$$ Dick ID

[Guest ncm2169]

The bars are closed and I'm driving to the dead end road where I can sometimes hook up with a drunk str8 boy who will let me suck him off, if I pay him. I turn my lights off and slowly cruise down the street, peering out the window to see who's there. I can see one, two, three bois hanging there, all available. I kinda wave to this one boi who looks just my type (under 21, white, masculine) and he walks toward my car. (I'm instantly HARD). I turn away to open the passenger door to let him in. I turn back only to watch his hunky body slide into my passenger seat. (By now, I'm leaking major pre-cum). I, being a gentleman, offer my hand for a shake, and he opens his mouth to say, "Hi," and to paraphrase "F cubed", purses fall out faster than syllables.

 

Dudes, in truth I'm a real newbie here, and NO WAY should I be giving advice. That said, if I'm cruising like above, and a hooker doesn't meet my "expectations", I'm outta there. Why not??

 

NOW, move that scene to a build up to an escort encounter. Let's just say, for example, my choice is long distance, so we don't meet until the appinted hour. We exchange emails, he sends "current" pics, and gives "accurate" stats. All the signs point to a HOTT encounter.

 

I agree to hire him on that basis. When he shows up at the designated time, a near-sighted cyclops could tell he's not 23...more like 34; he's very muscular but, again, there are those purses (they're EVERYWHERE...is there like a sale this time of year??). }> Maybe we even get to exploring anatomy and I then discover that his 8" is overstated by half.

 

The point being, gentlemen, I'm sure no one here would disagree with my waving off the street hustler who wasn't my type. BUT, others here have said that when an escort shows up, even if the "chemistry isn't right", the client owes him some $$.

 

Newbie that I am, I happily defer ethical judgments until I hear all advice on the matter. Advice, anyone??

[Guest Kalifornia]

You seem to be triping some. The subject line, the reference to "F Cubed" no clue what you're talking about.

 

Then the one senetence near the end kind of expalins it. Yo if I pick up a guy on Santa Monica Blvd, who looks like deej please put me out of my misery.

 

Now if I pick up a hot guy on SMB and after he jumps in the car and we go for the quick ride around the block to work out business and the business doesn't work out, then I am probably going to give him 2 or 3 bucks. Hey I took him off th market for 5 - 10 minutes. It is like renting with a self imposed restocking fee for returning him too soon.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[Flower]

>The point being, gentlemen, I'm sure no one here would

>disagree with my waving off the street hustler who wasn't my

>type. BUT, others here have said that when an escort shows

>up, even if the "chemistry isn't right", the client owes him

>some $$.

>

>Newbie that I am, I happily defer ethical judgments until I

>hear all advice on the matter. Advice, anyone??

 

That's probably happened to us all, but what you do, IMHO, depends on whose fault the misunderstanding was. If there was a significant misrepresentation on the escort part, then I wouldn't pay a cent, and make no apologies for it. I go to a lot of trouble to spell things out ahead of time and I don't feel a bit sorry for someone who I say CYA to if he has lied to me. On the other hand, it's hard to specify everything and sometimes we are surprised. I had a situation where I bought a plane ticket for an escort that had great reviews here and had great PICS--he looked hot and I foolishly planned an overnight without testing the waters first. Well he was a very nice person, but just too fem for me -- I mean I'd have no problem having coffee or dinner with him, flames and all, but sexually, fems don't do it for me no matter how well reviewed or cute they are. I was with him for about an hour and we messed around a little, but it just got no better, so I bit the bullet and paid him for the overnight and dinner and made an excuse about an emergency (fortunately got a cell call from a friend as I was trying to figure out how to end this without hurting his feelings).

