Natural remedies... yeah or nay?

[Seven]

Okay...

 

I've got the flu this week (the stomach kind), and I've been taking something called GSE (Grapefruit Seed Extract), which apparently is a natural antibiotic that works in a similar fashion to garlic, only without the unpleasant effects. It is some wicked bitter stuff though--you have to mix it with juice to tolerate its taste.

 

I figured, what the hell---it was only $12. Not sure if it is really working / working at all. I do feel better though.

 

Has anyone used this stuff before, or got any pro/neg experience with other herbals? I don't normally take much meds of ANY kind other than Tylenol.

 

Echinacea - didn't do shit for me

Goldenseal - had an allergic reaction

Oil of Oregano - actually did work against sinus infections

 

 

Seven

 

[whipped guy]

Re: Echinacea

 

I have not had luck with echinacea either...

 

I have switched to "Korean Ginseng" and so far the results have been encouraging (but not conclusive)... taken in conjunction with alpha lipoic acid and pycnogenol plus the usual multi-vitamin supplements.

[+ Charlie]

I've tried various herbals, including all of the above, and none of them worked on the things they were recommended for.

[Guest PWIT]

not sure it would classify as a remedy, but as a preventive measure to boost immunity, I would suggest probiotics such as found in some beverages (DanActive) or yogurts (Activa, Breyers Light! Probiotics Plus, etc.). You can also get in other forms at healthfood stores.

 

link below may be helpful:

http://www.health24.com/dietnfood/Probiotics/15-1940,16776.asp

[Guest jstlooknthx]

Traditionally, echinacea needs to be taken faithfully for at least a day or two in high doses to reach effectiveness. It was never meant to be popped like aspirin. It is just really a waste to throw it into some of these herbal cold formulas at such low levels.

 

Grapefruit Seed Extract and a lozenge called Cold-Eeze can actually lighten and shorten the duration of a cold. The nasal versions of these zinc formulas can allegedly cause loss of smell, so I stick with the lozenge.

 

The most powerful if these natural remedies for me has been Propolis. Tastes horrible. You really have to chug it down. But I find if I take it early enough, I never really get sick. When I am sick it really helps clear up any sinus or chest infection in progress. The brands very wildly in quality. I think the best is a tincture by a company called Eclectic Institute. I take a full dropper every 6 hours and triple my Vit. C intake.

 

As with echinacea, the trick with herbal remedies is building up the substance in your system. These are not one time applications. Stay faithful with your doses. Usually every 4 to 6 hours depending on severity and you will soon find which works best for you also.

[Guest]

Historically, little research had been done on herbal remedies because funding wasn't available (in the absence of a possible patent, private funding is not forthcoming). However, in the last five years or so, a whole slew of studies have been completed in order to examine the effect (or lack thereof) of number of herbal and vitamin/mineral remedies. With few exceptions, none of them have shown to be helpful. In a few cases, they have been shown to have to opposite of the purported effect. One example is Vitamin E, which seems to cause a small but definite increase in negative cardiac outcomes, and another is Echinacea, in which those who took it actually had their colds last longer (not by a whole lot, but statistically significantly).

The one exception I can think of is Zinc Gluconate lozenges (at 15 mg), which have been shown in two studies to shorten colds when sucked on (not chewed or swallowed) within hours of symptom onset--i.e. when the cold is in the sore throat phase, not the runny nose (let alone the cough) phase. Basically, for the zinc lozenges to work, you need to have them on hand at home, so that you can start sucking on them the moment you wake up with that sore throat.

When it comes to "stomach flus," these infections are, as the name implies, viral (although these viruses have absolutely no genetic similarity to the influennza viruses). Antibacterial activity would be neither helpful nor desireable. In fact, antibiotics tend to cause or worsen diarrhea, rather than the other way around (with rare exceptions not usually found in the U.S.--generally bacterial infections involve significant fevers and/or bloody stools).

If one is taking antibiotics for another reason (a sinus infection or bladder infection, for example), probiotics such as Activa yogurt may prevent antibiotic-associated diarrhea by adding (as opposed to killing) bacteria. This is because "good bacteria" (i.e. lactobacilli) are needed for good bowel function (this is also why antibiotics often cause or worsen diarrhea).

Once diarrhea is established, however, it is best to avoid dairy products, because digesting them requires lactase, an enzyme on the superficial surface of the small intestine which is easily damaged by infection or other intestinal disorders. After the diarrhea has resolved, it's a good idea to eat the probiotic yogurt again to replenish the good bacteria.

Some extremely important facts that one needs to know about dietary supplements, particularly herbs, are as follows. First, unlike medications, they have almost no oversight by the FDA. They do not have to prove either safety or efficacy (let alone both, which medications are required to prove). All they have to do is put in small print somewhere: "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This is not intended to prevent, cure, treat, or diagnose disease." Secondly, many dietary supplements interfere with medications, so anyone taking medications and dietary supplements should consult his pharmacist to check for interactions. Finally, for a dietary supplement to be taken off the market, the FDA has to sue to prove it's unsafe (unlike medications which have to prove they're safe in order to be approved by the FDA). The only time I can ever remember the FDA successfully getting a dietary supplement off the market was when tryptophan was killing people with eosinophilia-myalgia (and that was probably due to a contaminant, not the tryptophan itself). Hope this helps.

[Guest Tristan]

Probiotics boost your immune system and help regulate digestion.

 

Dan Active - Dairy drink boosts your immune system with one probiotic.

 

Dan Activia - Small yogurt targets your digestive system with one probiotic.

 

Both of the above have worked for me.

 

But what you want to consider is a multi-probiotic supplement, such as "All Flora" or "Probiotic Immune Support", made by New Chapter, and other companies. Both of these restore the good bacteria in your digestive track. You should always take a probiotic while on antibiotics. In fact, if possible, start the probiotic before the antibiotic. Antibiotics kill off all the good bacteria, so it's important to replace them, or the result will be unpleasant side effects, such as "the runs." Probiotics, taken on a regular basis, may also help boost your immune system.

 

A great remedy for colds: Zicam (available in all drugstore chains)

 

This is a homeopathic remedy.

 

You apply this to the bottom of your nostrils, where the cold germs grow. You should start this as soon as you think you're getting a cold, but it still helps even if late. I've found it much better than Cold-Eze (both contain zinc) because you're hitting the source directly. It comes in a spray gel form and also in individual cotton swabs soaked in the medication. It shortens the duration and reduces the severity of the cold for me.

 

Astragalus: Herbal remedy that boosts the immune system. I've had no side effects, and as far as I know, there are no known side effects. Whole foods carries different brands of this in tincture form.

 

Echinacea: I also find this helpful, taken along with Zicam.

[Guest jstlooknthx]

As I mentioned, there is litigation against Ziccam:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001240_pf.html

[Guest Tristan]

I read the article in The Washington Post. Thanks for the link. The people who claimed loss of sense of smell may not have been using Zicam properly. The old spray nozzle had more force and a thicker gel, almost as thick as vaseline.

 

You're supposed to aim it at the lower outer corners of the nostrils. I've had no problem doing this. A lot of people don't follow directions and were spraying it directly up the nose like a traditional nasal spray, thereby inhaling it. I can see how this could be a problem. The gel was quite thick. The new sprayer does have less force, and the gel is thinner, more like a liquid gel.

 

The directions clearly state not to apply the medication more than 1/4 inch inside the nostrils.

 

So I'll continue to use this product because it's still safer than many products and it actually kills cold germs, not just treat symptoms. But thanks for bringing the issue to my attention.

 

- Tristan

[Guest RandyRon]

Having put in over 40 years as a research scientist, I only rely on products, especially for medical use, that have been shown to be both safe and effective in a double-blind test. And, yes I do read the test results before I take the stuff. I even had to show my physician that one of the drugs he had prescribed was only slightly more effective than the placebo in the tests. Supplements are sold without either of these requirements. You say it only cost $12. Well I'll bet the seller thanks you for the $11.50 in profit.

 

But, like going to a fortune teller or a psychic, if it gives you comfort, go for it.

[Guest]

>A great remedy for colds: Zicam (available in all drugstore

>chains)

>

>This is a homeopathic remedy.

>

Zicam has absolutely nothing to do with homeopathy. Homeopathic rememdies are made by diluting offensive substances to infinitesmal amounts, which supposedly results in the opposite of the noxious effect:

"Homeopathic remedies are either prepared by serial trituration [grinding] with lactose [usually 1 part in 10 or 1 part in 100] of insoluble substances, such as Quartz and Oyster shell, or by dilution of a substance with succussion (shaking between dilutions) for soluble substances. These original serial dilutions by Hahnemann were performed using a 1 part in 100 or centesimal scale, or 1 part in 50,000 or Quintamillesimal [LM or Q potencies]. Some practitioners then developed a decimal scale of 1 part in 10. These latter became extremely popular througout Europe in the 19th century, but were replaced with even higher dilutions, especially in the US and Britain, in the 20th century. Remedies are thus given say 30c, 6x, LM3 to designate the degree of dilution they have received.

 

The remedies in homeopathy are often so dilute that they are unlikely to contain any molecules of the original substance. At first, Hahnemann tested in homeopathic provings, substances commonly used as medicines in his time [such as Antimony and Rhubarb] and also poisons like Arsenic, Mercury and Belladonna."

 

Zicam is simply a mineral nutrient.

 

>You apply this to the bottom of your nostrils, where the cold

>germs grow.

 

Where did you get the idea that cold germs grow there? Cold viruses are probably most often introduced through rubbing the eyes, where ducts drain into the back of the nose (and then down the throat). Haven't you ever had a cold? Does it start with a sore throat or with inflamation at the bottom of the nostrils?

 

>You should start this as soon as you think you're

>getting a cold, but it still helps even if late. I've found it

>much better than Cold-Eze (both contain zinc) because you're

>hitting the source directly. It comes in a spray gel form and

>also in individual cotton swabs soaked in the medication. It

>shortens the duration and reduces the severity of the cold for

>me.

>

Obviously, the effect of a product cannot be assessed by observing an effect on one person. I think that's rather intuitively obvious.

 

>Astragalus: Herbal remedy that boosts the immune system. I've

>had no side effects, and as far as I know, there are no known

>side effects. Whole foods carries different brands of this in

>tincture form.

>

Astragalus can cause gas and loose bowels. On what basis do you claim that it boosts the immune system?

 

>Echinacea: I also find this helpful, taken along with Zicam.

 

As I mentioned previously, the only placebo-controlled prospective study on echinacea in colds showed pretty conclusively that people who took echinacea had their colds last longer than those who took the placebo.

[Guest timgetrum]

...natural remedies...lol

 

what a great day, the 4th of july...we celebrate indepence...part of the process of getting more liberty...

 

...we are free to take "natural" remidies, although the double blind, peer reviewed studies disclose that much of the natural remidies stuff is bunk...most of the double blind, peer reviewed studies are good...but take the natural remidies if you FEEL better...

 

...scientific medicine is not fixed...it includes things that work (proved up by the double blind, peer-reviewed studies)...scientific medicine is dynamic...it throws out things about which it was wrong...and grabs new things...most of the goofy stuff in natural remidies is backed by anecdotes...once something is proven to work it is no longer "natural medicine," it is scientific medicine...

[Guest Tristan]

>

>>A great remedy for colds: Zicam (available in all drugstore

>>chains)

>>

>>This is a homeopathic remedy.

>>

>Zicam has absolutely nothing to do with homeopathy.

 

Zicam is labeled as a homeopathic remedy. The active ingredient is:

Zicum Gluconicum 2X. Only homeopathic drugs use this nomenclature.

