Discovery gives us the first ever Star Trek gay kiss

[+ Avalon]

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/discovery-gives-us-the-first-ever-star-trek-gay-kiss/#gs.6hinGsw

 

I put this here rather in the tv forum because of the importance of this in Trek history.

[Kenny]

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/discovery-gives-us-the-first-ever-star-trek-gay-kiss/#gs.6hinGsw

 

I put this here rather in the tv forum because of the importance of this in Trek history.

It’s interesting that this event isn’t being described as “an interracial gay kiss.” Not so long ago, race would have been an added issue.

[+ Avalon]

It’s interesting that this event isn’t being described as “an interracial gay kiss.” Not so long ago, race would have been an added issue.

 

Although the doctor is Latino he does not have a Spanish name Hugh Culber.

[+ poolboy48220]

Did Sulu and his partner kiss in their brief scene in "Star Trek: Beyond"? or was it just a hug?

[MikeyGMin]

Did Sulu and his partner kiss in their brief scene in "Star Trek: Beyond"? or was it just a hug?

I believe it was just an intimate hug and then they walked off arm-in-arm with their child.

[musclvr]

The lesbian lip-lock in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Rejoined" doesn't count as the first gay kiss?

[+ Avalon]

The lesbian lip-lock in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Rejoined" doesn't count as the first gay kiss?

 

It might for some but two females doesn't do it for me.

[+ poolboy48220]

I'll let that one slide, but much of the discussion around this back when Next Gen/Voyager/etc were on was that they wanted two regular humans in a same-sex relationship. Not aliens, not even Seven of Nine. No implications that the traumatic conversion to Borg might have had something to do with her being a lesbian.

[+ Avalon]

Most straights are not afraid of lesbians. In fact for some seeing two females kiss is a turn on. But for two men to kiss - GOD FORBID, it's a sign of the end times!

[+ quoththeraven]

Most straights are not afraid of lesbians. In fact for some seeing two females kiss is a turn on. But for two men to kiss - GOD FORBID, it's a sign of the end times!

But you're also reinforcing that only men can be gay. It's an exclusionary term. Since I'm tired of maleness being treated as the standard and femaleness as deviant, I identify as queer, though I realize the term triggering for some. For me, it's the reclamation of the slur "faggot" that I don't understand.

[+ Avalon]

But you're also reinforcing that only men can be gay. It's an exclusionary term. Since I'm tired of maleness being treated as the standard and femaleness as deviant, I identify as queer, though I realize the term triggering for some. For me, it's the reclamation of the slur "faggot" that I don't understand.

 

I had thought that "gay" was the generic inclusive term for all homosexuals regardless of gender (and there are more than two) but then we got LGBT plus sometimes several more letters breaking us down and separating us into different groups.

 

I can see now that "queer" is the generic term.

[TruthBTold]

During my "time" it seemed that the Gay Revolution was inclusive - both men and woman. Prior to that time lesbians and gay men had actually been two separate communities and slowly but surely there was the emergence of a "Gay Community" which would strengthen the fight for rights. The onset of AIDS and the tremendous contribution that the lesbian community made toward the fight for proper medical care and government involvement made the bonding of the communities even stronger. To some extent, however, each community kept a certain identity. This was understandable based just on the fact that men and women have separate issues. I think that each community has subset appellation that is decided by time and community culture.

[+ Avalon]

During my "time" it seemed that the Gay Revolution was inclusive - both men and woman. Prior to that time lesbians and gay men had actually been two separate communities and slowly but surely there was the emergence of a "Gay Community" which would strengthen the fight for rights. The onset of AIDS and the tremendous contribution that the lesbian community made toward the fight for proper medical care and government involvement made the bonding of the communities even stronger. To some extent, however, each community kept a certain identity. This was understandable based just on the fact that men and women have separate issues. I think that each community has subset appellation that is decided by time and community culture.

 

That was brought out in "When We Rise" male homosexuals and lesbians uniting in a common cause.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_We_Rise

[+ Avalon]

Did Sulu and his partner kiss in their brief scene in "Star Trek: Beyond"? or was it just a hug?

 

If I hadn't read that Sulu was gay I might have missed it. I don't remember any kissing. He had a picture of some guy up on the helm but it could have been anybody. And we did see him later with the guy and the little girl it still wasn't definite they were a couple at least to me. One had to read alot into it unlike the couple on Discovery whom we've seen kiss and tell each other they loved each other.

[+ quoththeraven]

When I first heard "gay," in the 70s before the AIDS crisis, it was slang for "homosexual," which always meant men attracted to other men. In my experience, it was reporters, who needed a single shorthand term, and gay men who used it universally. All (two) lesbians I knew in college ID as lesbian, not gay.