 

It was absolutely not his fault, so why should he be out? As to him, I was in the minority I guess, cause several months later he was nominated for escort of the year LOL -- go figure. :+

 

So I say, if the misunderstanding is your fault, pay him--if he lied to you, don't--that simple

 

Flower :*

[Bilbo]

Dear ncm - Do you see the difference between what you said and what Flower said? One was judgemental in a way that tried to assume that he was allowed to make decisions for all of us. That would be you. And the other was a person who knows his own tastes and knows that they are his own tastes and that not everyone else agrees with him. That would be Flower. Note how he says that his escort was "too femme for me" - and I would ask you to especially note the words "for me." Another telling phrase comes when he says "absolutely not his fault." Which ties into my suggestion for your first step. Please become more comfortable in and sure of your own masculinity so that you can accept the femininity of others more gracefully. Secondly, I wouldn't let anyone into my car until I had already talked to him through the window, were I you. Third, a simple, gentle "no, but thanks anyway" is always kinder than a lie, even though it might not look that way to you just before you say it. - Bilbo

[BuckyXTC]

Bilbo & Flower:

 

Thanks to both of you for showing maturity and sensitivity around the issue of masculinity/femininity of escorts. You've both shown that it is possible to state one's preferences without the need to disparage the escort when they turn out to be not your "type". Why is it so difficult for some to just state what they prefer, rather than have to use the well-worn stereotypes and cliches that are meant to denigrate the person to whom they are used in reference?

 

While I would say my own preference is escorts who are on the masculine side of the spectrum, I've also had some wonderful experiences with guys on the other side as well.

 

I'm inclined to think the original poster is more interested in starting up another "let's have a go at the femmes" thread than a serious discussion of an issue.

[alanalt]

It's never happened to me and unlikely that it ever will because I'm not likely to fly in an escort sight unseen. I did do it once but it was Matt from Vancouver and if you can't take a chance with the 'Escort of the Millenium'...}>

(and Matt's probably the only guy that I would ever have done that for).

 

Now there have been more than a few times when I've been on the road and hired a 'local' guy and I've never had a problem. Now I've never hired a guy who hasn't had several reviews (which takes care of the gross misrepresentation issues that Flower was talking about) and I try to do as much 'research' on the guy as possible.

 

However, if this is a real issue for you, I'd ask the escort before the appointment if you can quickly meet them to make sure the 'chemistry' is right. I've noticed several escorts offer that and as long as you ask beforehand, I think most 'good' escorts would agree. And, personally, I'd certainly offer to reimburse them for cab/transportation costs if the chemistry isn't right.

 

As I said, I've never done that and I've never felt the need. I suppose if I'd been 'burned' a few times, I might feel differently...

 

BTW, I totally agree with Bilbo's post. There are lots of 'better' (ie. non-offensive ways) you can use to describe guys who don't attract you sexually.

 

Alan

[N.N.]

>Bilbo & Flower:

>

>Thanks to both of you for showing maturity and sensitivity

>around the issue of masculinity/femininity of escorts.

>You've both shown that it is possible to state one's

>preferences without the need to disparage the escort when

>they turn out to be not your "type".

 

Flower has (gracefully) told us here what his preferences are,

but if I understand him right he didn't tell the escort, but

instead "made an excuse about an emergency". I wasn't there,

I don't know exactly what Flower did or didn't say. But normally

if I were in a situation like that, I would assure the escort

that they had done nothing wrong, and somehow find a courteous

way to explain that I wasn't interested (and pay the fee anyway).

 

I think most people who run a business understand that honest

feedback--positive or negative--can be of value to them.

I'd rather let the escort know what really happened (politely,

respectfully) than tell a white lie.

 

No matter how hot someone is, they aren't everybody's type.

[Guest ncm2169]

Wow! Did that get some juices flowing (not to mention sanctimony).:-) OK, I'll take 'em in order. First my apologies for mixing a late night attempt to be cute with words and inside lines from previous posts here. To clarify, $$ Dick was a shorthand reference to a guy who gets paid for sex. ID was a reference to "checking him out." "F cubed" was what someone, I think either Rod Hagen or Franco called Fin Fang Foom (3 "f's = f cubed, get it?)...I thought it was way clever. ;-) "Purses" was a reference to Fin Fang Foom's description of a muscle god guy who, when he opened his mouth to speak, "Not only a purse fell out, but the whole handbag department at Bergdorf Goodman."...A line which still makes me ROFL a week after I first read it.:+

 

As to my being judgmental and arrogating to myself the right to make decisions for others...WHOA! If I came on strong, that was not my intent and I apologize if it seemed that way. :-) Beyond that, some people seriously need to shed their persecution complexes. As to my need to get comfortable with my sexuality, who's being judgmental here? While I'm always open to good advice, I'm quite comfortable with my sexuality thank you very much. :7

 

And now, the BIG ISSUE (he makes jokes about purses, he must be (a) self-hating, (b) a gay basher, © wanting to mix it up here to wallow in his self-hatred and encourage other gay bashers, (d) all of the above). x( NOT.

 

I'll forego here a litany of my life's work in many arenas to help open doors, remove barriers, and build bridges for people who have experienced discrimination, whether it be because of gender, color, or sexual orientation, and to encourage dialogue and attitudes which not only tolerate diversity but truly appreciate it. But for my need to preserve my anonymity I might just provide you that litany, so you could see just how off the mark your assumptions were. (Yes, I'm in the closet, and if you have issues with that please keep them to yourself).

 

But just because I take my convictions about cultural diversity VERY seriously, it doesn't rob me of a sense of humor.}> I really don't give a flying fuck if it's politically incorrect humor and I make no apologies for it...my actions in life speak for themselves. For Chrissakes, ever heard of IRONY? Life's full of it. Don't you find it just even the teensiest little bit ironic when a fucking "muscle god" lisps? The joke is the IRONY, not the stereotype. I imagine some people can't see the distinction, but it's there. And if you can't appreciate the genius of magnifying a purse into "the entire handbag department at Bergdorf Goodman" in turning a phrase, without whining about gay oppression or whatever, then I truly feel sorry for you. I can't imagine not being able to view life's absurdities through the lens of humor...outrageous humor, YES, politically incorrect humor, YES, but still humor. :7

 

OK, I've rambled (pontificated?) far too long already, and I'll wrap it up with a salute to alanalt who made the most sense, at least to me. In fact, I have had a quick visit with an escort over coffee (which I of course paid for) to check out the chemistry, and I truly think it would be mutually beneficial to both parties if it happened every time, but of course long distance arrangements can make that difficult.

 

Soooo, thanks for all the comments, even if I didn't agree with all of them. Diversity of opinion, as well as cultural diversity, is worth appreciating. :*

[BuckyXTC]

Yes, it was FFF who first got on the "purses falling out" thing. If you thought it was funny, then bully for you. I just don't see the need to keep quoting it. Do you tell all your friends the same joke over and over? If so, I'll bet they think you're really the life of the party.

 

And spare us the litany of all the ways you've promoted cultural diversity......that's like saying "some of my best friends are black".

 

SInce you find the stereotypes about effeminate gays so amusing, I'm curious. Do you also find jokes about children in wheelchairs amusing, or babies with birth defects? Or how about people with brain tumors or HIV or god knows what else?

And let's not forget people with speech impediments, who lisp or stutter or have difficulty communicating. We all know that people lisp or stutter exclusively to amuse people like you.

 

I'm delighted my comments pissed you off, but I would be even happier if they had made you stop and think. The latter is obviously wishful thinking on my part.

 

Have a wonderful day.:-)

[alanalt]

>I'll wrap it up with a salute to alanalt who made the most

>sense, at least to me.

