should get AA's side of the story before you suggest a silent boycott?

 

>as the greater whole of the airline

>is stable, hardworking, open-minded and enjoyable. Letting

>one simple mind destroy that would be, in my opinion, silly

>and an extraordinary waste of time.

 

How does a letter-writing campaign, where you ask AA to explain their policy and express your disappointment in their actions, destroy anything? I don't see the destructive potential of exercising free speech, but maybe I'm missing something. And wasn't it you yourself who encouraged people to switch to another airline in order to do "quite a bit of damage" (your exact words) to American Airlines?

 

>As a gay community, we've got bigger fish to fry right now.

 

Great; let us know who those bigger fish are and we'll get right on it. In the past, I posted about Microsoft, zipperzone posted about Ford Motor Co., Scott's telling us about American Airlines and Greg just posted about the AFA, and I'm sure there've been others I'm forgetting. Obviously, some of us are eager to take action and you've got a captive audience. Let us know who you think we should be going after and what your strategy is and we'll be there for you, Benjamin.

[Guest PWIT]

this tete-a-tete between you two is giving me a boner! :9

[Rick Munroe]

>this tete-a-tete between you two is giving me a boner! :9

 

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I agree; a good intellectual argument is a big turn-on...just look at Sam and Diane on "Cheers." Btw, Derek says he prefers a tit-a-tit.

[Guest zipperzone]

>Letting

>one simple mind destroy that would be, in my opinion, silly

>and an extraordinary waste of time.

 

I beg to differ. It was not just one simple mind.

 

1: The flight attendant initally told them to stop claiming that the purser had told her to do so.

 

2: When the purser approached them, at their request, she initally claimed that she new nothing of the incident but later changed her mind and said she also called it inappropriate.

 

3: The captain threatened to divert the plane if they did not stop arguing with the flight attendants.

 

So we actually have THREE A.A. employees who had shit for brains that day, not ONE as you claim.

 

If you think protesting this is a waste of time, then don't protest.

 

I believe that if this is left unchallenged it becomes established as a precedent and other passengers on other AA flights could be subjected to the same treatment by other homophobic AA employees.

 

I still say they should have stood their ground and if the captain chose to divert the flight, he would end up looking like a complete fool.

[Rick Munroe]

>I still say they should have stood their ground and if the

>captain chose to divert the flight, he would end up looking

>like a complete fool.

 

I would have totally let him avert the flight! I wish it had been Derek and me...New Yorkers tend to handle things differently.

[Guest PWIT]

> Btw, Derek says he prefers a tit-a-tit.

 

Let Derek know I have other plans for his tit. :9

[Rick Munroe]

>I will be willing to smooch during the entire

>journey, including any layovers. And I will do it wearing a

>full-length shearling coat, whatever the hell that is.

 

I'm there...and definitely wear the coat so I can have some privacy when I go down on you... :9

[Epigonos]

Now be prepared guys because the pedantic school teacher is about to come out in me. I believe the correct expression is "I could care less" meaning I don't care. Now on the other hand "I couldn't care less or I could NOT care less" means I DO care because the "not" makes the care less an affrimative thus I DO CARE. Sorry to be such a stick in the mud.

[Guest PWIT]

Sure....and then have the whole flight pissed at you. Not gonna win any PR campaigns that way. Taking the high road, then helping the greater public understand what foolish behavior was exhibited by the crew is my suggestion for the way to win the greater PR battle.

 

But this course of action doesn't provide any sense of immediate gratification or satisfaction. Hard lessons to learn as MLK and Ghandi tried to relay, but the power is in the long term effect. It is not the easy path by no means.

 

Of course, this is all in hindsight of which no one involved has that luxory. (And by the way, I would have probably NOT headed my own advice).

 

Now, just as an aside. I once observed a United flight attendant request two individuals (male-female) put a halt to the public display of affection. The AA FA would have been well within bounds to make such a similar request, right? So, the issue here is the derogatory comments made and that is what should be held up to AA to address and remedy. Just my two cents....freely given.

