jjlucky

I am not in the habit of commenting on posts like this -- life is short. But since this poster seems open to learning, I'll give it a shot. 
By way of introduction I am an American who has been working and vacationing in Brazil for more than 25 years. I am a cultural anthropologist and a journalist by trade, with a profound love and respect for Brazil, its people and its potential. Over the years I have lived in Rocinha (the largest favela in South America), currently live across the street from Tabajara, do volunteer work at a school in PPG, and am working with a business incubator in Vidigal. My boyfriend is a cria, and most of my closest Brazilian friends -- like 80% of the rest of the population -- lives in the favela. I am sure there are gringos who know more about favela life...but I have not met one yet.
Vidigal is interesting and unique in a number of ways, and not because it is close to Leblon. In fact, Vidigal is the favela that led the community resistance movement AGAINST gentrification. And in doing so, Vidigal established a pattern, and legal precedent, that many other communities in Brazil followed. Vidigal helped assure that the favela communities across Brazil retained internal empowerment and control against economic forces trying to erase them.
In my experience, no two favelas are the same. Some are, in fact, desperate and unsafe due to the influence of organized crime. Others are full of the kind of vibrant energy and creativity that Brazil is famous for. What is true about all of them: They are full of families who are trying to thrive, and also individuals with big dreams. In this respect, they are exactly like any community anywhere. In my opinion, visiting a favela can be a mind-expanding, even life-changing experience. It absolutely was for me. It all depends on how you onboard what you see, what you feel, how you connect, and most importantly -- how you go forward.  
As a gringo, I try to resist the urge to pontificate on what is, or is not, good for the favela and the people who live there. I've found my own answer, and it involves helping to create economic and educational opportunities for the people who live and work in these extraordinary communities. "Favela tourism" is an easy thing to bark about, and to dismiss. But the truth on the ground is vastly more nuanced. Supporting local tours that have a community-first values system is just one way that anyone can give back to the community when they visit Rio. And maybe the experience will give something back to you? 

Glad you edited that!

Thanks for saying that. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply. And I agree with you on the last point. Reflection shouldn’t turn into in action or cynicism. Ideally, it should just help us engage a bit more deliberately, in ways that feel comfortable yet still respectful to the local community.
Wishing you well.

@hornyfrog Thank you so much for your excellent post. It made me think. TBH I've never visited this site or posted here before LatBear's generous post about Patrick's tours. And I don't post often anywhere; I have a profound love/hate relationship with social media. Even moreso these days. So I didn't really think about the implications -- implicit or explicit -- of posting or even discussing an otherwise 100% nonsexual topic on a site called "companyofmen." Call me stupid. I often am. Given the editorial context, it would be natural to make a leap toward sex work or even exploitation, etc. I get it now. Thanks for helping me to that insight. I also was not aware of all the animosity that seems to be rampant in this place. In hindsight, I might have handled this all quite differently. Live and learn!
Having lived in the favela, and working now with Brota (the microentrepreneur business incubator in Vidigal) and Solar (the fabulous school in PPG) I'm super alert to the concerns you raise around narrative, access, and wealth creation/distribution. They're extremely valid issues, and I wish that more folks were able to think and speak as clearly about them as you seem to. I guess I only hope that potential visitors / contributors to the community are not paralyzed by them into inaction or cynicism. That would be a shame for them, and for the community.
Thank you again for opening my eyes. I'm grateful.

