Why should I care?

[unsub2O17]

The thread that I started yesterday has proved immensely helpful to me. Thank you all so much. It has led to this follow up question: As long as these gorgeous men make their bodies and minds available to my ever-developing sexuality, why should I care what their motives are (the money or whatever)??

[jjkrkwood]

The thread that I started yesterday has proved immensely helpful to me. Thank you all so much. It has led to this follow up question: As long as these gorgeous men make their bodies and minds available to my ever-developing sexuality, why should I care what their motives are (the money or whatever)??

 

you shouldnt care. Your focus should be soley on enjoying yourself with your hire.

[jawjateck]

If you are a satisfied and happy customer, the escort is respected and properly compensated, and no one got hurt, then rock on and don't over-analyze it.

 

I spent last night with my army buddy who sees very few clients, he's in a tough financial situation, and I know he needs the money. He's a great guy, awesome fun in bed, and mutually enjoy time with each other. Both of our wants/needs are met, and it's all good.

[gallahadesquire]

If you are a satisfied and happy customer, the escort is respected and properly compensated, and no one got hurt, then rock on and don't over-analyze it.

 

I spent last night with my army buddy who sees very few clients, he's in a tough financial situation, and I know he needs the money. He's a great guy, awesome fun in bed, and mutually enjoy time with each other. Both of our wants/needs are met, and it's all good.

 

ARMY buddy? Be still, my heart, although I'm still looking for my Marine.

[corndog]

As long as these gorgeous men make their bodies and minds available to my ever-developing sexuality, why should I care what their motives are (the money or whatever)??

 

The motives of the provider often portend the quality of the experience. Read the reviews of Scott Sloan, consider his motives and the common results.

[Juan Vancouver]

One reason comes to mind.

 

Especially if you are developing a budding sexuality and if you are using escorts as a practice field to learn about your sexuality and learn better ways to relate to others and to yourself, one of the main things that you are learning, whether you are aware of it or not is to read the spoken and unspoken signals your partner is sending you and to act accordingly. This is what makes a man a truly good lover. This skill is what will make it possible for you at one point to stop seeing escorts because you are so good at interpersonal non paid relationships that you will have no problem engaging men for sex or for whatever you may want.

 

If you learn to read this signals and if your escort was hating what he was doing it would be very uncomfortable for you to stand it. The only way to not mind whether your escort is hating his work or not is if you have learnt to desensitize yourself from the communication your partner is sending, and if you are not good at this, you will not be a good lover, and you will have to keep hiring escorts because you will find it difficult to sustain relationships.

 

Lovers who are not listening and honouring their partner's signals are selfish lovers. Selfish lovers will find it difficult to create and sustain relationships.

 

Many people are perfectly okay with the prospect of paying for sex for the rest of their lives, and they have become used to dealing with people who will tolerate them as long as they provide what they need of them. If your purpose of hiring escorts is to start a long lasting dependency, then I would say that it really doesn't matter at all whether your escorts like it or not. If you are seeing your hiring escorts as a bouncing board, as a practice, as truing ground, then I believe it is of utmost importance that you learn to differentiate who is having a great time, who is lying about it, and who feels used, disgusted, uncomfortable and uneasy. Maybe if you tune up your perception you will realize that almost all partners respond in a similar way to a specific thing that you do, and based on that input you may decide to do that thing more or less often. But unless you pay attention to that, you will never really know how well you are doing as a lover.

 

The other reason I can think, of course, is because escorts, even if they have made their bed and they should lie in it, are still human beings. One of our most amazing abilities as human beings is that of being compassionate. I will go on a limb here, but I can bet you that if there was a guy in a corner by your house who always had a knife half sunk in his own flesh, and if he asked you to twist the knife every time you walked by, I am sure you would not. Sometimes people make choices that are bad for them. If we learn to pay attention to the other, soon enough we start not wanting to become accomplices in those choices as much as we can.

 

Perhaps knowing your escort's motives is not important for you; what is really important is to learn to perceive whether he likes his job or whether he hates it and feels degraded, used, or even tolerant about it.

 

This approach may sound a bit Pollyanna like to many; many would like to believe that hookers don't have feelings or that clients don't mind, but I think that no matter how resilient we want to become, sooner or later engaging in unhealthy relationships will take its toll on us.