 

Thanks for the compliment (I think! ;-) )

 

Seriously though, I do appreciate a lot of what you've said. I've worked in the communications/PR field for a number of years and its proved what I was told by my first boss in my first week 'Communication is 65-70% done through body language, 25% through voice tone and inflection and only 5-10% through the words themselves'. So having eliminated 90-95% of your communication tools, you then bravely tackle humour, that most difficult of concepts! :7

 

Is it any wonder that your humour then flew right over a lot of people's heads? (that's a rhetorical question, BTW ;-) )

 

I love e-mail for its convenience but it does seem to create the most misunderstandings of any medium of communication (with the possible exception of posting on message boards. :-) )

 

Whoa, now I think I've caught a case of potificating too, so I'd better get back to packing my house.

 

Pontificatingly yours,

 

Alan

[phage]

>Yes, it was FFF who first got on the "purses falling out"

>thing. If you thought it was funny, then bully for you. I

>just don't see the need to keep quoting it.

 

I also thought it was one of the most amusing comments in months. I used to like, “He sets off smoke detectors wherever he goes.” But I plan on adopting the “purses falling out” expression effective immediately. Just wait, this time next year you’ll be hearing it in gay venues from coast-to-coast!

 

BTW, I have my “girlfriend” moments and am not always 100% masculine, but I can still laugh about it. I would have no problem describing one of those moments as “letting the purse fall out of my mouth.”

 

>SInce you find the stereotypes about effeminate gays so

>amusing, I'm curious. Do you also find jokes about children

>in wheelchairs amusing, or babies with birth defects? Or

>how about people with brain tumors or HIV or god knows what

>else?

>And let's not forget people with speech impediments, who

>lisp or stutter or have difficulty communicating. We all

>know that people lisp or stutter exclusively to amuse people

>like you.

 

Bucky,

 

I often agree with you but there is a point where a kind heart becomes a bleeding heart. Don’t you see how over-the-top crazy it is for you to compare effeminacy to diseases and physical disabilities? To put a simple behavior on par with those things is the kind of political-correctness-run-amok that nullifies any legitimate point you are trying to make. Children in wheelchairs? Babies with birth defects? Come on…

[Flower]

>if I were in a situation like that, I would assure the

>escort

>that they had done nothing wrong, and somehow find a

>courteous

>way to explain that I wasn't interested (and pay the fee

>anyway).

>

>I think most people who run a business understand that

>honest

>feedback--positive or negative--can be of value to them.

>I'd rather let the escort know what really happened

>(politely,

>respectfully) than tell a white lie.

>

>No matter how hot someone is, they aren't everybody's type.

 

In theory, couldn't agree more N.N., but in practice I have to confess at being somewhat of a coward to say something I thing may hurt someone's feelings--truth or not. I now make it a practice to talk on the phone with any prospective escort, just to avoid that type of problem, and it has worked fine.

 

Now I have had no hesitation to tell an escort upfront that it wasn't going to work out when, for instance one showed up and his dick was pierced--contrary to his AOL profile (obviously old and outta date) that said no "tats/piercings." I just flat-out told him that I found it a turn off and he was cool about it--but he chose to be pierced and it wasn't something one would normally take personally. I have seen a full gamut or reactions to the terms describing effeminent men just on this board, as well as in real life, and I have personally found it to be something that a lot of gay men take very personally and many would become offended and react badly when comments are made to the effect that they are effeminent. Just look at the variety of opinions expressed in this thread itself. So, yes, I hesitated to tell this very nice person that he was too effeminate for me to get really turned on sexually--mind you, a lot of my friends are just as effeminate or more so, but they are friends and not sex partners. So I agree with you in theory, but I personally have to use my own judgment in it's implementation. Again, if he had misrepresented something, then the brakes come off and it would be an entirely different situation. So guilty as charged

 

Phage the "purse falling out of the mouth" comment HAS been in gay venues, especially on college campuses, for at least 6 months now and has become popular with both gays and str8s, but I'm sure it'll be here for a while.

 

Flower :*

[Guest jeffOH]

>Phage the "purse falling out of the mouth" comment HAS been

>in gay venues, especially on college campuses, for at least

>6 months now and has become popular with both gays and

>str8s, but I'm sure it'll be here for a while.

 

It's yet another tired variation of a well-worn theme.

 

I've also heard over the years, "he opened his mouth and...chiffon" and "he opened his mouth and pearls fell out".

 

JEFF

[email protected]

[Bilbo]

Many, many years ago, when the guys were out in public and one of them thought that his friend was being a little too open in his speech, he would sometimes council his friend about "dropping pearls before swine," which cuts both ways and is therefore more neutral. Has it lead to this? Etymologists might want to know.

[BuckyXTC]

>Don’t you see how

>over-the-top crazy it is for you to compare

>effeminacy to diseases and physical disabilities? To

>put a simple behavior on par with those things is the kind

>of political-correctness-run-amok that nullifies any

>legitimate point you are trying to make. Children in

>wheelchairs? Babies with birth defects? Come on…

 

Phage:

 

The next thing I expect you''ll be telling us is that being gay is a "chosen lifestyle". It is one thing to chose to use effeminate affectations ("camping it up") but quite another to be effeminate for other reasons beyond one's control. I grew up with some folks who have been effeminate since childhood. I rather doubt there was some point in their childhood that they "decided" to be effeminate, especially when it opens them up to the ridicule that many folks are so ready to send their way.

 

And how do you make the distinction in the case of, for instance, someone who lisps or a man who has vocal qualities more akin to those we generally associate with the voice of a woman? Does it make any difference to you if someone displays these characteristics by choice or as a matter of biological determinants? We criticize children for their ability to be mercilessly cruel to other children if they lisp, stutter, or don't live up to the socially acceptable modes of being. As is clearly evidence here by various posts, adults can be every bit as cruel to others, because if they don't like something in another person (they feel threatened by it) then they feel the need to ridicule (excused by the lame reason that it's humor,)

 

Would you say that the best form of humor is that which is at the expense of someone else's feelings, that is, humor based on ridicule? If that's what you think, then at least I know where you're coming from. Frankly, I believe people who find their amusement in ridiculing the effeminate are not really any different than straights who ridicule gays.

 

Take a lesson from history. Go back and look at some of the newspapers from Germany during the years 1933-1945. You'll find lots of cartoons poking fun at Jews based on stereotypes of their physical appearance. Was that humor? Lots of Germans thought so. And where did that lead?

[Bilbo]

Dear ncm,

 

Apology accepted. You are so sweet to offer it. In return, a little advice from the theatre world - A joke explained is not funny. It must either stand on its own or not.

 

 

Pontificating? Moi? "Honey, I love the dress but your purse is on fire?" Little me? I am shocked, shocked I tell you. But I am neither protesting loudly, nor slapping you silly, nor spinning on my high heel and gliding out of the room. Because, even though I can see where I don't really think I want you to think that and so it might scare me, but I also recognize it as the flip coin of some things I do want people thinking about me, so it's fair.

 

High Ho (have to be to stay on that fucking {high} horse), and Potentate (hey, it has "potent" in it),

Bilbo

[Guest ncm2169]

Holy self-righteousness Batman! The PC police never sleep, do they?

 

Bucky, lighten up for Chrissake. Unless I have the wrong calendar, this is not Krystallnacht. You can beat your breasts, pound your fists and stomp your feet all you want, but I'm sorry, jokes about purses are not the equivalent of playground cruelty (IMHO). :-) In fact, I did spare you the litany of my past, and only referred to it because I have walked the walk, not just talked the talk (even if I don't lisp myself). ;-) As to my best friends, indeed, some of them are black, and some are jews, and some are handicapped, and some are lesbians, and some are gay guys who "act str8", and some are gay and lisp. So what? Over the years, we have marched together, prayed together, fought together, organized together, drank together, gotten high together, cried together, and YES, laughed together. I ain't no saint, but I've "been there when it counted" enough times that I'm not about to sit still and be lectured about what's funny in life and what's not. It's what's in the heart dude, and I suspect you and I have more in common in that regard than issues to spar over. Is it time yet to go out and have a beer? (However one does that over the net). :7

 

Bilbo, I know that a joke that needs to be explained is not funny; I just never ceased to be amazed at how many people never get the joke in the first place. I just thought the PC police might feel better if I explained that the joke was the irony, not the stereotype. (Wishful thinking on my part?)

 

And to my new best friend, alanalt thanks for the support and trying to stick to the topic as I first presented it. God, if I had only known what mischief my post would create! }>

 

BTW, to whoever wondered if I was "tripping", you caught me. Memo to self: gotta watch those funny brownies. :+

[+ Hoover42]

>"Honey, I love the dress but your purse is on fire?"

 

Bilbo, isn't that a Talullah Bankhead quote?

[Guest ncm2169]

Bilbo, sorry to be dense, but I don't get the joke. Can you or anyone else help me out here? :*

[phage]

>The next thing I expect you''ll be telling us is that being

>gay is a "chosen lifestyle".

 

Now you’re being kind of ridiculous. What does one thing have to do with the other? You continue to place this HUGE importance on effeminacy. First it’s on the same level as diseases and birth defects and now it’s up there with sexual orientation.

 

>And how do you make the distinction in the case of, for

>instance, someone who lisps or a man who has vocal qualities

>more akin to those we generally associate with the voice of

>a woman?

 

You mean like Mike Tyson? This big tough guy squeaking like a little girl. Yeah, that’s not funny. All those straight comics that have big making jokes all these years should be ashamed of themselves! (They must be self-hating.)

 

Does it make any difference to you if someone

>displays these characteristics by choice or as a matter of

>biological determinants?

 

Not a bit. Either way, it’s a characteristic that can be changed if it is so damn important. If it’s really as big a deal as HIV and brain tumors, then it might be worth the effort. Of course, I don’t think it is that big of a deal and that is exactly why I don’t think it is sacrosanct.

 

>Would you say that the best form of humor is that which is

>at the expense of someone else's feelings, that is, humor

>based on ridicule?

 

I don’t try to make judgements about what is “best” and what is appropriate and what is acceptable humor. I know what makes me laugh and sometimes it’s dark and twisted. If it’s ironic or clever…I can laugh at virtually anything. Funny is funny and it doesn’t have any deeper meaning or symbolism for me.

 

Frankly, I believe people

>who find their amusement in ridiculing the effeminate are

>not really any different than straights who ridicule gays.

 

You see…even that doesn’t bother me. I’m a big boy. I'm pretty secure about the cards I’ve been dealt, the choices I’ve made, and the life I lead. If they say something humorous about homo’s in general or me in particular, I’m going to laugh. If it’s not funny, it has no effect at all.

[Bilbo]

Actually, I can help you out here without explaining the joke because I didn't tell all of the joke.

 

It was sort of like the guy who is visiting the jail and at the dinner table the inmates are sitting around and one yells out a number and the rest of them start laughing. This happens a couple of times and the visitor finally has to ask the guard what is going on. The guard says that they have told all of the jokes they know so many times that they just numbered them and now instead of telling them all the way through they just say the number. The visitor is intrigued, tempted, etc and can't resist telling one himself that way, even though he won't know what he's saying. So he yells out a number and nothing happens. No noise. Etc. The guard shrugs and says, "Some people just can't tell a joke."

 

Anyway, I don't know if Talulah originated this joke or not but the whole of it goes something like this - A gay queen was visiting an Episcopal church for the first time and saw the priest in his vestments swinging his censor with the smoke of the incense rising from it as he walked down the aisle. The queen blurted out, "I love your dress, honey, but your purse is on fire."

 

Any takers for the one about the mother in law and the soup ladle?