 

That's not to say that the uniting of the communities for Pride and to combat AIDS didn't occur under the rubric of "the gay community," but that was another instance of the group with the most social power assuming it was cool for their term to be applied universally. That's falling into the same trap as the society we're trying to change. "Queer" - which was chosen as the name for scholarship around same-sex attraction and gender nom-conformity precisely because of the concern about erasing the existence of other communities - is the universal term.

[musclvr]

Interesting discussion about "gay" and "lesbian" and what those words mean(t) in certain decades. The ST:DS9 episode to which I referred about the lesbian kiss was between two members of an alien species as poolboy48220 correctly alludes. So this kiss on Discovery was the first human-human male-male same-sex kiss that has been shown in the Start Trek universe - either in the TOS or in the Kelvin universe.*

 

The DS9 episode to which I referred, arguably, was about loving what is inside a person regardless of outward physical appearance. In that episode, the Trill was the symbiotic life form, two member of which had the female same-sex kiss - outwardly female in form but in symbiosis with an apparently gender-less creature that lived inside each of them. These creatures lived much longer than the humanoid host and were transplanted into a new host when the body of the host was going to die. The two outwardly female Trillss who were kissing were re-kindling their love from when they were in different hosts, one of them male and the other female. These two Trill didn't care about the outward physical appearance that defined genders. This episode was a nice recover from a similarly themed episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation - one that I found offensive when I first watched it and still do today. In that one, the Enterprise-D's human female Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Crusher, falls in love with an outwardly male Trill. The Trill's body is damaged and the symbiont has to be transplanted into the nearest Trill host species. That is a female body. Dr. Crusher coldly (IMHO) rejects the "new" Trill even though she (by form) pleads that he is still the same person inside (the same symbiont).

 

*I am REALLY exposing my geek cred here.

[+ quoththeraven]

Interesting discussion about "gay" and "lesbian" and what those words mean(t) in certain decades. The ST:DS9 episode to which I referred about the lesbian kiss was between two members of an alien species as poolboy48220 correctly alludes. So this kiss on Discovery was the first human-human male-male same-sex kiss that has been shown in the Start Trek universe - either in the TOS or in the Kelvin universe.*

 

The DS9 episode to which I referred, arguably, was about loving what is inside a person regardless of outward physical appearance. In that episode, the Trill was the symbiotic life form, two member of which had the female same-sex kiss - outwardly female in form but in symbiosis with an apparently gender-less creature that lived inside each of them. These creatures lived much longer than the humanoid host and were transplanted into a new host when the body of the host was going to die. The two outwardly female Trillss who were kissing were re-kindling their love from when they were in different hosts, one of them male and the other female. These two Trill didn't care about the outward physical appearance that defined genders. This episode was a nice recover from a similarly themed episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation - one that I found offensive when I first watched it and still do today. In that one, the Enterprise-D's human female Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Crusher, falls in love with an outwardly male Trill. The Trill's body is damaged and the symbiont has to be transplanted into the nearest Trill host species. That is a female body. Dr. Crusher coldly (IMHO) rejects the "new" Trill even though she (by form) pleads that he is still the same person inside (the same symbiont).

 

*I am REALLY exposing my geek cred here.

Today Dr. Crusher's reaction would be considered transphobic.

[+ poolboy48220]

Interesting discussion - basically implying that having a sexual attraction for one gender over the other is some form of phobic? I can appreciate beautiful women, have many as friends, but don't want to sleep with them, does that make me women-phobic?

 

I remember the Trill episode of Next Gen, I don't remember thinking that Crusher was particularly cold in her rejection of the Trill in the new host.

[musclvr]

Interesting discussion - basically implying that having a sexual attraction for one gender over the other is some form of phobic? I can appreciate beautiful women, have many as friends, but don't want to sleep with them, does that make me women-phobic?

 

I remember the Trill episode of Next Gen, I don't remember thinking that Crusher was particularly cold in her rejection of the Trill in the new host.

Now I need to re-watch the episode ("The Host" for anybody else who is curious.)

[+ quoththeraven]

Interesting discussion - basically implying that having a sexual attraction for one gender over the other is some form of phobic? I can appreciate beautiful women, have many as friends, but don't want to sleep with them, does that make me women-phobic?

 

I remember the Trill episode of Next Gen, I don't remember thinking that Crusher was particularly cold in her rejection of the Trill in the new host.

No, it's because of the way her rejection was described. I've never seen it.

 

Also, the setup tracks transition - same person, different gender identity.