 

>Homeopathic rememdies are made by diluting offensive

>substances to infinitesmal amounts, which supposedly results

>in the opposite of the noxious effect:

>"Homeopathic remedies are either prepared by serial

>trituration [grinding] with lactose [usually 1 part in 10 or 1

>part in 100] of insoluble substances, such as Quartz and

>Oyster shell, or by dilution of a substance with succussion

>(shaking between dilutions) for soluble substances. These

>original serial dilutions by Hahnemann were performed using a

>1 part in 100 or centesimal scale, or 1 part in 50,000 or

>Quintamillesimal [LM or Q potencies]. Some practitioners then

>developed a decimal scale of 1 part in 10. These latter became

>extremely popular througout Europe in the 19th century, but

>were replaced with even higher dilutions, especially in the US

>and Britain, in the 20th century. Remedies are thus given say

>30c, 6x, LM3 to designate the degree of dilution they have

>received.

>

>The remedies in homeopathy are often so dilute that they are

>unlikely to contain any molecules of the original substance.

>At first, Hahnemann tested in homeopathic provings, substances

>commonly used as medicines in his time [such as Antimony and

>Rhubarb] and also poisons like Arsenic, Mercury and

>Belladonna."

>

>Zicam is simply a mineral nutrient.

 

Zicam is very similar to the ingredient in Cold-Eze or plain old zinc gluconate losenges in your health food store.

 

>

>>You apply this to the bottom of your nostrils, where the

>cold

>>germs grow.

 

Again, talk to Zicam. That's what they claim. Maybe, you'd like to join the lawsuit against them. Maybe, the lawsuit is being orchestrated by some traditional drug companies that are losing money to the Zicam manufacturer.

 

>

>Where did you get the idea that cold germs grow there? Cold

>viruses are probably most often introduced through rubbing the

>eyes, where ducts drain into the back of the nose (and then

>down the throat).

 

You're right about rubbing the eyes or touching any mucous membranes. That's not necessarily inconsistent with germs growing at the base of the nostrils. That is one of the mucous membranes you're not supposed to touch without washing your hands.

 

>Haven't you ever had a cold? Does it start

>with a sore throat or with inflamation at the bottom of the

>nostrils?

>

>>You should start this as soon as you think you're

>>getting a cold, but it still helps even if late. I've found

>it

>>much better than Cold-Eze (both contain zinc) because you're

>>hitting the source directly. It comes in a spray gel form

>and

>>also in individual cotton swabs soaked in the medication.

>It

>>shortens the duration and reduces the severity of the cold

>for

>>me.

>>

>Obviously, the effect of a product cannot be assessed by

>observing an effect on one person. I think that's rather

>intuitively obvious.

 

 

I said the product works for me. I never said it would work for everyone. But if it works for me, others may want to try it. When I don't use it, the cold is more severe and of longer duration.

 

>

>>Astragalus: Herbal remedy that boosts the immune system.

>I've

>>had no side effects, and as far as I know, there are no

>known

>>side effects. Whole foods carries different brands of this

>in

>>tincture form.

>>

 

>Astragalus can cause gas and loose bowels. On what basis do

>you claim that it boosts the immune system?

 

I've never had any negative side effects from Astragalus and I am very sensitive to many drugs and herbs.

 

Two bases for claiming it boosts the immune system:

 

1) Earl Mindell's "Vitamin Bible"

 

This book has been a bestseller since 1985, was one of the first books on herbal rememdies, and is one of the most frequently recommended books on vitamins, minerals, and herbs.

 

2) One of the most knowledgeable alternative doctors in the US. He is an internist who is also an herbalist, accupuncturist, and one of the very few doctors who knows the interactions between herbal rememdies and traditional drugs. He is in great demand in the Boston area, and I've never found another doctor with his knowledge. He turned me on to rememdies years before good research studies have proven him right, including some of the leading antioxidants found in certain foods. It's thanks to him that I learned about helpful remedies before most people ever heard of them.

 

>

>>Echinacea: I also find this helpful, taken along with Zicam.

>

>As I mentioned previously, the only placebo-controlled

>prospective study on echinacea in colds showed pretty

>conclusively that people who took echinacea had their colds

>last longer than those who took the placebo.

