Thoughts on Sex Addiction

[+ OliverSaks]

I could imagine someone feeling hostile towards AA when it was pushed on him as some panacea (would we have all of this addiction left in our country if the program, and getting people to it, was the answer?)

 

AA fails as a person-centered, harm reduction strategy. It helps some people, surely, but it is entirely dogmatic in its approach and hasn't been updated in 50+ years. No one would stand for a medical treatment that hasn't undergone an update in so long of a period for diabetes or heart failure - why do we let this stand for our most vulnerable, ill , addicted patients?

 

I see these patients every day - and will for the next 30+ years if I don't meet an untimely death. This is not above my pay grade.

[Rocky93]

I could imagine someone feeling hostile towards AA when it was pushed on him as some panacea (would we have all of this addiction left in our country if the program, and getting people to it, was the answer?)

 

AA fails as a person-centered, harm reduction strategy. It helps some people, surely, but it is entirely dogmatic in its approach and hasn't been updated in 50+ years. No one would stand for a medical treatment that hasn't undergone an update in so long of a period for diabetes or heart failure - why do we let this stand for our most vulnerable, ill , addicted patients?

 

I see these patients every day - and will for the next 30+ years if I don't meet an untimely death. This is not above my pay grade.

 

This post is not about AA, it is about Sex addiction, unfortunately, it has been sort of hijacked. AA was never meant to be a cure or a treatment for alcoholism or other addictions. It is not a stand alone. I also agree if one is forced to go, it doesn't really work. The AA model does help many people whether it be AA, NA, GA, OA, SA, SLAA, etc. their existence is proof that AA has been "updated" in a sense. Some AA groups are more dogmatic and some are more liberal. I just have a problem with people throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Many doctors are ill-informed about addictions receiving less than 9 hours training. Many see no problem prescribing xanax and other benzodiazepines to addicts as well as other habit forming drugs. It truly saddens me.

What I am curious here is when does one consider to have crossed the line from normal sexual activity to more addictive sexual "acting out?" For me, it is when I use it as an escape or it interferes in my ability to be productive or when it is obsessive or compulsive

[Rocky93]

I could imagine someone feeling hostile towards AA when it was pushed on him as some panacea (would we have all of this addiction left in our country if the program, and getting people to it, was the answer?)

 

AA fails as a person-centered, harm reduction strategy. It helps some people, surely, but it is entirely dogmatic in its approach and hasn't been updated in 50+ years. No one would stand for a medical treatment that hasn't undergone an update in so long of a period for diabetes or heart failure - why do we let this stand for our most vulnerable, ill , addicted patients?

 

I see these patients every day - and will for the next 30+ years if I don't meet an untimely death. This is not above my pay grade.

 

This post is not about AA, it is about Sex addiction, unfortunately, it has been sort of hijacked. AA was never meant to be a cure or a treatment for alcoholism or other addictions. It is not a stand alone. I also agree if one is forced to go, it doesn't really work. The AA model does help many people whether it be AA, NA, GA, OA, SA, SLAA, etc. their existence is proof that AA has been "updated" in a sense. Some AA groups are more dogmatic and some are more liberal. I just have a problem with people throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Many doctors are ill-informed about addictions receiving less than 9 hours training. Many see no problem prescribing xanax and other benzodiazepines to addicts as well as other habit forming drugs. It truly saddens me.

What I am curious here is when does one consider to have crossed the line from normal sexual activity to more addictive sexual "acting out?" For me, it is when I use it as an escape or it interferes in my ability to be productive or when it is obsessive or compulsive

[+ WilliamM]

This post is not about AA, it is about Sex addiction, unfortunately, it has been sort of hijacked

 

This is a good lesson for me and others. Once a few people decide to take the thread in a new direction, the OP has no control. I am very sorry the thread was hijacked. I hoped it would return to sex addiction, @Rocky93.

[+ MostlyLurking]

We should have started a new thread. And ended it.

[Bearofdistinction]

?

 

 

Yeah Rocky I have no clue ---- Blame it on that evil varmint from Tennessee Mr Jack Daniels!

[AdamSmith]

Another personal acquaintance who agees AA is wholly and deeply destructive is:

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/reynolds-tad-clodfelter-b3357418

 

Regard his irrefutable professional qualifications.

[AdamSmith]

This post is not about AA, it is about Sex addiction, unfortunately, it has been sort of hijacked.

They are very closely related. The posts here about alcohol abuse and addiction are wholly relevant and applicable.

[AdamSmith]

The conceptual distinction is between very directly brain-chemistry-based physical addictions, most dramatically to the opiates, opioids and nicotine, versus primarily learned-behavior-based abuses and attachments to alchohol, or the purely psychologically potentiating, not at all physiologically, marijuana.