@hornyfrog Thank you so much for your excellent post. It made me think. TBH I've never visited this site or posted here before LatBear's generous post about Patrick's tours. And I don't post often anywhere; I have a profound love/hate relationship with social media. Even moreso these days. So I didn't really think about the implications -- implicit or explicit -- of posting or even discussing an otherwise 100% nonsexual topic on a site called "companyofmen." Call me stupid. I often am. Given the editorial context, it would be natural to make a leap toward sex work or even exploitation, etc. I get it now. Thanks for helping me to that insight. I also was not aware of all the animosity that seems to be rampant in this place. In hindsight, I might have handled this all quite differently. Live and learn!
Having lived in the favela, and working now with Brota (the microentrepreneur business incubator in Vidigal) and Solar (the fabulous school in PPG) I'm super alert to the concerns you raise around narrative, access, and wealth creation/distribution. They're extremely valid issues, and I wish that more folks were able to think and speak as clearly about them as you seem to. I guess I only hope that potential visitors / contributors to the community are not paralyzed by them into inaction or cynicism. That would be a shame for them, and for the community.
Thank you again for opening my eyes. I'm grateful.

@hornyfrog Thank you so much for your excellent post. It made me think. TBH I've never visited this site or posted here before LatBear's generous post about Patrick's tours. And I don't post often anywhere; I have a profound love/hate relationship with social media. Even moreso these days. So I didn't really think about the implications -- implicit or explicit -- of posting or even discussing an otherwise 100% nonsexual topic on a site called "companyofmen." Call me stupid. I often am. Given the editorial context, it would be natural to make a leap toward sex work or even exploitation, etc. I get it now. Thanks for helping me to that insight. I also was not aware of all the animosity that seems to be rampant in this place. In hindsight, I might have handled this all quite differently. Live and learn!
Having lived in the favela, and working now with Brota (the microentrepreneur business incubator in Vidigal) and Solar (the fabulous school in PPG) I'm super alert to the concerns you raise around narrative, access, and wealth creation/distribution. They're extremely valid issues, and I wish that more folks were able to think and speak as clearly about them as you seem to. I guess I only hope that potential visitors / contributors to the community are not paralyzed by them into inaction or cynicism. That would be a shame for them, and for the community.
Thank you again for opening my eyes. I'm grateful.

@hornyfrog Thank you so much for your excellent post. It made me think. TBH I've never visited this site or posted here before LatBear's generous post about Patrick's tours. And I don't post often anywhere; I have a profound love/hate relationship with social media. Even moreso these days. So I didn't really think about the implications -- implicit or explicit -- of posting or even discussing an otherwise 100% nonsexual topic on a site called "companyofmen." Call me stupid. I often am. Given the editorial context, it would be natural to make a leap toward sex work or even exploitation, etc. I get it now. Thanks for helping me to that insight. I also was not aware of all the animosity that seems to be rampant in this place. In hindsight, I might have handled this all quite differently. Live and learn!
Having lived in the favela, and working now with Brota (the microentrepreneur business incubator in Vidigal) and Solar (the fabulous school in PPG) I'm super alert to the concerns you raise around narrative, access, and wealth creation/distribution. They're extremely valid issues, and I wish that more folks were able to think and speak as clearly about them as you seem to. I guess I only hope that potential visitors / contributors to the community are not paralyzed by them into inaction or cynicism. That would be a shame for them, and for the community.
Thank you again for opening my eyes. I'm grateful.

