Call Me By Your Name

[OCClient]

Love how that alternate ending splices in a piece from the audiobook, which is a must listen.

 

*****************BOOK SPOILER*****************************************************

Towlerode mentions how in the book they meet 15 years later, but omits they speak on the phone before that, when Oliver and family visit the villa. That was when Oliver had to stop for his tears and his being choked up at the memories of Elio and the villa that summer, or perhaps at the memory of his grief, having left behind his cor cordium, as Oliver referred to the memory of his Elio in the book.

[TruHart1]

André Aciman at the Toronto Film Festival, 2018:

"Intimacy is a strange little beast because you can start being very intimate with someone at the beginning of the relationship and contrary to what the trajectory is, people become less and less intimate. They begin to shut the door to the bathroom when once upon the time the bathroom door was open and I´m talking from personal experience. And it´s very strange. Intimacy is the ability to be completely ductile to the other person. The other person is just basically pours and you pour into them. It is, among other things, the absence of complete shame vis-à-vis each other. In point of fact the intimacy is irreducible. You cannot define it. It´s the ability to just become the other person and to want the other person to take over whoever you are to the point where there is no such thing as you and me. Now this is difficult to occurring because every day we go to work, the one goes to work, the other one goes to different job, comes back tired. But the intimacy is the ability to cohabit completely. And what is beautiful, it occurs especially when we are very young and the doors that we build between individuals are very thin, they are paper thin walls. And I love this idea because eventally those doors will become harder and harder to open and we become sort of locked onto ourselves which is not a great thing. But I do think that what Oliver and Elio do have is a complete intimacy. There´s no shame between them. They´re calling each other by their own names! How more embarrassing can it be? Seriously? You are calling me by your name?! But it means something. And if you think about it in the moment of passion when you call the other person by your name you´re giving them the biggest gift that you can ever give. You are me. I happen to like myself. And therefore I´m giving you the best thing there is in the world. How can it be better than that?"

 

 

TruHart1

[TruHart1]

BOOK SPOILERs --- SPECIFICALLY AUDIOBOOK SPOILERS

 

Here is an impressive fan video which uses Armie's narration of the book (Elio's words) with bits of the film:

 

TruHart1

[marylander1940]

It also makes the relationship slightly pervy. Just sayin’...

 

Just like a gay version of "Lolita"...?

[TruHart1]

Just like a gay version of "Lolita"...?

Though Lolita portrays a 36 or 37 year-old man (in first person narration) who is sexually obsessed with and actively pursuing a 12 year-old girl, I would never equate Humbert Humbert's sexual obsession with 24 year-old Oliver's simple sexual attraction (which he keeps completely in check at the beginning --- so well, in fact, that Elio constantly has doubts whether Oliver has any attraction to him at all!) to Elio, who at 17, begins to become obsessed sexually with Oliver and then Elio becomes the active sexual pursuer.

 

Maybe if Oliver was portrayed as being sexually obsessed with Elio, actively trying to seduce him, there might be a slim case for this story being "pervy," but the fact that Elio is three years older than the legal age of consent in Italy and there is but a seven year difference between them, the idea that this story portrays any "perversion" can only be attributed to a reader's or film-viewer's personal sexual hang-ups, in my opinion.

 

TruHart1

[marylander1940]

Though Lolita portrays a 36 or 37 year-old man (in first person narration) who is sexually obsessed with and actively pursuing a 12 year-old girl, I would never equate Humbert Humbert's sexual obsession with 24 year-old Oliver's simple sexual attraction (which he keeps completely in check at the beginning --- so well, in fact, that Elio constantly has doubts whether Oliver has any attraction to him at all!) to Elio, who at 17, begins to become obsessed sexually with Oliver and then Elio becomes the active sexual pursuer.

 

Maybe if Oliver was portrayed as being sexually obsessed with Elio, actively trying to seduce him, there might be a slim case for this story being "pervy," but the fact that Elio is three years older than the legal age of consent in Italy and there is but a seven year difference between them, the idea that this story portrays any "perversion" can only be attributed to a reader's or film-viewer's personal sexual hang-ups, in my opinion.

 

TruHart1

 

Good point, pardon my lack of knowledge on this 2 movies.

[+ Gar1eth]

Though Lolita portrays a 36 or 37 year-old man (in first person narration) who is sexually obsessed with and actively pursuing a 12 year-old girl, I would never equate Humbert Humbert's sexual obsession with 24 year-old Oliver's simple sexual attraction (which he keeps completely in check at the beginning --- so well, in fact, that Elio constantly has doubts whether Oliver has any attraction to him at all!) to Elio, who at 17, begins to become obsessed sexually with Oliver and then Elio becomes the active sexual pursuer.