[LADoug1]

We should have started a new thread. And ended it.

 

Perhaps but it wouldn't need to be ended. I find the discussion of AA very interesting.

[Rocky93]

Of course it would be erroness of me not to study and consider the physiological effects of chemicals and behaviors In the human body. As a matter of fact, relevant to this discussion, sexual behavior and cocaine stimulate the same exact area of the brain. I understand that completely and not disregarding that at all. The medical model of treating addiction has its proper place and is part of the overall treatment plan. Looking holistically at treatment and recovery, I believe all areas need to be address, bio, psycho, social, and spiritual. All modelities of treatment can elicit positive outcomes. I always welcome information and perspectives that add to the knowledge base. However, rejecting or negatively regarding a modelity of recovery which has saved so many lives, I believe, is irresponsible. Though it may not be for all and some groups are more fundamentally based and conservative than others, it still works for many. Understanding its literature, tradition and history helps one to put it in perspective of what it claims to be able to do and not able to do. Regardless of what I think, and yes, there are aspects of the program or the book at least that need updating, I refuse to knock it.

[+ WilliamM]

Of course it would be erroness of me not to study and consider the physiological effects of chemicals and behaviors In the human body. As a matter of fact, relevant to this discussion, sexual behavior and cocaine stimulate the same exact area of the brain. I understand that completely and not disregarding that at all. The medical model of treating addiction has its proper place and is part of the overall treatment plan. Looking holistically at treatment and recovery, I believe all areas need to be address, bio, psycho, social, and spiritual. All modelities of treatment can elicit positive outcomes. I always welcome information and perspectives that add to the knowledge base. However, rejecting or negatively regarding a modelity of recovery which has saved so many lives, I believe, is irresponsible. Though it may not be for all and some groups are more fundamentally based and conservative than others, it still works for many. Understanding its literature, tradition and history helps one to put it in perspective of what it claims to be able to do and not able to do. Regardless of what I think, and yes, there are aspects of the program or the book at least that need updating, I refuse to knock it.

 

I greatly admire your willingness to try to understand people who disagree with you.

 

Whether or not you celebrate Easter, your tone and manner fits today.

[AdamSmith]

Of course it would be erroness of me not to study and consider the physiological effects of chemicals and behaviors In the human body. As a matter of fact, relevant to this discussion, sexual behavior and cocaine stimulate the same exact area of the brain. I understand that completely and not disregarding that at all. The medical model of treating addiction has its proper place and is part of the overall treatment plan. Looking holistically at treatment and recovery, I believe all areas need to be address, bio, psycho, social, and spiritual. All modelities of treatment can elicit positive outcomes. I always welcome information and perspectives that add to the knowledge base. However, rejecting or negatively regarding a modelity of recovery which has saved so many lives, I believe, is irresponsible. Though it may not be for all and some groups are more fundamentally based and conservative than others, it still works for many. Understanding its literature, tradition and history helps one to put it in perspective of what it claims to be able to do and not able to do. Regardless of what I think, and yes, there are aspects of the program or the book at least that need updating, I refuse to knock it.

The one very bizarre thing you refuse to take into your conceptual frame is the irrefutable evidence presented in this research that AA is a self-perpetuating fraud that does not work, and harms people.

 

The irrefutable evidence for that conclusion is very clearly present in the above-cited reseach.

 

It becomes clear that whatever career you are in does not depend on factual evidence.

 

What, by the way, DO you do?

 

I do technology market research. My motto is what the emperor Herod told Claudius:

 

Trust no one.

[Rocky93]

The one very bizarre thing you refuse to take into your conceptual frame is the irrefutable evidence presented in this research that AA is a self-perpetuating fraud that does not work, and harms people.

 

The irrefutable evidence for that conclusion is very clearly present in the above-cited reseach.

 

It becomes clear that whatever career you are in does not depend on factual evidence.

 

What, by the way, DO you do?

 

I do technology market research. My motto is what the emperor Herod told Claudius:

 

Trust no one.

 

Faith, my friend, is not having empirical evidence, and still believing and trusting. That is the basis of most religions and spiritualities. Trust, which I am sure your clinical psychology friends, especially the Freudians informed you of is that without developing trust, we do not develop healthy relationships with ourselves or others (See Freud's Theory of Development as well as Eric Erikson's Theory of Psycho-Social Development).

 

To quote your often used phrase, my sympathy to you . . . for one, not trusting anyone and two, for not believing anything that is not irrefutable in a scientific journal. A life without trust and faith, would be for me, one very lonely and bitter life. I admit, with trust and faith also comes along pain and sorrow, yet I don't believe many escape that life without it and the people who seem the happiest are those who have experienced the greatest sorrows in life and are still able to find the joy of living.