[Rick Munroe]

>I believe the correct expression is

>"I could care less" meaning I don't care. Now on the other

>hand "I couldn't care less or I could NOT care less" means I

>DO care because the "not" makes the care less an affrimative

>thus I DO CARE.

 

I think you've got it backwards! If you could care less, that means that you already care some. Here, check out the Caring Continuum:

 

http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

 

"I could care less" has become a commonly used colloquial expression, but I'm of the camp that says it's still incorrect in its meaning.

 

And here are some more references, if you find this interesting (which I do):

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html

http://incompetech.com/gallimaufry/care_less.html

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/archive/2005-08/2005-08-23-voa1.cfm?CFID=562105&CFTOKEN=43759041

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19960610

[Rick Munroe]

>Sure....and then have the whole flight pissed at you. Not

>gonna win any PR campaigns that way. Taking the high road,

>then helping the greater public understand what foolish

>behavior was exhibited by the crew is my suggestion for the

>way to win the greater PR battle.

 

You're absolutely right. It wouldn't have happened to me anyway because I prefer to do my kissin' in private. ;-)

[Lookin]

< "I could care less" meaning I don't care . . . >

 

Then what would "I could care more." mean? And wouldn't "I couldn't care more." mean that I do care very much? I do care, more or less.

 

Seriously, if this had happened to me sixty-one months ago, I think I would have stood my ground then and there. I would have understood if public displays of affection had been banned for everyone, but not if it applied only to me and my hottie du jour.

 

Today, however, it's a different ballgame. I imagine flight crews can get twitchy as a gerbil. A friend of mine was kicked off a flight when she complained that someone was sitting in her seat. The captain has carte blanche to bring the plane down for any reason at all, no questions asked. And you have no idea who will be waiting for you when you get on the ground. And what they will decide to do with you. It's a strange time.

 

I think we have here a confluence of gay rights with the war on terror. In fact, many of our human and civil rights are caught in the crossfire. But that's another thread in another forum.

 

Well, got to run out and scare up a shearling coat. I'm thinking an emerald shade, to match Rick's eyes.

[AdamSmith]

>"I could care less" has become a commonly used colloquial

>expression, but I'm of the camp that says it's still incorrect

>in its meaning.

 

Rick, old boy (speaking from one's club chair behind a cloud of cigar smoke), below is a hypothesis that might make you reconsider.

 

Of course in saying that, I am assuming a lot about primitive tribal loyalties -- low on Kohlberg's scale of moral development -- so please feel free to tell me where to stick it. (Schtick it?) You know me well enough to do that. In fact, if memory serves... }(

 

 

...Something caused the negative to vanish even while the original form of the expression was still very much in vogue and available for comparison. Stephen Pinker, in The Language Instinct, points out that the pattern of intonation in the two versions is very different.

 

There’s a close link between the stress pattern of I could care less and the kind that appears in certain sarcastic or self-deprecatory phrases that are associated with the Yiddish heritage and (especially) New York Jewish speech. Perhaps the best known is I should be so lucky!, in which the real sense is often “I have no hope of being so lucky”, a closely similar stress pattern with the same sarcastic inversion of meaning. There’s no evidence to suggest that I could care less came directly from Yiddish, but the similarity is suggestive. There are other American expressions that have a similar sarcastic inversion of apparent sense, such as Tell me about it!, which usually means “Don’t tell me about it, because I know all about it already”. These may come from similar sources.

 

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm

[RockHard]

RE: Public kissing discrimination.

 

Thank you, Scott, for drawing attention to this article. I might have missed it if it hadn't been for this thread.

 

I agree with the corporate mind-think that states, “Kissing is inappropriate behavior on an airplane.” But it does depend on how you characterize the kissing.

 

I believe overt public displays of affection in certain public-service environments are inappropriate, no matter who feels righteous and selfish enough to engage openly.

 

Deciding which is overt and which is discreet, within such an environment, is a real challenge. Any decision is wrought with the potential for fairness peril.

 

I wouldn't want to be the customer-service rep who has to decide what is a peck and what is kiss, regardless of sexual orientation. People tend to be selfish, by nature, with complete disregard for others' social boundaries. Horny, starry-eyed lovers rarely see their public displays of loving intimacy affecting others. But they often do, as many tacky heterosexuals are often reminded to "take it the bedroom."

 

Most people live in their own worlds, intentionally oblivious to anyone else. We live in narcissistic times and this remains the "me," I-do-what-I-want-to/fuck-you generation. A lot of people feel that any kiss is just a kiss and that's just not true.

 

Referring to the flight attendant with words like “Texas hair, like from the nineteen-sixties,” was inappropriate faggot speech. As far as I'm concerned, these words were seeking a fight. A smart, respectable (male) customer, even one facing an uncomfortable reprimand, would have reacted less defensively and avoided turning the moment into "Queer Eye" for the righteous.

 

From the New Yorker:

"Tim Wagner, a spokesman for American, said that the stewardess’s injunction to the men was reasonable, and would have been made whether the couple was gay or straight. “Our passengers need to recognize that they are in an environment with all ages, backgrounds, creeds, and races. We have an obligation to make as many of them feel as comfortable as possible,” he said. (He added, “Our understanding is that the level of affection was more than a quick peck on the cheek.”)"

 

Again, there are no rules clearly defining what is blatant and what is discreet. This stuff tends to be subjective, and often, we're at the mercy of the bigots and the I'll-show-you types.

 

Also from the New Yorker:

"But a customer-service representative named Terri, reached last week on the telephone, offered the opinion that kissing on airplanes is indeed permissible. “Oh, yeah! Sure. I’ve seen couples who are on honeymoons,” she said. “They just don’t want you to go into the bathroom together.”"

 

And here lies American Airlines' problem. When two reps say two different things, something is clearly wrong. I don't think this calls for any boycott but, had I witnessed this event, I would have enjoyed writing a good letter to the CEO of the airline, expressing my displeasure with their convoluted policy and their contradictory internal meassage.

[Rick Munroe]

Leave it to the goyim to show a smartypants jewboy a thing or two. I see your point about the intonation (and I read that somewhere else, too) but doesn't that mean that it's something that should be spoken and not written? Maybe the best compromise would be: you can say "could care less" but if you're gonna write it down, go with "couldn't"?

 

Speaking of cigars:

[AdamSmith]

>Leave it to the goyim to show a smartypants jewboy a thing or

>two.

 

We are not completely without culture or learning. (Translation: Thank God for Google!)

 

Good point that maybe colloquialisms ought to be heard but not seen.

 

And thanks for the cigar! Supressing several "blow job" lines...

[jackhammer91406]

Scot,

I had a friend who was an air traffic controller at O'Hare airport and he often would comment on his favorite and his least favorite pilots . He loved United pilots, always courteous and efficient. He hated, hated, loathed American Pilots who he said had more arrogance and attitude and were more impolite than any pilots in the air. Guess the problem is company wide.

[Epigonos]

You know guys one of the really nice things about this board right now it that we can have this duscussion and many others and disagree about almost everything without becoming NASTY & MEAN SPIRITED. That sure as hell hasn't always been the case.

[AdamSmith]

>You know guys one of the really nice things about this board

>right now it that we can have this duscussion and many others

>and disagree about almost everything without becoming NASTY &

>MEAN SPIRITED. That sure as hell hasn't always been the case.

 

Shh! Never mention a no-hitter in progress. :-)

[Guest PWIT]

>You know guys one of the really nice things about this board

>right now it that we can have this duscussion and many others

>and disagree about almost everything without becoming NASTY &

>MEAN SPIRITED. That sure as hell hasn't always been the case.

>

Shut up Epigonos! :+