Rio gringo resident here. Oh, boy…here goes…
The topic of favela tourism and its potential for exploitation is a hot one here in Rio. Adding that this is posted on sites that largely discuss gay sex tourism adds an uncomfortable layer — but an uncomfortable truth.
On this thread, I don’t think either poster here is entirely right or wrong. There are valid points on both sides, but they’re largely talking past each other. I don’t know any poster history(ies) here, but let’s just remove any seeming personal animus that some might have toward each other and discuss plainly.
Part of the disconnect might be that, in spaces just as these message boards (or in the straight men’s scene, in Facebook groups with men like “Passport Bros”), these kinds of conversations don’t ever really happen in a vacuum. Many men who travel to Brazil even partly for transactional sexcapades and spend time in saunas, hunt ads or do the adjacent sexually-charged scenes might also struggle sincerely with where genuine support ends and exploitation begins. That doesn’t particularly make anyone a saint or a predator, or a hero or a villain. It possibly reflects real attempts to navigate the asymmetries of economies, power, desire, and access — all in good faith.
Because of this and because of some real, lived experiences, some clients might naturally be more cautious about or even suspicious of activities that blur lines between tourism, poverty, exploitation and the sexual economy, especially when “authentic local experience” narratives are attached to young men from more economically vulnerable communities. Ex.: years back, on one of the previous incarnations of these boards, there was a now pretty famous guy who posted about his Rio tour services company that targeted gay male sex tourist clients, and these young, virile male Brazilian tour guides were also openly advertised as offering sexual services to these clients. 
It’s obviously true that residents of favelas like Vidigal and Rocinha survive on very little money, like almost all favelados do, and that small amounts of money to us tourists and expats can matter a whole lot to them. At the same time, economic benefit alone doesn’t automatically make every comunidade tour or locally promoted experience ethical by default.
The questions that actually matter are structural, rather than personal:
• Who organizes the activity and who controls the narrative?
• How is the money distributed, and how transparently?
• What boundaries exist around sexualization, exploitation, photography, and access?
• Does it strengthen community autonomy, or mainly serve outside onlookers’ (lookyloos’) curiosity — or even worse, normalize blurred lines that already make the locals uneasy?
Declining a specific recommendation isn’t the same as refusing to support favela residents generally, just as participating doesn’t automatically confer any grander moral virtue. Even in forums like this one, it seems pretty reasonable for people to want clarity and safeguards, rather than just having hesitation or skepticism framed as indifference or some moral failure. However, it is worth noting that a case being made against exploitation and undue influence will be easily self-sabotaged if discussed with hostility and ego flexing.
If we are being honest, conversations like this one are not just really about Vidigal, or any other favela.
They are about uneasy guilt management among foreign men coming to Brazil and other developing nations, who sit at the intersection of wealth, desire, race, sex and power asymmetry. 
Many men, straight, gay and in between, resolve whatever discomfort they may have differently: Some by participation framed as solidarity. Some by refusal framed as ethics. Some by money as absolution. Some by mere intellectual distancing.
When those strategies collide, conversations can turn ugly very fast — like what seems to have happened here (and elsewhere, like at the other board). 
 

So let me get this straight... As I am sure you know, the average Brazilian -- and virtually 100% of the people who live in a place like Vidigal -- earn the Brazilian minimum wage. That's the equivalent of about $300 USD per month. Let's pause and think about the incredible implications of this fact on the choice-making that families do to survive. So based on what you're saying, you would avoid visiting the favela to buy a hamburger or a pizza or take a community-based tour -- something that would materially improve the lives of the people who live there -- because the original recommendation came from someone you don't happen to like? I think that is enormously sad, and also disconnected from how you describe your career working with disadvantaged people. If all of my actions required an advance screening -- according to my own particular beliefs -- of the morality of the people around me, my world would become very small, and very narrow-minded, very fast. I prefer a big, messy, open-hearted world where people occasionally change their minds and evolve. It's so much more fun that way, too.

So let me get this straight... As I am sure you know, the average Brazilian -- and virtually 100% of the people who live in a place like Vidigal -- earn the Brazilian minimum wage. That's the equivalent of about $300 USD per month. Let's pause and think about the incredible implications of this fact on the choice-making that families do to survive. So based on what you're saying, you would avoid visiting the favela to buy a hamburger or a pizza or take a community-based tour -- something that would materially improve the lives of the people who live there -- because the original recommendation came from someone you don't happen to like? I think that is enormously sad, and also disconnected from how you describe your career working with disadvantaged people. If all of my actions required an advance screening -- according to my own particular beliefs -- of the morality of the people around me, my world would become very small, and very narrow-minded, very fast. I prefer a big, messy, open-hearted world where people occasionally change their minds and evolve. It's so much more fun that way, too.