 

You can also crush that irrefutable evidence by walking into an AA meeting and ask the people there if AA is a self-perpetuating fraud that does not work and harms them or if they believe it has helped them in getting their lives back.

 

And, by the way, what I do?? After many years of being a master's level clinician for treatment centers and the like, several years as a consultant, several years as a researcher/planner after Master's from University of Pennsylvania Wharton School, I have returned to my love of working directly with heroin addicts coming right off the streets from two of the cities with the largest number of heroin addicts and overdoses in the nation. I oversee programming in a large 6 county area and work with families, addicts, and parents whose children died from overdoses.

 

What became appearant to me, is that all these researchers in their lofty practices can take their research and wipe their asses with it because they wouldn't know what to do if one of these guys walked in their office like that. These addicts would laugh at them. My approach is to meet them where they are. I don't have my degrees hanging on wall, they are tucked away some where. I meet them and talk with them in the language of the street. Ask them why they find my approach effectve and the answer they inevitably give is, 1. "I trust him" and 2. "He has faith and has faith in me."

 

I take them to meetings. Some better than others. We laugh about the ones that suck. For the others that don't like those meetings, we have another group that I run more like a cognitive-behavioral model. I try everything and anything that will get these guys another day. We started a recovery basketball league and an association of recovery houses. I formed relationships with cops, clergy, judges, politicians, unions, parents, you name, they are part of it. Started a Foundation in 2006 and made a promise that whatever I have to do so that another parent does not have to bury a child, I will do.

[LADoug1]

I don't like the tone this post has developed. It's also way off topic.

 

Let's have a separate thread on AA with polite discourse.

[Rocky93]

I don't like the tone this post has developed. It's also way off topic.

 

Let's have a separate thread on AA with polite discourse.

 

Someone else start that thread. I don't want to be attacked from the gate. Everytime I moved off from AA back to Sex addiction, AdamSmith would not let it go and I played right into it because I just can't let ignorance prevail.

[+ WilliamM]

Someone else start that thread. I don't want to be attacked from the gate. Everytime I moved off from AA back to Sex addiction, AdamSmith would not let it go and I played right into it because I just can't let ignorance prevail.

 

No, you should have ignored his comments completely, especially "What, by the way, Do you do?" I do understand it was difficult to ignore.

[+ MostlyLurking]

Rocky93, I am delighted that you answered "What, by the way, do you do?" I think it was a very important substantive contribution to the discussion.

 

I'll start two threads . . . if somebody will remind me how to start threads.

[Rocky93]

Rocky93, I am delighted that you answered "What, by the way, do you do?" I think it was a very important substantive contribution to the discussion.

 

I'll start two threads . . . if somebody will remind me how to start threads.

 

Thanks, I hope it helped for others to understand where I am coming from.

 

As for starting the thread, Go to the Lounge and hit the button that reads, "Start a Conversation" or "Start a Thread" something like that!!! It is in blue and reads "Start" something or another because God knows we start something but don't have any idea of what it becomes once it gets rolling!!!

[LADoug1]

Someone else start that thread. I don't want to be attacked from the gate. Everytime I moved off from AA back to Sex addiction, AdamSmith would not let it go and I played right into it because I just can't let ignorance prevail.

 

It's hard to ignore or not engage. I understand your situation.

[+ MostlyLurking]

OK - I've started two threads, called "Addiction Treatment" and "Sex Addiction Only." Have fun.

[AdamSmith]

because I just can't let ignorance prevail.

Triple-sourced, case-based, methodologically university-conducted research you reject.

 

Against a lay idea dreamed up in 1935 in absence of any knowledge of brain science, behavioral science, substance abuse science:

 

Suppose the science of surgery had frozen in 1935.

 

That is what you are proposing.

[Rocky93]

Triple-sourced, case-based, methodologically university-conducted research you reject.

 

Against a lay idea dreamed up in 1935 in absence of any knowledge of brain science, behavioral science, substance abuse science:

 

Suppose the science of surgery had frozen in 1935.

 

That is what you are proposing.

 

Sometimes I am just convinced also, that some people should just drink and it would make them much less obnoxius

[LADoug1]

My father and stepmother are drunks. I avoid them like the plague when they are drinking if at all possible. I greatly resent having to put myself through this effort. My sister was a pot-head. I stopped having anything to do with her. For me I find family members who are addicts far more impactful and unnerving. Some Alanon meetings have helped.

[Rocky93]

My father and stepmother are drunks. I avoid them like the plague when they are drinking if at all possible. I greatly resent having to put myself through this effort. My sister was a pot-head. I stopped having anything to do with her. For me I find family members who are addicts far more impactful and unnerving.

 

The toll and the effects on the family are wide-reaching and generational! The impact and trauma sometimes is unrealized for many years after. I am convinced it is a family disease.