HIV + Question

[doitb4ugo]

If a guy is HIV+ and is seeing another HIV+ guy, is there any reason why they should practice safer sex....

 

Also, in the same vein, if the two guys are HIV-, do they need to use a condom?

[josephga]

I personally think condoms should always be used for anal sex regardless of hiv status. Iv know 2 people 1 only 18 years old thats now hiv + because he thought he was in a monogamous relationship and he stopped using condoms a year into that relationship. Even if hiv was taken out of the mix there's still other stds a person could catch.

[NYTomcat]

If a guy is HIV+ and is seeing another HIV+ guy, is there any reason why they should practice safer sex....

 

Also, in the same vein, if the two guys are HIV-, do they need to use a condom?

 

Lets start with the politically correct answer that Joseph is right you should always assume a condom is the best way to reduce risks and should be used for safety in all anal sex.... ok now if you are determined to ignore that advice:

 

yes there are risks between two Hiv+ partners. that other infections and different strains of the virus can be passed and can complicate your already impaired immune system

 

as to the question of two HIV- partners... well are you sure.... how well do you know the other partner. there are other risks other than HIV herpes comes to mind as do parasites, and others though many are only an antibiotic regiment away from a cure. still the risks are there. don't take them lightly but do the risk analysis . what is that experience and closeness worth to you... are you bottoming... somewhat greater risk of HIV infection or complications are you topping etc.... i would think for me even worse than contracting HIV would be giving it to someone you cared about enough you wanted that intimate experience with.

 

Now I am no expert... this is just my understanding from the research Ive done making some of these very same risk analysis. If Im wrong and I probably am in some respects beyond the politically correct answers. I am sure there are others here who can educate me much further and I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. Politically correct or not.... someday we will take these risks.

[justaguy]

The answer to both questions is yes, with no equivocation. The second question is simple--because there are other STDs. Tom gave the answer to the first question. There are several known strains of the virus (and it continues to mutate into others). The body reacts by producing antibodies for each strain. Being infected by multiple strains forces the body to work harder in order to combat the infections, thereby putting a greater strain on the immune system and increasing the risk of weakening it more quickly. USE A CONDOM! Play, but always play responsibly.

[jgoo]

In the case of two people who are HIV-, does anyone feel the answer changes if the two are in a long term committed monogamous relationship (assuming sufficiently long enough already that testing for STDs including HIV is adequate to show they are both clean)?

[josephga]

In the case of two people who are HIV-, does anyone feel the answer changes if the two are in a long term committed monogamous relationship (assuming sufficiently long enough already that testing for STDs including HIV is adequate to show they are both clean)?

 

I personally would still use them. Iv never know sex without one. I'm so use to it I don't find putting a condom on that big of deal.

[NYTomcat]

Yes and no. Im a bit jaded. How much do u trust him? Part of that risk analysis

[josephga]

Yes and no. Im a bit jaded. How much do u trust him? Part of that risk analysis

 

See thats my issue, Iv been hurt in the past cheated on twice. I'm to scared too ever take that risk. I think this idea that sex is better without a condom is more of a pschological thing with people.

[doitb4ugo]

See thats my issue, Iv been hurt in the past cheated on twice. I'm to scared too ever take that risk. I think this idea that sex is better without a condom is more of a pschological thing with people.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head (pardon the visuals) here, Joseph. I have never had sex without a condom in my short limited history but my deep down in my mind, I always think that the emotional bond would be so much stronger without the rubber. I beleive that physically it makes little difference to me. As a bottom, I cannot really tell. Unfortunately, A mind is a very strong driver of the emotional being...Thus the issue. How would I react if I were with someone who did not insist on wearing one. I don;t know, it has never happened (yet) in my experience. Hiring is one way I protect myself.

[Diverdan]

ALWAYS USE A CONDOM, NO MATTER WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP MIGHT BE, NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUST FACTOR MIGHT BE, YOU ARE DOING YOURSELF AND YOUR PARTNER, EVEN A LONG TERM COMMITTED ONE A FAVOR TO USE A CONDOM....otherwise, it is like playing russian roulette!!!!

[josephga]

ALWAYS USE A CONDOM, NO MATTER WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP MIGHT BE, NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUST FACTOR MIGHT BE, YOU ARE DOING YOURSELF AND YOUR PARTNER, EVEN A LONG TERM COMMITTED ONE A FAVOR TO USE A CONDOM....otherwise, it is like playing russian roulette!!!!

 

I agree heck you can get a dozen condoms for about 7 bucks at walmart.

[jgoo]

ALWAYS USE A CONDOM, NO MATTER WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP MIGHT BE, NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUST FACTOR MIGHT BE, YOU ARE DOING YOURSELF AND YOUR PARTNER, EVEN A LONG TERM COMMITTED ONE A FAVOR TO USE A CONDOM....otherwise, it is like playing russian roulette!!!!

 

Am I correct that you believe this applies equally to heterosexuals in a committed long term relationship when having recreational sex with their partners?

 

I understand and mostly agree with what you are saying but it seems to me that for those who feel there is an added emotional connection (or whatever perceived benefit they believe they get) having sex without condoms, it is reasonable and rational for those in a long term monogamous relationship to decide to do that as they have appropriately evaluated their relationship, the risks associated with condomless sex and the benefits they feel it provides to their relationship. It seems to be a very specific set of circumstances that this applies to but I know that those relationships where there is a deep, long lasting commitment and love between two men does exist, much in the way that it does in many heterosexual relationships.