 

Maybe if Oliver was portrayed as being sexually obsessed with Elio, actively trying to seduce him, there might be a slim case for this story being "pervy," but the fact that Elio is three years older than the legal age of consent in Italy and there is but a seven year difference between them, the idea that this story portrays any "perversion" can only be attributed to a reader's or film-viewer's personal sexual hang-ups, in my opinion.

 

TruHart1

 

 

I don’t know. I’m not saying it’s smutty. But while 7 years might not be quite so bad from 20 to 27, 7 years from 17 to 24 doesn’t seem quite right to me. I don’t even care if legally it’s ok in Italy. I mean I’d say 14 is too young no matter whether it’s legal or not.

 

Gman

[TruHart1]

I don’t know. I’m not saying it’s smutty. But while 7 years might not be quite so bad from 20 to 27, 7 years from 17 to 24 doesn’t seem quite right to me. I don’t even care if legally it’s ok in Italy. I mean I’d say 14 is too young no matter whether it’s legal or not.

 

Gman

So, you prove my point! As I was trying to say, it is in your viewpoint that a 17 year-old with a 24 year-old "doesn't seem quite right." Thus the biblical story comes to mind of Susannah, who is condemned by the church Elders for innocently bathing naked in the creek behind her house, but being accidently seen by them, stirring up prurient, sinful thoughts in them, and causes them to drive her out of their congregation. The sin (or perverseness!) is not in Susannah, but in the Elders' minds.

 

Besides, I already know your opinion about Timothée stealing your husband Armie, (in that parallel universe! ) so this feeling of not seeming quite right appears pretty personal from where I stand. My opinion is that Call Me By Your Name is in no way, shape, or form, a depiction of paedophilia by any true definition of that word!

 

TruHart1

[+ Gar1eth]

So, you prove my point! As I was trying to say, it is in your viewpoint that a 17 year-old with a 24 year-old "doesn't seem quite right." Thus the biblical story comes to mind of Susannah, who is condemned by the church Elders for innocently bathing naked in the creek behind her house, but being accidently seen by them, stirring up prurient, sinful thoughts in them, and causes them to drive her out of their congregation. The sin (or perverseness!) is not in Susannah, but in the Elders' minds.

 

Besides, I already know your opinion about Timothée stealing your husband Armie, (in that parallel universe! ) so this feeling of not seeming quite right appears pretty personal from where I stand. My opinion is that Call Me By Your Name is in no way, shape, or form, a depiction of paedophilia by any true definition of that word!

 

TruHart1

 

Oh I wasn’t calling it pedophilia. I’m just not comfortable with the age difference.

 

And if only Armie and I were on the same side of the dimensional warp, ahh what a happy man I’d be.

 

Gman

[Kenny]

Just like a gay version of "Lolita"...?

Hardly.

[OCClient]

Seems most don't know the definition of pedophilia, e.g. priests are generally not pedophiles. Their victims have all reached puberty.

 

In the case of Oliver, he did not come from a position of power and did not plot, trick, intimidate or cheat Elio in any way.

 

I agree 100% @TruHart1 . It seem others are quick to paint their own layer of filth over too many things that are mostly innocent and beautiful, especially when it is a same sex relationship.

 

Aciman pooh-poohs the idea of an age problem with his story. I agree with Aciman and say pooh-pooh to those that call it filth.

 

Elio was loved by a man named Oliver. In the book we learned how that love never died. Seemed genuine.

[+ Gar1eth]

Seems most don't know the definition of pedophilia, e.g. priests are generally not pedophiles. Their victims have all reached puberty.

 

In the case of Oliver, he did not come from a position of power and did not plot, trick, intimidate or cheat Elio in any way.

 

I agree 100% @TruHart1 . It seem others are quick to paint their own layer of filth over too many things that are mostly innocent and beautiful, especially when it is a same sex relationship.

 

Aciman pooh-poohs the idea of an age problem with his story. I agree with Aciman and say pooh-pooh to those that call it filth.

 

I’d be uncomfortable with a 17 year old girl and a 24 year old guy, or a 17 year old boy with a 24 year old woman too. There are developmental stages we go thru. I’m going to that not all 17 year olds have gone thru then yet.

 

Gman

[rogerG]

Timothée Chalamet re-visited Jimmy Kimmel the other night:

 

 

And Jimmy announced Timothée's new GQ cover:

 

http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2018114/rs_634x890-180214085345-634-timothee-chalamet-gq-021418.jpg?fit=inside%7C900:auto&output-quality=100

[TruHart1]

Once again, small BOOK SPOILERS below:

I’d be uncomfortable with a 17 year old girl and a 24 year old guy, or a 17 year old boy with a 24 year old woman too. There are developmental stages we go thru. I’m going to that not all 17 year olds have gone thru then yet.

 

Gman

But! That is part and parcel of the book and the film, my dear friend @Gar1eth! Elio is actually moving through a new developmental stage in his life. He meets, is sexually intrigued by, and becomes completely obsessed with this "confident, cold, somewhat aloof" Americano. He finally initiates the seduction of Oliver himself, though Oliver would have held himself in check were it not for the active sexual pursuit by Elio, who, in the novel, compares himself in a portion of the book to how he feels that Oliver may actually be an older version of himself.

 

I must be candid here. At 17, I had obsessive sexual crushes on a number of my fellow high school male students. I actually kept a list of all the guys I lusted after, which I found just a little while ago! I was raised far too strictly religious, feeling my fantasies were sinful to ever actively pursue, though I did masturbate constantly thinking of these young classmates of mine. If I'd been raised like Elio, in an openly permissive atmosphere, with parents who happily let me experiment sexually, who knows?

 

...and before you bring up the age difference, I have never forgotten the insatiable lust I felt for my 23 year-old junior high gym coach when I was but 14 years old. My sexual fantasies of him after I witnessed him changing out of his street clothes into gym clothes, (yes, he was naked as he changed and showing a soft but very impressive endowment, along with putting on a jockstrap, highlighting his absolutely perfect ass!) became to me the most exciting sexual image I had ever seen over the following 10 or 15 or so years, and the basis for many, many masturbatory fantasies, which I still recall as being tremendously memorable!

 

I still recall, how when a gym classmate at the time announced that this coach was a newlywed, having just married his wife over the previous summer, I felt a bit of jealousy and a frisson of forbidden sexual excitement as I imagined him (one of my many, many masturbatory fantasies about him!) having intercourse with his young wife, though I had never seen her! He was my sexually ideal man well into my thirties! Some of my most memorable escort hires have made me recall him, too, since a number of them have a body as gorgeous as his was back then!!!

 

So all this to say how much I have identified with Elio in the novel and the film! It does not hurt that I have lusted after Armie Hammer myself since way before he was in The Social Network, perhaps imagining he and I married to each other myself in my own alternate universe! :)

 

TruHart1

[+ Hoover42]

Call Me By Your Name is now available on the iTunes store for download.

[Kenny]

Seems most don't know the definition of pedophilia, e.g. priests are generally not pedophiles. Their victims have all reached puberty.

If you think priests’ victims “have all reached puberty,” you have not been paying attention. Jeez.

[marylander1940]

Hardly.

 

It also makes the relationship slightly pervy. Just sayin’...

 

Hardly pervy...

[Kenny]

Hardly pervy...

The reference was to casting Armie Hammer, who is in his 30s, not 24, and looks it. Nice try though.

[marylander1940]

The reference was to casting Armie Hammer, who is in his 30s, not 24, and looks it. Nice try though.

 

That was the whole point of my point. Yet as @TruHart1 pointed Lolita was about a 12 y/o and a 37 y/o... that's pervy, isn't it.

 

A guy in his 30's playing someone a few years younger is not that uncommon in Hollywood now a days. 90210 guys were in their mid to late 20's while playing High School students.

 

I'm moving on.

[+ WilliamM]

Good point, pardon my lack of knowledge on this 2 movies.

 

It is not your fault. At this point there is very little left to discuss. I read the book and saw both films because I was taking a course on books into films. Otherwise I may never have read the book. Excellent book.

[+ WilliamM]

...and before you bring up the age difference, I have never forgotten the insatiable lust I felt for my 23 year-old junior high gym coach when I was but 14 years old.

 

Interesting because my fantasies were all about middle school and high school male students my own age never about older guys. It may explain why I have only seen "Call Me By Your Name" once.

[+ WilliamM]

f you think priests’ victims “have all reached puberty,” you have not been paying attention. Jeez.

 

Again this discussion may have gone on too long. I can understand the Lolita mistake because the films and the book are old news compared to priests and their victims.

[marylander1940]

Interesting because my fantasies were all about middle school and high school male students my own age never about older guys. It may explain why I have only seen "Call Me By Your Name" once.

 

Me too!

 

When I was 18 I thought guys in their mid 20's were old... Now I think 40ish is young as long as the guy is in shape, something very unusual now a days.

[+ Gar1eth]

I’d be uncomfortable with a 17 year old girl and a 24 year old guy, or a 17 year old boy with a 24 year old woman too. There are developmental stages we go thru. I’m going to that not all 17 year olds have gone thru then yet.

 

Gman

 

Once again, small BOOK SPOILERS below:

 

But! That is part and parcel of the book and the film, my dear friend @Gar1eth! Elio is actually moving through a new developmental stage in his life. He meets, is sexually intrigued by, and becomes completely obsessed with this "confident, cold, somewhat aloof" Americano. He finally initiates the seduction of Oliver himself, though Oliver would have held himself in check were it not for the active sexual pursuit by Elio, who, in the novel, compares himself in a portion of the book to how he feels that Oliver may actually be an older version of himself.

 

I must be candid here. At 17, I had obsessive sexual crushes on a number of my fellow high school male students. I actually kept a list of all the guys I lusted after, which I found just a little while ago! I was raised far too strictly religious, feeling my fantasies were sinful to ever actively pursue, though I did masturbate constantly thinking of these young classmates of mine. If I'd been raised like Elio, in an openly permissive atmosphere, with parents who happily let me experiment sexually, who knows?

 

...and before you bring up the age difference, I have never forgotten the insatiable lust I felt for my 23 year-old junior high gym coach when I was but 14 years old. My sexual fantasies of him after I witnessed him changing out of his street clothes into gym clothes, (yes, he was naked as he changed and showing a soft but very impressive endowment, along with putting on a jockstrap, highlighting his absolutely perfect ass!) became to me the most exciting sexual image I had ever seen over the following 10 or 15 or so years, and the basis for many, many masturbatory fantasies, which I still recall as being tremendously memorable!

 

I still recall, how when a gym classmate at the time announced that this coach was a newlywed, having just married his wife over the previous summer, I felt a bit of jealousy and a frisson of forbidden sexual excitement as I imagined him (one of my many, many masturbatory fantasies about him!) having intercourse with his young wife, though I had never seen her! He was my sexually ideal man well into my thirties! Some of my most memorable escort hires have made me recall him, too, since a number of them have a body as gorgeous as his was back then!!!

 

I’m not saying it’s abnormal for you to have had those desires. I had crushes on certain guys and teenagers at a much younger age. I can remember having occasional dreams about some of my PE teachers (and others) when I was around 13. Nothing much happened in the dreams. When it got to a certain point, I’d have a ‘wet dream’ and that usually woke me up. I just think 24 is too old for 17. If you said 20 and 27, I don’t know if I’d be totally sanguine. But I would prefer it.

 

... It does not hurt that I have lusted after Armie Hammer myself since way before he was in The Social Network, perhaps imagining he and I married to each other myself in my own alternate universe! :)

 

TruHart1

 

Please stay away from my man Armie!!!

 

Gman

[OCClient]

That was the whole point of my point. Yet as @TruHart1 pointed Lolita was about a 12 y/o and a 37 y/o... that's pervy, isn't it.

 

A guy in his 30's playing someone a few years younger is not that uncommon in Hollywood now a days. 90210 guys were in their mid to late 20's while playing High School students.

 

I'm moving on.

A writing instructor of mine read from Lolita to the class. The thing about Lolita is that is great writing. So she asked whether the story itself is reason enough to ignore great writing.

 

Same thing in At Swim, Two Boys. Did the young Irish gentleman overstep by being sexual with Doyler or Jim, and is that enough to rule out the book. Of course not.

 

The movie LOEV was omitted by OutFest, likely for a scene that is quite bad behavior, but should we totally ignore a great movie for that instance?

 

Can people at least comment on the quality of art to balance their agenda against the content? Seems that few can, especially in our politically correct worldview today.

 

Back to Truhart1 point, when I was 17 I was horny AF. There was a new teacher at my high school, just out of college. Mr. Ligori. Handsome. Great body. If I had been stuck with him in an Italian villa..... I would have let him do things with me. My fantasies come true. CMBYN is just a story that explores these kind of desires. So, maybe we can get over it, whether the content of the story is acceptable. But I doubt we can.