>

 

Longer? I don't believe it. If you said that it didn't help, that would be more credible.

 

Again, I said that I find this helpful. Others may not. People react very differently to herbal rememdies. There are herbs that I wouldn't touch, such as Kava Kava. In fact, Mindell lists many of the dangerous herbs.

 

If we based our decisions strictly on studies, we wouldn't be taking anything. In many cases, for every study that says something is safe, there is a study that refutes it. There are clear exceptions to this.

 

People need to be more open-minded to certain remedies, even if the FDA or some research study doesn't approve. There are a lot of FDA approved drugs out there that cause horrendous side effects or long-term serious damage - much worse than any possible side effects of the remedies we've discussed.

[Guest]

>Zicam is labeled as a homeopathic remedy. The active

>ingredient is:

>Zicum Gluconicum 2X. Only homeopathic drugs use this

>nomenclature.

>

You have not read enough about homeopathy. There are many sources you can search on the internet if you're interested. As I said previously, homeopathy involves serial dilutions of offensive substances. Just because something is labeled homeopathic doesn't make it homeopathic. Even a casual 5 minute education about homeopathy will reveal to you why Zicam is not a homeopathic "medicine."

 

 

>

>Again, talk to Zicam. That's what they claim. Maybe, you'd

>like to join the lawsuit against them. Maybe, the lawsuit is

>being orchestrated by some traditional drug companies that are

>losing money to the Zicam manufacturer.

>

Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. Studies would need to be done to determine whether Zicam indeed damages the nerves involved with smelling. However, I think one can say that Zicam MAY damage these nerves. Both safety and effectiveness need to be studied with placebo-controlled studies. Something isn't true simply because you believe it to be, or want it to be.

 

>>Astragalus can cause gas and loose bowels. On what basis do

>>you claim that it boosts the immune system?

>

>I've never had any negative side effects from Astragalus and I

>am very sensitive to many drugs and herbs.

>

>Two bases for claiming it boosts the immune system:

>

>1) Earl Mindell's "Vitamin Bible"

>

>This book has been a bestseller since 1985, was one of the

>first books on herbal rememdies, and is one of the most

>frequently recommended books on vitamins, minerals, and

>herbs.

>

The fact that a book sells a lot of copies doesn't make its contents true.

 

>2) One of the most knowledgeable alternative doctors in the

>US. He is an internist who is also an herbalist,

>accupuncturist, and one of the very few doctors who knows the

>interactions between herbal rememdies and traditional drugs.

>He is in great demand in the Boston area, and I've never found

>another doctor with his knowledge. He turned me on to

>rememdies years before good research studies have proven him

>right, including some of the leading antioxidants found in

>certain foods. It's thanks to him that I learned about helpful

>remedies before most people ever heard of them.

>

Studies on anti-oxidants have shown either no effect, or, in the case of Vitamin E, a harmful effect. Having a lot of knowledge is only helpful if the knowledge is accurate. The fact that he's in demand is merely a testament to many peoples' gullibility.

>>

>>>Echinacea: I also find this helpful, taken along with

>Zicam.

>>

>>As I mentioned previously, the only placebo-controlled

>>prospective study on echinacea in colds showed pretty

>>conclusively that people who took echinacea had their colds

>>last longer than those who took the placebo.

>>

>

>Longer? I don't believe it. If you said that it didn't help,

>that would be more credible.

>

>Again, I said that I find this helpful.

 

This is a perfect example of why one cannot rely on a single person's experience to conclude that a product is effective. Colds have different durations. Even if you had an identical twin, and you both caught colds at the same time, and one of you took echinacea and one placebo, you could still not come to any conclusions. A study was recently published in this country's most prestigious medical journal, the New England Journal of Medicine. The colds of people who took echinacea actually lasted some 4 1/2 hours longer (not a whole lot, but it was statistically significant). Fee free to read the article and offer your erudite criticism of their research methods.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/353/4/341