[Diverdan]

jgoo,

In this day and age, I agree that this applies equally to heterosexuals as well. I know of many "long term, happy, healthy relationships" where the man or woman had an "accidental" episode with someone else with disasterous consequences. I am old enough to remember the fun of condomless sex, but even without HIV, there was always the possibility of STDs for men and women, but especially for gay men. I am one of the "lucky ones" who at the very beginning of the HIV scare changed my habits to always include a condom. Many of my friends did not, and they are no longer with us. It was especially hard on families who thought their husbands/fathers were hetro, but were in fact gay or bi. Unfortunately today, many of our young people, both guys and gals, think they are immortal and invincible, hence the resurgence of HIV infections, as well as STDs.

[justaguy]

jgoo, as much as I'd like to agree with your idea that the rules are changed in a committed, long term monogamous relationship, I have to side with Diverdan. Unfortunately, the statistics don't lie and the chances that the relationship is truly 100% monogamous is slim. Relationships aren't just about committment but also about compromise. IMO, using a condom should be one of those compromises.

[NYTomcat]

Im afraid guys im not that jaded. At some point I do see being with someone I trust enough ... not monogamy ... but that I trust he and I would not be unprotected with anyone but one another .. I know the risks. But I will take them with the right person whom I trust. Part of the great pleasure of life is finding someone you can Trust with your own.

 

I take my life and risk it everytime I drive a car. But clearly the benefits outweigh the risks. To me the trust with another to be completely intimate without barriers is Something special that is meant not casually but as a sign of that trust. And one I hope to share with someone someday. I have to trust my judgement that while not monogamous they are safe with anyone else withwhom they play. To me that is the ultimate in giving your trust to someone. To put your life and health in their hands. I truly believe I will. But not as a heated decision. And not lightly.

[wayout]

If for whatever reason a relationship uses unprotected sex as a way of showing trust or a way to build a deeper bond, then my first reaction is that is a dysfunctional relationship and something is wrong. Upon greater reflection, however, I think it is reasonable if we look at it the opposite way. Rather than unprotected sex being a way of showing trust or building a deeper bond, if a strong trust and bond already exists then that can make unprotected sex ok between two consenting adults.

[KMEM]

Sex is a limited part of any "real" relationship, so why take chances? I don't even want to pass on a cold. Mutual trust and admiration should include mutual respect, shouldn't it?

 

So far, gay men don't need condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancies but far too many heteros should have at least considered using them for that reason if not other reasons.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[justaguy]

Im afraid guys im not that jaded. At some point I do see being with someone I trust enough ... not monogamy ... but that I trust he and I would not be unprotected with anyone but one another .. I know the risks. But I will take them with the right person whom I trust. Part of the great pleasure of life is finding someone you can Trust with your own.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. On the one hand you're saying there is trust in the relationship, but at the same time you're saying the relationship is not monogamous. If the relationship isn't monogamous, what are you trusting in? That this person is and will remain disease free? Safer sex is not safe sex; multiple partners equates to multiples of risk. I think, and I could be wrong, that your desire not to use a condom isn't about risk analysis as an intellectual activity but about the value you place on gestures which signal emotional bonding. I can't agree with you, but that would be because of my value system. You need to do what works for you. My only advice would be do it with eyes wide open.

[wayout]

Sex is a limited part of any "real" relationship, so why take chances? I don't even want to pass on a cold. Mutual trust and admiration should include mutual respect, shouldn't it?

 

To not take chances would mean no anal sex (condoms can break or come off), using condoms for oral sex, dental dams for rimming, etc. I guess there are some that follow all that (or abstain totally from sex) but I doubt most do. My point is that everyone has a threshold for taking risk for what they consider relatively safe sex and that risk evaluation can (and probably should) include some consideration of the nature of the relationship itself, history, trust levels, etc. Seems that a rationale decision could be reached where a condom is not used and that could be, as others have stated, where there is a long term, monogamous relationship where trust is well established. Perhaps others would not find that enough to mitigate the risk sufficiently however others may add that to the equation and decide it reaches a threshold they are comfortable with.

[NYTomcat]

While I am far from a risk taker. I will always choose to trust the person I identify as a life partner. Otherwise why am I calling them that. I do not expect nor desire a solely monogamous relationship. My choice

 

So I do feel that once I've found the person I Wish to share my life with who reciprocates that feeling I will forego condom use. With him and trust he does not do the same with anyone else. Its not foolproof ... but nothing is besides abstinence which is another choice. . Thats just my risk tolerances. While I choose not to give someone I love a cold. I will nor avoid kissing them altogether for fear though I have no symptoms it could happen. I have to trust that that person has been cautious and cares enough not to risk my life and would forego condomless sex if he believed any risky activity on his part had taken place.

 

Remember I started this married and chose once I was with men. That I would no longer have sex with my wife.

 

A choice for her protection. The same holds true for a male lifepartner. If I have engaged in risky behavior ... stupid me... and I will take every precaution to assure my risks dont get spread.

 

But as I said early on. Its a matter of analysis of each persons risk tolerances. And trusting your partner and his tolerances as well