I am not in the habit of commenting on posts like this -- life is short. But since this poster seems open to learning, I'll give it a shot. 
By way of introduction I am an American who has been working and vacationing in Brazil for more than 25 years. I am a cultural anthropologist and a journalist by trade, with a profound love and respect for Brazil, its people and its potential. Over the years I have lived in Rocinha (the largest favela in South America), currently live across the street from Tabajara, do volunteer work at a school in PPG, and am working with a business incubator in Vidigal. My boyfriend is a cria, and most of my closest Brazilian friends -- like 80% of the rest of the population -- lives in the favela. I am sure there are gringos who know more about favela life...but I have not met one yet.
Vidigal is interesting and unique in a number of ways, and not because it is close to Leblon. In fact, Vidigal is the favela that led the community resistance movement AGAINST gentrification. And in doing so, Vidigal established a pattern, and legal precedent, that many other communities in Brazil followed. Vidigal helped assure that the favela communities across Brazil retained internal empowerment and control against economic forces trying to erase them.
In my experience, no two favelas are the same. Some are, in fact, desperate and unsafe due to the influence of organized crime. Others are full of the kind of vibrant energy and creativity that Brazil is famous for. What is true about all of them: They are full of families who are trying to thrive, and also individuals with big dreams. In this respect, they are exactly like any community anywhere. In my opinion, visiting a favela can be a mind-expanding, even life-changing experience. It absolutely was for me. It all depends on how you onboard what you see, what you feel, how you connect, and most importantly -- how you go forward.  
As a gringo, I try to resist the urge to pontificate on what is, or is not, good for the favela and the people who live there. I've found my own answer, and it involves helping to create economic and educational opportunities for the people who live and work in these extraordinary communities. "Favela tourism" is an easy thing to bark about, and to dismiss. But the truth on the ground is vastly more nuanced. Supporting local tours that have a community-first values system is just one way that anyone can give back to the community when they visit Rio. And maybe the experience will give something back to you? 

I am not in the habit of commenting on posts like this -- life is short. But since this poster seems open to learning, I'll give it a shot. 
By way of introduction I am an American who has been working and vacationing in Brazil for more than 25 years. I am a cultural anthropologist and a journalist by trade, with a profound love and respect for Brazil, its people and its potential. Over the years I have lived in Rocinha (the largest favela in South America), currently live across the street from Tabajara, do volunteer work at a school in PPG, and am working with a business incubator in Vidigal. My boyfriend is a cria, and most of my closest Brazilian friends -- like 80% of the rest of the population -- lives in the favela. I am sure there are gringos who know more about favela life...but I have not met one yet.
Vidigal is interesting and unique in a number of ways, and not because it is close to Leblon. In fact, Vidigal is the favela that led the community resistance movement AGAINST gentrification. And in doing so, Vidigal established a pattern, and legal precedent, that many other communities in Brazil followed. Vidigal helped assure that the favela communities across Brazil retained internal empowerment and control against economic forces trying to erase them.
In my experience, no two favelas are the same. Some are, in fact, desperate and unsafe due to the influence of organized crime. Others are full of the kind of vibrant energy and creativity that Brazil is famous for. What is true about all of them: They are full of families who are trying to thrive, and also individuals with big dreams. In this respect, they are exactly like any community anywhere. In my opinion, visiting a favela can be a mind-expanding, even life-changing experience. It absolutely was for me. It all depends on how you onboard what you see, what you feel, how you connect, and most importantly -- how you go forward.  
As a gringo, I try to resist the urge to pontificate on what is, or is not, good for the favela and the people who live there. I've found my own answer, and it involves helping to create economic and educational opportunities for the people who live and work in these extraordinary communities. "Favela tourism" is an easy thing to bark about, and to dismiss. But the truth on the ground is vastly more nuanced. Supporting local tours that have a community-first values system is just one way that anyone can give back to the community when they visit Rio. And maybe the experience will give something back to you? 

For folks who are interested in actual details about Patrick's tours, as opposed to troll commentary:

For folks who are interested in actual details about Patrick's tours, as opposed to troll commentary:

For folks who are interested in actual details about Patrick's tours, as opposed to troll commentary: