Remembering Hooboy

[Doug69]

Now that some time has elapsed since Hooboy's death, that piercing torture of grief has slowly transformed, as it always does, into the dull throb of painful, tragic absence.

 

I have been attempting - not always successfully, I must confess - to manage these emotions by trying to recollect some of my favorite Hooboy posts, focusing on the ones where he shared- in his own words, first-hand - his Vision for this site, paying particular attention where he did so with his trademark bluntness, which - no matter how honest and frank - always manage to project large doses of warmth, decency, and humanity.

 

I decided that an appropriate project - a monument, if you will - to Hooboy and his legacy of this Site, would be for all of us to compile our favorite Hooboy posts from over the years - a Hooboy scrapbook, if you will - so that we can get a better sense of the man and, as importantly, his views of this Site.

 

Rather than simply come up with the idea and then sit back waiting for others to do the work, I've resolved to be a doer - an implementer as well - and not just an "Idea Man."

 

Accordingly, I've taken the time to locate and, herewith, post for you, my favorite Hooboy posts (with one added bonus of one from Daddy at the end, echoing Hooboy's thoughts at the time).

 

Enjoy! And do join in and add your own:

_____________________________________

 

HooBoy Tue Mar-02-04 08:42 AM

Member since Dec 01st 2000

2262 posts

 

#65981, "RE: Doug69 - Best Post of the Week"

In response to Reply # 5

 

I have been bombarded with requests to ban Doug69 from this site. But the irony is that he gets to post his opinions, no matter how outrageous they may be.

 

I may not agree with him, but he always backs up his points with facts from respected journalists and makes this site more interesting unlike the desert rats who have no agenda other than to kill all of us in the long run . . .

________________

 

HooBoy Tue Mar-02-04 10:32 PM

Member since Dec 01st 2000

2262 posts

 

#66006, "RE: Doug69 - Best Post of the Week"

In response to Reply # 12

Tue Mar-02-04 10:34 PM by HooBoy

 

 

 

Dear Lucky,

 

Since this thread is actually about a member here, the "attack the issues, not the people" really is tough to enforce -- even when the attack is at me (I think it was Big Guy From Pasadena.)

. . .

Meantime, those who do not like to read what Doug writes, just skip it. Like the Nancy cartoon in the papers.

 

____________________________________

 

Daddy Thu Aug-05-04 08:19 PM

Charter member

399 posts

 

#70588, "What's wrong with this picture?"

Fri Aug-06-04 08:08 AM by Daddy

 

Given the level of indignant rhetoric that's floating around, its really amazing to me that a few of you are missing the point.

 

Case in point: Doug69 and I rarely agree on anything, but he's still here. In the last two weeks he's generated more alerts than any other user, but he's still here. Have you ever wondered why? If you look at his posts, you'll find that almost without exception he attacks the issue, not the person. He has a rather amazing talent to hammer in a point without resorting to name calling. I respect that in a person immensely even when they piss me off.

 

____________________________

 

There are some nice, similar sentiments like this expressed by HB and Daddy about Woodlawn, too. I was going to post them, but I concluded that it would be wrong of me to use the nice things said about Woodlawn by HB and others as part of my reminiscing. After all, the memories each of us has of Hooboy are special and profoundly personal, and none of us has the right to take that away from any Other.

 

HB was very articulate and very clear about his view of this Site and about what it should be - about the type of "COMMUNITY" in the real sense of that word he hoped to create. I, for one, fervently hope that we honor HB's memory and his legacy by preserving, continuing and promoting - rather than reversing, dishonoring, and obliterating - his wishes and his spirt - a spirit which, regardless of whether his memory is honored here, will always live in each of us.

 

Nobody can take that away - ever. Nobody.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>...that piercing torture of grief has slowly transformed, as it

>always does, into the dull throb of painful, tragic absence.

>

 

 

ROFL.... Thanks for starting of my day off like that. Even more appreciated that you took time off from remembering HooBoy at other sites to share your memories here. Thanks again for a great start to my day. :7

[hed4str8]

Yeah, TY, it's funny all right, but probably not in the way intended. Still, it's so ponderously done, I find it hard to believe that Dougie meant it as yet another display of his nimble and sardonic wit. Since it's a reminder that even Hooboy put up with his boorishness (once, at least), and since there's a passing reference to Woodlawn, I wonder if it's some kind of premonition that they're both going to get booted out of here at any moment. With ChgoBoy finally cast into outer darkness, how much longer can they hang on?

 

In any case, I hope Dougie's self-destructive bent (matched only by Woodlawn's) does the trick--and soon. But if Daddy would just administer the coup de grace without any further provocation, it might even be good for a twofer.

 

After all, it was Woodlawn who recently said "I only keep coming here because a few of the others who are 'anyone' keep coming here. When they're gone, so am I."

 

Absent the other weird sisters, he just might vanish, too!

[Doug69]

Since it's a reminder that even

>Hooboy put up with his boorishness (once, at least) . . .

 

That's not what Hooboy said he was doing - it's really wrong of you to put words in his mouth that are the opposite of what he said and thought just in order to promote your own personal goals here. It's disgusting, really.

 

Here's what he DID say: "I may not agree with him, but he always backs up his points with facts from respected journalists and makes this site more interesting unlike the desert rats who have no agenda other than to kill all of us in the long run . . ."

 

Whose views do you think should govern how this site should operate - Hooboy's or yours? Your post - and your never-ending whiny demands that people you don't like be expelled from here, something HB NEVER did - make the answer rather clear. And it's really vile.

 

 

>In any case, I hope Dougie's self-destructive bent (matched

>only by Woodlawn's) does the trick--and soon. But if Daddy

>would just administer the coup de grace without any further

>provocation, it might even be good for a twofer.

 

Here, this person - notable for absolutely nothing in terms of contributions to this site (other than to make clear with his name that he can't find gay men attractive and only wants to have sex by kneeling to straight guys) - announces that he wants two posters who posted here for years while HB was running this place, and whom HB unambiguously praised as positive contributions to his site, to be expelled immediately.

 

In other words, HB, who founded the Site, ran it for years a certain way and made clear what his thoughts and desires were concerning what this place should be and how it should be governed.

 

Then, he dies, and a mere couple of months later, a parade of guys like this come here and start screaming that whatever HB wanted and thought should be completely ignored and forgotten - and it should all be immediately replaced by a completely new way of managing the place that HB never wanted, never implemented, and expressly rejected -- all because he wants a couple of posters whom he dislikes (but whom HB thought added greatly to the place) to be expelled and excluded.

 

Is there any possible behavior more distasteful and despicable than this?

[raife]

I had said something nice & in tribute here, but then I read a long venomous ad hominem diatribe on that other site that triggered a swift and thorough rethink...

 

desert rats indeed!

[hed4str8]

Yes, it's truly surreal to read, first, what these guys have to say on their own turf, and then to watch them swing into action over here. Breathtaking, the change! Something to be experienced for sure. (Sorry, don't have the link but it appears in one of ChcgoBoy's earliest posts after the reopening.) Go there and see the hateful vomitum they wallow in, then watch them come over here, all cleaned up and on their best behavior, to mock everyone and everything with their parodies of highminded, principled posts. These guys are scary--seriously. Check it out. But, I warn you, a visit to their site is like being trapped in a glass case full of prowling tarantulas. (The most vicious posts are almost hidden away at the bottom of the home page--in such threads as "Who was Hooboy?")

[woodlawn]

>Go there and see the hateful vomitum they wallow

>in, then watch them come over here, all cleaned up and on

>their best behavior, to mock everyone and everything with

>their parodies of highminded, principled posts. These guys

>are scary--seriously. Check it out. But, I warn you, a visit

>to their site is like being trapped in a glass case full of

>prowling tarantulas.

 

I'm tired of your smug hypocrisy. In a recent thread here you denied that you ever complain about the insulting posts of others and challenged me to find such a complaint. I did, but the quote above is an even better example than the one I referred to in responding to your lying denial.

 

Your repeated accusations about the vitriol in others' posts are not appropriate coming from someone with as many nasty insults on his record as you have. Some of your more recent posts on the other board are as hateful as anything I've seen in years, and if I ever again see you denounce anyone else for engaging in personal attacks I will start posting some choice quotes from you on this board. Try me.

[hed4str8]

I've just reviewed Doug's last two pieces of performance art, and I gotta say it: this guy has BALLS! He dares to quote Hooboy praising him thus:

 

"If you look at his posts, you'll find that almost without exception he attacks the issue, not the person. He has a rather amazing talent to hammer in a point without resorting to name calling. I respect that in a person immensely even when they piss me off."

 

Quite apart from the obvious fact that we have NO idea when Hooboy wrote that (or in what context), we DO have the witness of our own eyes over the past week alone to see just how gracefully Dougie eschews personal attacks and name calling as he "hammer(s) in a point."

[Boston Guy]

You've got to wonder just how kindly HB would have looked upon Doug after having his driver's license posted for all the crazy gay-haters in the world to see.

 

BG

[hed4str8]

You're coming apart at the seams, Doug. Sputtering any old BS you can muster--and with no further care now for literary flourishes and lofty thoughts, I see. It's absurd to equate my many putdowns of you(all of them richly deserved) with the potty-mouthed ravings you use to avoid confronting issues honestly and arguing them in a respectful, civil way. As regards ANYTHING I've ever posted--either here or over in your place--please feel free to post it again. You have both my blessing and my encouragement. (But remember, you'll end up looking even more foolish than you already do.)

[woodlawn]

> we DO have the witness

>of our own eyes over the past week alone to see just how

>gracefully Dougie eschews personal attacks and name calling as

>he "hammer(s) in a point."

 

Here are a couple of recent posts from you. After glancing at them, I think just about anyone will wonder where the fuck you get off criticizing anyone else for personal attacks.

 

"Dougie-Wuggy, you DO have a problem counting, don't you?

And the reason why the question had to be repeated even that often relates nicely to ChiChiGirl's 'ostrich' tale--you know, that ponderously worked-out Asshole's Fable he posted in the Other Place."

 

"And BTW, I have neither the wish nor need to kill this site. It will die of natural causes--if such malignancies as you and the other Mean Girls can, indeed, be termed natural."

 

"Aside from the lickspittle Twinklover, a pair of escorts looking to drum up some biz, a few one-timers like LukeRevealed, stringdrivenmachine, and spencerswede, et al.,--just who are the guys keeping things so 'vibrant and active' around here?"

 

You engage in namecalling like the above on the other site, then come here and warn people not to venture to the other site because of all the dreadful, hateful posts to be found there. Could your hypocrisy possibly be any more blatant? I really don't see how.

[Doug69]

>I've just reviewed Doug's last two pieces of performance art,

>and I gotta say it: this guy has BALLS! He dares to quote

>Hooboy praising him thus:

>

>"If you look at his posts, you'll find that almost without

>exception he attacks the issue, not the person. He has a

>rather amazing talent to hammer in a point without resorting

>to name calling. I respect that in a person immensely even

>when they piss me off."

 

Actually, that quite eloquent and gentlemanly quote was from "Daddy," and it wasn't all that long ago.

 

The posts from HB were also rather recent. They were sweepingly complimentary of my posts and the way they enhance the value of the community he was devoted to building.

 

I posted here for several years and was never once told by HB that a single post was inappropriate or that my participation here was undesirable or should be restricted. Quite the contrary, as the raves from him which I posted demonstrated.

 

If mass explusions of long-time members are to be the order of the day, so be it. I'm just making clear that nobody can invoke HB's views and vision of the site to justify it - at least not with any honesty.

 

Anyone advocating or implementing these sorts of measures is really compelled to acknowledge that what they are doing actually contradicts and violates HB's clearly expressed wishes for the site and his belief in how it should be operated, but that they just don't care that this is so because, well, it's not like he's around to complain about it.

 

That's what is so sad - all of this is being done in direct violation of everything HB did and said he wanted for this forum. If that were at least acknowledged, one could stomach it.

[hed4str8]

Sorry, Woodlouse, I thought I was replying to Doug! It's hard to tell you tarantulas apart.

 

Oh, yes, BG! But the license (since yanked in that otherwise freewheeling forum) was just a smidgen of the sliming that has

been going on there for the past month. Sliming not just the sainted Hooboy so touchingly evoked above--but several other prominent

MC figures who are still very much among us.

 

(NOTE: I'll stipulate to my viciousness in hurling so vitriolic an insult as 'woodlouse' at a brother-member of Woodlawn's sensitivity.)

[hed4str8]

Oh, just try to stomach it, will you?

[Boston Guy]

Mass expulsions? "Mass" expulsions?

 

Perhaps you could make a list for us of all the people who have been expelled. "Mass expulsions" makes it sound like there must be thousands of people who can no longer post here. Or at least hundreds, right, who have had their posting privileges withdrawn? And, if not hundreds, at least tens of loyal M4M'ers who can no longer post, right?

 

And if that's the case, sure you could make a list of, say, 15 or 20 of them for us? Easy, right? Go right ahead. Let the rest of us see the list of people who have been expelled as part of the "mass expulsions".

 

Oh, I can hear you say, there haven't been mass expulsions yet? There have only been two or three??? The mass expulsions are still to come, huh? So it must not be mass expulsions you're raving about. What then? The new rules? As far as I can tell, they're virtually the same as the last set of rules -- the ones HB wrote. So it can't be that, can it?

 

No, it must be some other thing you and your friends are claiming is "so sad". Something that was allowed before and isn't now. Tell us what it really is, Doug.

 

BG

[+ Lucky]

"Actually, that quite eloquent and gentlemanly quote was from "Daddy," and it wasn't all that long ago."

 

I haven't noticed you referring to Daddy as eloquent or a gentleman over on the other website.

 

I have no doubt that anything he might have said complimentary to you was before you started a thread calling daddy "psychologically ill."

 

And your other thread over there you started about Hooboy not being in his right mnind the last two years of his life might explain anything good he had to say about you?

 

Sorry to pierce your grief, Doug.

[Doug69]

>Mass expulsions? "Mass" expulsions?

 

Yes. Yes.

 

>Perhaps you could make a list for us of all the people who

>have been expelled.

 

Why yes, I'd be delighted to respond to this most relevant inquiry you've posed and furnish the information you are seeking, Sir.

 

In the past three weeks alone, the following people have been expelled from this club: Erik, Taylor, EastBayGuy, BewareOfNick, and ChcgoBoy. That's 5 people - in 3 weeks.

 

Contrast that to the policies and practices of this Club when Hooboy was still around. Here's how Daddy described it a short time ago, when HB was still running things:

 

<<Consider that out of the thousands of people that are registered on the board, only three have been 86d permanently. In my opinion we have a fairly good track record.

 

In each of those three cases, they were allowed back in multiple times. In each of those three cases, it is easier to keep them out than it is to deal with the fallout that they create.

 

http://babydb.male4malescorts.com/m4mdc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=70588>>

 

So, when HB was the gentleman managing this club, it expelled a grand total of 3 members over the course of 6 years. By rather stark contrast, 5 members have been booted out in the past 3 weeks alone.

 

If you can't acknowledge that this constitutes a radical departure from the way HB managed this club and wanted it managed, all of the intellectual honesty has been drained out of you and replaced completely by the blind loyalty of an abject apologist.

 

And in a forum where there are maybe a total of 100 truly active posters, zapping 5 in 3 weeks certainly constitutes "mass explusions" in every sense of that phrase.

 

And virtually nobody thinks that we're at the end of the purge.

 

You can defend it all you want, but please don't pretend it's the way HB did things or wanted things to be, and please don't deny what it is.

[hed4str8]

>

>In the past three weeks alone, the following people have been

>expelled from this club: Erik, Taylor, EastBayGuy,

>BewareOfNick, and ChcgoBoy. That's 5 people - in 3 weeks.

>

 

It's a start, anyway. Seven would be a better figure, though. Besides having a more mystical resonance, it lends itself to all sorts of catchy phrases. 'The Cesspool Seven,' for instance.

 

As it is, the five named above vary greatly in character and worth. Erik (an older & wiser version of Ethan) has--I think--disavowed any further interest in posting here, and, frankly, that's a loss: he's bright, has interesting things to say, and puts them succinctly. He is no mindless hatemonger. Taylor, more of a follower than a firebrand, is just plain silly most of the time. About EastBayGuy (or Person) I don't know much, but he seems to be a bland, bureaucratic type. BewareOfNick, of course, is the original caped crusader (that moniker harks back to a long-ago obsession with an escort he hated, don't forget), while ChgoBoy shows almost as much sociopathy as the once-notorious SeanWorldEscort, and may be twice as longwinded.

 

Actually, Woodlawn and Doug--though still here--are arguably worse and more duplicitous than any of the five already booted. Whoever cares to make the needed evaluation would do well to peruse their works and days on their own site. Over there, all masks are dropped.

[kjun]

Pray tell us, the ignorant, what the "other" web site is. These mentions of it sound like passages from Harry Potter.

 

the Cajun

[hed4str8]

Here you go!

 

http://p101.ezboard.com/brevoltrevolt20873

[Boston Guy]

Boy, your memory certainly is selective.

 

HB kicked out people on a regular basis, going back a long way. They were usually let back in, after a while, because that's the kind of guy HB was. As Daddy said, only three were banned permanently. But HB wasn't facing a direct threat from a group of people who are on record as wanting to damage M4M itself. I doubt he would have felt so kindly toward such a group.

 

Five people, huh? Out of thousands? You consider that 'mass expulsions'? I see it as simply more exaggerated claims of injustice trying to stir people up against M4M. You're like the leader of a small group of revolutionaries who needs to keep making fiery speeches just to keep the passions burning. All the while the real reasons behind the revolution are kept hidden from those on the front lines.

 

But five, you say? Are you certain? Are you absolutely certain that each of these five people cannot log into M4M? That each one has emailed Daddy and asked for his current password and has been told that he cannot log in?

 

And, further, are you absolutely certain that each of these five have been permanently banned? Are you certain that they have not just been given 30-day suspensions as called for in the new rules?

 

Jeez, Doug, I think maybe you ought to check your facts. I bet that even your little list of five isn't as big as you claim.

 

BG

[Doug69]

>Boy, your memory certainly is selective.

 

I wasn't relying on my memory. I was quoting Daddy's post, in which he said that - prior to HB's death - only 3 people had been permanently excluded here.

 

>HB kicked out people on a regular basis, going back a long

>way. They were usually let back in, after a while, because

>that's the kind of guy HB was. As Daddy said, only three were

>banned permanently.

 

Right, and in the short time since HB's death, far more have been banned than in the entire 6 years prior when HB was running the place.

 

But HB wasn't facing a direct threat from

>a group of people who are on record as wanting to damage M4M

>itself. I doubt he would have felt so kindly toward such a

>group.

 

Nice try, but other than ChgoBoy, all of the people I named were banned BEFORE that other board formed. In fact, that board was largely a reaction to those banishments and the threats which preceded them.

 

Trying to justify the banishments by reference to that other Board is like trying to justify the September 11 attacks by reference to the Iraq War.

 

Where A chronologically precedes B, B cannot be the cause of A. You get that, right?

 

>Five people, huh? Out of thousands? You consider that 'mass

>expulsions'?

 

Sorry to burst your little bubble, but there is nowhere near "thousands" of active posters on this Board. If you define active poster even so liberally as to mean someone who posts here at least once a week, I'd say the number is way closer to 100 than it is to 1,000, let alone "thousands."

 

And yeah, I'd say that 5 explusions (actually 6, counting Trilingual) in 3 weeks (and counting) is substantial in light of the limited number of posters who actively participate here.

 

>But five, you say? Are you certain? Are you absolutely

>certain that each of these five people cannot log into M4M?

>That each one has emailed Daddy and asked for his current

>password and has been told that he cannot log in?

 

Unlike you, I'm not a member in Good Standing of the obedient cadre of apologists here who are privvy to such weighty internal matters. I know what I know - that 6 people have had their memberships revoked in the past 3 weeks, and one of them - Trlingual - was re-admitted only after agreeing to endure a ritualistic humiliation whereby he was forced to grovel and degrade himself for a full week.

 

>And, further, are you absolutely certain that each of these

>five have been permanently banned? Are you certain that they

>have not just been given 30-day suspensions as called for in

>the new rules?

 

I know that none of them received the in-box warning that your rules provided for prior to explusion. I also know that all of them have discussed their explusion and none has said anything about the explusion being finite in nature.

 

Either way, these mass purges are expressly contrary to the vision HB had for his site, as expressed in the excerpts I posted, and are squarely contrary to the way he ran it.

[Barry]

"I also know that all of them have discussed their explusion and none has said anything about the explusion being finite in nature."

 

So? The fact none has discussed it or admitted it means it isn't so? I realize the words "expulsion", "banned", "bannishment" are so much more dramatic than suspension but merely repeating them over and over and over doesn't make them facts.

 

Barry

[Doug69]

>So? The fact none has discussed it or admitted it means it

>isn't so? I realize the words "expulsion", "banned",

>"bannishment" are so much more dramatic than suspension but

>merely repeating them over and over and over doesn't make them

>facts.

 

If you expel people from here by cutting their memebership off and those people go around telling everyone this, and then - at some point in time thereafter - you and your little cadre secretely decide that at some point in the future, you're going to reverse this explusion, but you don't tell anyone about it except for a Chosen Few, it's a bit irrational, and quite silly, to blame those whom you haven't told for not knowing it, wouldn't you agree?

[Barry]

I'm not blaming anyone for anything in this regard. I only suggest you talk to your buds and get the facts. Nothing more.

 

Barry