 

This is just another opinion, of course. We all have to find that philosophy that works for us.

[unsub2O17]

One reason comes to mind.

 

Especially if you are developing a budding sexuality and if you are using escorts as a practice field to learn about your sexuality and learn better ways to relate to others and to yourself, one of the main things that you are learning, whether you are aware of it or not is to read the spoken and unspoken signals your partner is sending you and to act accordingly. This is what makes a man a truly good lover. This skill is what will make it possible for you at one point to stop seeing escorts because you are so good at interpersonal non paid relationships that you will have no problem engaging men for sex or for whatever you may want.

 

If you learn to read this signals and if your escort was hating what he was doing it would be very uncomfortable for you to stand it. The only way to not mind whether your escort is hating his work or not is if you have learnt to desensitize yourself from the communication your partner is sending, and if you are not good at this, you will not be a good lover, and you will have to keep hiring escorts because you will find it difficult to sustain relationships.

 

Lovers who are not listening and honouring their partner's signals are selfish lovers. Selfish lovers will find it difficult to create and sustain relationships.

 

Many people are perfectly okay with the prospect of paying for sex for the rest of their lives, and they have become used to dealing with people who will tolerate them as long as they provide what they need of them. If your purpose of hiring escorts is to start a long lasting dependency, then I would say that it really doesn't matter at all whether your escorts like it or not. If you are seeing your hiring escorts as a bouncing board, as a practice, as truing ground, then I believe it is of utmost importance that you learn to differentiate who is having a great time, who is lying about it, and who feels used, disgusted, uncomfortable and uneasy. Maybe if you tune up your perception you will realize that almost all partners respond in a similar way to a specific thing that you do, and based on that input you may decide to do that thing more or less often. But unless you pay attention to that, you will never really know how well you are doing as a lover.

 

The other reason I can think, of course, is because escorts, even if they have made their bed and they should lie in it, are still human beings. One of our most amazing abilities as human beings is that of being compassionate. I will go on a limb here, but I can bet you that if there was a guy in a corner by your house who always had a knife half sunk in his own flesh, and if he asked you to twist the knife every time you walked by, I am sure you would not. Sometimes people make choices that are bad for them. If we learn to pay attention to the other, soon enough we start not wanting to become accomplices in those choices as much as we can.

 

Perhaps knowing your escort's motives is not important for you; what is really important is to learn to perceive whether he likes his job or whether he hates it and feels degraded, used, or even tolerant about it.

 

This approach may sound a bit Pollyanna like to many; many would like to believe that hookers don't have feelings or that clients don't mind, but I think that no matter how resilient we want to become, sooner or later engaging in unhealthy relationships will take its toll on us.

 

This is just another opinion, of course. We all have to find that philosophy that works for us.

 

You're absolutely blowing me away! I simply hadn't thought about that. Thank you so much for the insight.

[jjkrkwood]

Juan, with ALL due respect to your above post and suggestions to unsub, I think its really irresponsible to even suggest that his possible REAL life encounters will be anything remotely resembling his experiences with an escort. And with due respect to you, the bottom line is that the Reality still remains that YOU are paid to make the most of your encounter with the client, make him feel good about himself, honor his requests to the degree you both agree on , and basically provide the service you are commisiioned to. YES of course the client can hone his sexual skills, but learning to READ an escort does NOT prepare you to read Real life sexual partners. Perhaps YOU as an individual might choose to guide your clients thru trials and tribulations of "coming out", or taking a new path in life, but from my experiences over many, many years, most escorts will just look to do the job, collect their fee, develop a client base and move on. YES we know of success stories where escorts may have "befriended" their clients, but those are the aberations and should never be considered as the expected NORM. I am not undervaluing YOUR experiences with YOUR clients, but again, I dont think your modus operandi is typical of most escorts that will be encountered in ones travlels.

 

But as you said, you were stating your opinon, which i respect, and as well I am stating mine.

[bigvalboy]

Dear Juan,

 

What you do not know is that a member here, strongly suggested that I invite you to PS for the weekend. I hesitated because I had gone through a less than satisfactory hiring experience as part of my decision making process. The other two I hired for an hour as possible candidates for the weekend had a need for being very discreet, so they were unable to go with me, SO when your name came up I was a bit 'gun shy' by then, and a bit burned out. Over the last couple of days I have been reading with great interest your posts..they are nothing short of amazing. I just printed this one out so that I could read it several times and really digest your comments....NOT hiring you for the PS weekend will go down as probably the WORST decision I have ever made in my life....

 

From deep inside this old soul, I wish you the VERY best this life has to offer you.

 

You are an amazing person, Peace to you my friend, and also to whom ever is being blessed with being part of your life.

 

Warmest Regards, BVB

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Jjkrkwood,

 

Nowhere in my post did I say that the experiences with escorts and the ones with non escorts will resemble at all. As a matter of fact, I think it is clearly implied that the opposite is true. Those are entirely two different experiences that should never resemble one another. I still believe that one is a safe place where one can learn how to be better at the other.

 

As for me being paid to provide a satisfactory service, don't worry; I am well aware of that fact. Actually I revel in the opportunity of giving a great experience. In my post I am not talking about my duties as an escort, I am talking about some client's learning opportunities during the session with an escort. Two entirely different topics.

 

Reading your posts I have gotten the general impression that all you want from your escorts is that they have a great body, a huge dick that gets hard, and a beautiful ass that you can eat. You have said repeatedly that you would be fine if they hated their work, and as long as they get hard you would be fine. This is all fine and dandy, and we all have the right to choose whatever works for us. It occurs to me that the experiences that you have had with escorts may have been determined by your specific needs. If you are looking for an escort who will get there, get hard, do his, job, collect his fee and walk out, it would not surprise me if you have experienced (throughout the years) precisely that. I agree that in your experience, learning to read your escorts would have not prepared you for anything. That doesn't necessarily mean that this is the only escort experience out there. That doesn't mean that this is the best way to deal with this and it is neither the worse; this is just your way, what works for you. This also clearly works for the escorts you have hired. Yay! Perfect match.

 

Now, let me clarify. I am not sure how you got the impression that I am interested in befriending my clients. Not only that is not true, as a matter of fact, personally I think it that would be very dangerous for my clients and it would open a can of worms when it came to them understanding the healthy boundaries that a professional "educational" relationship must have. I apply exactly the same rules that a therapist would apply to their clients, except that I am a little more "grabby" on my approach. I believe that if I became their friend I would only be making their dependance on me greater, hindering that way their ability to be self empowered, self sufficient human beings. I love going into a learning experience with my clients, I learn to love and respect and thoroughly enjoy most of them, but to me it has to be clear at all times that I am their escort, sometimes their facilitator, their sexual concierge, their trainer, and even if when we meet I am excited and happy and I feel intense affection, I have to remind them again and again that my role there is only a facilitator. When my work is done I pack my toys and go back to my life, hoping that the tools we discovered together will help them live a more fulfilling life.

 

I know there are many wonderful escorts who strive to become an important fixture in their client's lives; my personal practice is slightly different. I agree with you that this may not be the norm, not all nor most escorts will look at their work this way, but I know that many do, enough so that I am perfectly confident advising people that if they want to hire escorts for training purposes, they should look for the many wonderful escorts who provide exactly that.

 

The same way I would not advise them to hire the "get hard, cum, collect, scram" type, it would never occur to me to recommend you to hire the touchy feely type.

 

We use the word escort interchangeably to describe all people in the trade, while in reality it is like oranges and apples.

 

You would not want to apply the same rules to a waiter than the rules you would apply to a specialized chef who teaches a class of nutritiously balanced cooking.

 

Neither is better. Two entirely different things.

 

Big hug.

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Bigvalboy,

 

I really appreciate your post, my man. Please thank your friend on my behalf. I send right back at you your good wishes, and I trust that we will get a chance to meet one another soon.

 

I would have loved going to Palm Springs to meet you guys. A gentlemen who is more of a lurker wanted me to escort him there and introduce him to everyone but sadly I was in Australia. Thor and I had the clever idea of running away from the Winter and went to Australia for five weeks, so I even if I would have loved to accept your invitation possibly it would have not worked out this time. Only God knows what will happen in the future! =)

 

Big hug to you, my dirtiest wishes, and here's to hoping we will soon meet.

[jjkrkwood]

Hey Jjkrkwood,

 

Nowhere in my post did I say that the experiences with escorts and the ones with non escorts will resemble at all. As a matter of fact, I think it is clearly implied that the opposite is true. Those are entirely two different experiences that should never resemble one another. I still believe that one is a safe place where one can learn how to be better at the other.

 

As for me being paid to provide a satisfactory service, don't worry; I am well aware of that fact. Actually I revel in the opportunity of giving a great experience. In my post I am not talking about my duties as an escort, I am talking about some client's learning opportunities during the session with an escort. Two entirely different topics.

 

Reading your posts I have gotten the general impression that all you want from your escorts is that they have a great body, a huge dick that gets hard, and a beautiful ass that you can eat. You have said repeatedly that you would be fine if they hated their work, and as long as they get hard you would be fine. This is all fine and dandy, and we all have the right to choose whatever works for us. It occurs to me that the experiences that you have had with escorts may have been determined by your specific needs. If you are looking for an escort who will get there, get hard, do his, job, collect his fee and walk out, it would not surprise me if you have experienced (throughout the years) precisely that. I agree that in your experience, learning to read your escorts would have not prepared you for anything. That doesn't necessarily mean that this is the only escort experience out there. That doesn't mean that this is the best way to deal with this and it is neither the worse; this is just your way, what works for you. This also clearly works for the escorts you have hired. Yay! Perfect match.

 

Now, let me clarify. I am not sure how you got the impression that I am interested in befriending my clients. Not only that is not true, as a matter of fact, personally I think it that would be very dangerous for my clients and it would open a can of worms when it came to them understanding the healthy boundaries that a professional "educational" relationship must have. I apply exactly the same rules that a therapist would apply to their clients, except that I am a little more "grabby" on my approach. I believe that if I became their friend I would only be making their dependance on me greater, hindering that way their ability to be self empowered, self sufficient human beings. I love going into a learning experience with my clients, I learn to love and respect and thoroughly enjoy most of them, but to me it has to be clear at all times that I am their escort, sometimes their facilitator, their sexual concierge, their trainer, and even if when we meet I am excited and happy and I feel intense affection, I have to remind them again and again that my role there is only a facilitator. When my work is done I pack my toys and go back to my life, hoping that the tools we discovered together will help them live a more fulfilling life.

 

I know there are many wonderful escorts who strive to become an important fixture in their client's lives; my personal practice is slightly different. I agree with you that this may not be the norm, not all nor most escorts will look at their work this way, but I know that many do, enough so that I am perfectly confident advising people that if they want to hire escorts for training purposes, they should look for the many wonderful escorts who provide exactly that.

 

The same way I would not advise them to hire the "get hard, cum, collect, scram" type, it would never occur to me to recommend you to hire the touchy feely type.

 

We use the word escort interchangeably to describe all people in the trade, while in reality it is like oranges and apples.

 

You would not want to apply the same rules to a waiter than the rules you would apply to a specialized chef who teaches a class of nutritiously balanced cooking.

 

Neither is better. Two entirely different things.

 

Big hug.

 

Juan, now permit me to be just as clear. When I respond to your post comments, unless I specifically QUOTE you, i am being rhetorical in my statements. YOU doesnt mean YOU personally. It means the escort population, or the portions of it to which my statements might fit. I believe Both of us have commented on our personal experiences. I never would minimize or discount yours, nor should you discount mine. YES, my needs for the men I hire ARE focused. I dont need to be educated, schooled, trained etc. If I want a boyfriend expereince, I will get a boyfriend, not PAY to have one for an hour. YES, we all handle our business in different ways. While I do agree that hiring might be a good way to get a newbies feet wet interactting sexually with men, I think its nothing MORE than that, and quite an expensive training at that.. Find what suits you... While like you I do have strong opinions, I would never be as presumptuous to speak for someone else, and I am NOT saying here that YOU do. I just feel your presentation of things is much "grander" than it really should be, and you might not be giving the most "accurate" portrayal of the escorting climate.... Perhaps just a VERY small niche ?

[corndog]

jjkirkwood, I respectfully disagree with most of your posts in this thread. I appreciate your contribution to the conversation, but I feel like the frequency of your posts might lead the casual reader (now, or in the future) to accept your view as the prevailing opinion among clients. To that end, I DO NOT request that you post less, I am merely posting this to support Juan's point of view here. So, future archive readers, please accept my opinion that Juan's posts make a lot of sense to me.

[zeyfur]

Juan. Will you be my boyfriend ? X x x

[Diverdan]

Juan,

As always your posts always make me want more... and I have so enjoyed our few times together... so, let's hope you and Thor are available next year for the PS weekend... BVB and I will share the two of you if he agrees... I haven't met BVB boy as yet, but am sure with you and Thor we would have a great time together in so many different ways. Thanks for your always inciteful posts... and Hugs and more to you and Thor... thanks for being part of this Forum.

DD

[bigvalboy]

Juan,

As always your posts always make me want more... and I have so enjoyed our few times together... so, let's hope you and Thor are available next year for the PS weekend... BVB and I will share the two of you if he agrees... I haven't met BVB boy as yet, but am sure with you and Thor we would have a great time together in so many different ways. Thanks for your always insightful posts... and Hugs and more to you and Thor... thanks for being part of this Forum.

DD

 

Hey DD,

 

Did you just ask me out on a date for next year in PS???.... If so I am marking it down in my calendar as we speak. I am trying to imagine what an incredible experience that would be.....You and I, and Juan and Thor...we are going to need a VERY large bed....LOL. Don't think Helios has that, but a suite at the Riviera down the street would do very nicely, thank you very much!!!

 

And while, God willing, I will be in Fort Lauderdale this time next year, just know that there is no distance too great that I would be willing to travel to see everyone. DD, we really do need to meet, and the PS weekend is a smashing idea...let's put all of this on the back burner to simmer and see what happens...

 

Love you guys,

 

Peace and good wishes to all, BVB

[Juan Vancouver]

Juan. Will you be my boyfriend ? X x x

 

I can't be your boyfriend, but I would love to be your escort. =)

Believe me, that's so much more fun!

 

You really made me smile, though. Big hug!

 

 

And DiverDan, as always it is great to hear from you. I like that wanton image for Palm Springs. =) Sounds like fun.

 

Hugs to you all!

[jjkrkwood]

jjkirkwood, I respectfully disagree with most of your posts in this thread. I appreciate your contribution to the conversation, but I feel like the frequency of your posts might lead the casual reader (now, or in the future) to accept your view as the prevailing opinion among clients. To that end, I DO NOT request that you post less, I am merely posting this to support Juan's point of view here. So, future archive readers, please accept my opinion that Juan's posts make a lot of sense to me.

 

Corndog, I have never once discounted Juans opinions or suggestions, I simply maintain that I DONT agree, and that should be clear and acceptable to all that I have a different opinion.

I am not expecting or asking anyone else to agree, I am not trying to convert anyone, simply stating how I feel. If 1 million people posted here, you would probably get as many different viewpoints. Sometimes a differing opinion opens your mind to a new thought, and if not, that fine too. I do support escorts and hire them when the need and mood compels me, but I have always seen my interactions with them as a business transaction, and THEIR reasons for being in the business are NO concern of mine as long as I am a "happy camper"...How other people use their escort experiences is also of no concern to me. Each person needs to do and feel what they deem necessary and appropriate for THEM.

 

I am also baffled by yours and others concern over the "frequency" of my posts ? There are certainly others here who post as often, if not MORE than I do, but perhaps because they

have a more popular opinion than I, it endears them to the Forum members in a way that I dont? Whatever the case, I dont agree that the frequency should be any indicator that I am the voice of the masses. I only speak for myself, and if someone interprets it differently, well then thats their cross to bare .

[bigvalboy]

Hey Bigvalboy,

 

I really appreciate your post, my man. Please thank your friend on my behalf. I send right back at you your good wishes, and I trust that we will get a chance to meet one another soon.

 

I would have loved going to Palm Springs to meet you guys. A gentlemen who is more of a lurker wanted me to escort him there and introduce him to everyone but sadly I was in Australia. Thor and I had the clever idea of running away from the Winter and went to Australia for five weeks, so I even if I would have loved to accept your invitation possibly it would have not worked out this time. Only God knows what will happen in the future! =)

 

Big hug to you, my dirtiest wishes, and here's to hoping we will soon meet.

 

Vancouver you say!!! uuummm, that ain't so far!...;-)