Tale of Two World-Class Orchestras

[adriano46]

Over the last 24 hours of the New Year, I had the opportunity to watch (and listen to) two live "New Year's Concerts".

 

The first was the televised concert of the New York Philharmonic last evening, with a progam of Bernstein and G. Gershwin music, everything piece something I have enjoyed for years, and played masterfully by an orchestra that I have always admired (ok, I am from NY and so it is the home town favorite).

 

The second concert was the New Year's Concert of the Vienna Philharmonic which was a strong mix of Strauss family music, which is their tradition for this annual event.

 

I have had the privilege in my life to hear both orchestras in live productions, and I especiall enjoyed the Vienna production which also had excerpts from the Staatsopera where I saw a magnificent production of Das Rosenkavilier.

 

But aside from the wonderful music from both orchestras, something struck me, and I wonder if any others here who may have watched both productions noticed it too?

 

The Vienna Philharmonic is 100% all-male orchestra in the "old" Viennese tradition, I suppose, and these men were ALL Europeans. On the other side of the spectrum, I was surprised at how truly multinational and gender diverse the NY Philharmonic is. I never saw so many women musicians in an orchestra of this level, nor one so ethnically diverse (especially notable were the many Asian musicians in the NY ensamble).

 

When I have been on the west side subway lines that stop at Lincoln Centre, and as I see men and women get off the subway in evening attire and carrying enormous instrument cases, I feel (despite the meagre wages they receive) "Wow, what a nice job to go to a concert hall for work, and be able to play beautiful music (or for opera singers, to sing) for a living!"

 

Of course, I have also seen in the dingy subway tunnels in Moscow, student musicians from the Moscow Music Conservatory playing masterfully as solosts or as small groups in rush hour just to make a few rubles to eat (and I often threw down from 100 to 500 ruble notes for them, they were so good). --- And once, listened to an amazing violinist in a plaza in Budapest, and after an hour, and at least 4 trips to his money basket, I struck up a conversation, bought him a dinner, and he spent the night with me... but that is off topic...

 

The real purpose of the thread was to comment on the true internationalization of classical music as seen in the NY Philharmonic and note too that there were more youthful musicians in NY than in Vienna (h, not overlooking the strikingly handsome young blond in the 2nd violins in Vienna!!!) HAPPY NEW YEAR

[uwsman2]

Yes, the evolution of the NY Philharmonic into a truly diverse international ensemble has been a pretty spectacular thing. As a kid I watched the Young Peoples Concert broadcasts with Leonard Bernstein during the 1960s, and remember what a big fuss was made when a woman actually joined the orchestra - Oren O'Brien in the double-bass section. (She's still there, by the way.) If you get the DVD set of the Young Peoples Concerts, scope out the orchestra in the early concerts from the Carnegie Hall days before Lincoln Center opened, the late 1950s. All male, all Caucasian. Today, the majority of the violins, violas and cellos are women, and several of the woodwinds, although still almost none of the brass and none of the percussion. And, it looks like a majority of the violinists are Asian. And, remember, that one of the Asian violinists is the mother of the conductor, Alan Gilbert. I last attended a NY Philharmonic concert last week, and they were definitely playing at the top of their game. The Ravel Mother Goose Ballet was so richly beautiful it could make you cry.

[jackhammer91406]

I happened to see the NY Philharmonic concert and enjoyed it. I was also struck by the diversity of the orchestra.

As for the program, overall I enjoyed the selections. But I felt the pianist playing Rhapsody In Blue was not as clean as I would have liked.

 

And as the orchestra played the dance music selection from West Side Story, I kept waiting for the AMERICA portion which wasn't included. But it did bring back memories of the young people's concerts of my youth.

[adriano46]

Jackhammer -- amazing. I too felt that the French pianist was not rendering sections of the Rhapsody as cleanly as I would have liked (and I have listened to this played by innumerable artists for over 40 years, and in my youth even played it -- amateurishly unfortunately - so I know the score quite well). I heard a few "slips" of the fingers and if my ees did not deceive me, I saw one of the violinists behind him actually whince at one point. But one thing is always consistent - the New York Philharmonic can play Bernstein better than any other orchestra I know.

[+ WilliamM]

 

But aside from the wonderful music from both orchestras, something struck me, and I wonder if any others here who may have watched both productions noticed it too?

 

The Vienna Philharmonic is 100% all-male orchestra in the "old" Viennese tradition, I suppose, and these men were ALL Europeans. On the other side of the spectrum, I was surprised at how truly multinational and gender diverse the NY Philharmonic is. I never saw so many women musicians in an orchestra of this level, nor one so ethnically diverse (especially notable were the many Asian musicians in the NY ensamble)

 

I have had the great pleasure of hearing both orchestras perform in thie respective home cities. I would like to see women as part of the Vienna Philharmonic. I have not spent a lot of time in Vienna, but loved the very lively night life, with very diverse bars and clubs. For anyone expecting a frozen-in-time Austro-Hungarian empire city, think again.

 

New York is a much larger city with more ethnic flavor because of the wide-ranging population. I am not exactly saying that all European like alike, but isn't it possible that the Vienna Philmarmonic includes some musicians from the former Soviet bloc countries.?

 

My purpose is not to argue, just to say that Vienna is a beautiful city with world clas art museums and beautiful people and superb food. I hope it one day takes a rightful place again along side London, Paris, Rome, Petersburg and Berlin.

[adriano46]

William, I agree and also -- in looking over the musicians of the Vienna Philharmonic, would think not all the men are Austrains, but also from other European nations, although in keeping with Austria's place in Middle Europe, I would imagine many are from further east than from the west. That said, the Vienna Philharmonic has a very unique, rich sound to its orchestrations, and does masterful work with some of the war horse repetoire of such orchestras (remember in the years of Van Karajan sp??) I also know that as a European capital it is one of the more enjoyable places to spend a few days, laid back, in the cafe's and bars and clubs hat are really enjoyable, and they do have some top class escorts too...

 

But my inquery was more on the somewhat one-sided demographic make-up of the orchestra -- heck, look now how even the Vienna Boys' Choir has been internationalized.