State/Country Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>Hey Rod, :7

>

> Wouldn't the more proper question be:

>If there were no laws concerning age of consent and all ages

>were available what age preference would be your you choice?

>Isn't this really the answer you're after?

>Did something horrible happen to you when you were young?

>You seem so obsessed with this topic.

>

>Take care, Les

 

Les, I agree and have wondered the same thing about Rod. He has always been very obsessed with the age of consent topic and seems to have so issues he needs to work on related to it.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

 

"I *am* a moderator. I didn't notice that policy change.

I *have* noticed your continued open hostility to everything about this site and wonder why you still come here if you hate it so. But it's a free country. Wail away, dude. Complain to someone who gives a shit. I'm sure you'll find someone, somewhere." deej

[Rod Hagen]

The age of consent in California is 18, and so many hear feel that it's ok to hire 18 year-old submissives to serve their penis. Now I admit that 24, the start of my comfort zone, is probably pretty fucking arbitrary, so how about states, like New York, where the age of consent is 17, or Maine where it's 16, are we ok wtih hiring guys that young? Why or why not? How about in Spain where it's 13, are we ok with hiring those boys?

 

I'm serious. Please Be honest. Don't just say "It's not for me". Please, let's have a poll who thinks that it's ok for yourself or others to hire someone who's 17 if that's the legal age of consent, then 16, 15, 13. I'm curious.

 

I PROMISE not to attack anybody (in this thread anyway) for their answers. I'm really really curious is all.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

 

>The age of consent in California is 18, and so many hear

>feel that it's ok to hire 18 year-old submissives to serve

>their penis. Now I admit that 24, the start of my comfort

>zone, is probably pretty fucking arbitrary, so how about

>states, like New York, where the age of consent is 17, or

>Maine where it's 16, are we ok wtih hiring guys that young?

>Why or why not? How about in Spain where it's 13, are we ok

>with hiring those boys?

>

>I'm serious. Please Be honest. Don't just say "It's not for

>me". Please, let's have a poll who thinks that it's ok for

>yourself or others to hire someone who's 17 if that's the

>legal age of consent, then 16, 15, 13. I'm curious.

>

>I PROMISE not to attack anybody (in this thread anyway) for

>their answers. I'm really really curious is all.

 

17, 16, 15? Yes. (though for the most part, this is "not for me" territory)

 

13? I have to admit the "ewww" factor is pretty high here, and I would tend to worry, but it occurs to me that I know zilch about the sexual culture of Spanish youth, and what impact a low age of consent has had on their development. Do they have higher rates of 13- and 14- year-olds tragically fucking up their lives than we do? Or are their young people (the theory, I guess, would go) more mature in their sexuality because their culture allows them to mature sexually? That might make a difference in answering the question, as might knowing what Spain's child labor laws are like. It seems like a reasonable standard might be to say that if the person is old enough to consent to sex and old enough to have a job, then he's old enough to consider sex work. (Yes, I understand the point that most people of that age shouldn't do it, but here's the thing -- MOST people of ANY age shouldn't do sex work. It's a damaging profession for ANYONE who is doing it unhappily.)

[Guest Jocoluver]

RE: Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

 

Age of consent (sex, alcohol) in USA should be same as age for eligibility to serve in military. If they are old enough to serve as cannon fodder, they are old enough to suck/be sucked, fuck/be fucked.

 

Oh wait, homo's can't serve in our military at any age openly!

 

Never mind! }>

[marc anthony]

The age of consent is not relevant law when it comes to hiring. Even if the age of consent is 13, 15, 16 etc. in various places, kids of that age cannot consent to make pornography... or use sexual acts to make money. That is pretty universally 18 in every place in this world of ours. 18.

 

That's what the world thinks. That's what I think.

[Rod Hagen]

Age of consent is certainly more relevant than say "Whether or not they are allowed to die in a war" (see Joculover) or "whether or not they are allowed to do pornos" isn't it? Marc Anthony if age of consent shouldn't be at least part of the deciding factor (if there is one) what should? Perhaps age of consent is relevant combined with, what Devon said, old enough to "work" legally. But if not age of consent, then where do YOU draw the line Marc Anthony, not in the decisions you make, but what you think is acceptable? Or is that all in the other thread that you started and I haven't had a chance to look at yet? :-)

 

Devon, that's a very PC answer-concern for other culture's mores and such-and so if you are the kind of person who doesn't believe that one can judge what others do based on your own code, but rather on someone's "culture" or "upbringing" (a very collegiate attitude indeed) than your answer is very forthright. Myself, I'm into blanket judgments based on my own code, which isn't baseless, of what's right and wrong, and am less concerned with individual's cultures and upbringings. It's easier that way because you don't always have to make allowances. I do like your addition of old enough to legally hold a job as well as age of consent. I do think age of consent is also relevant. But 13?! :-)

[BuckyXTC]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>The age of consent in California is 18, and so many hear

>feel that it's ok to hire 18 year-old submissives to serve

>their penis.

 

Hi Rod:

 

Before I share my answer to your question about age, I would just say that not everyone who hires the younger crowd is hiring "submissives to serve their penis". A fair number of us, myself included, tend to hire tops exclusively, so I don't know if that distinction has any relevance for your views, but I offer it nevertheless as something to think about.

 

For me, 18 would be the absolute lower limit, and I'm not totally comfortable with 18....would prefer 19 and up when all is said and done.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>For me, 18 would be the absolute lower limit, and I'm not

>totally comfortable with 18....would prefer 19 and up when

>all is said and done.

 

But exactly why 18 (19) if sex (bottom or top, I don't care) is legal at a younger age? Or is it something innexplicable that you can't articulate (don't you hate that?)?

[BuckyXTC]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>But exactly why 18 (19) if sex (bottom or top, I don't care)

>is legal at a younger age? Or is it something innexplicable

>that you can't articulate (don't you hate that?)?

 

What I'm saying is that I don't think it should be legal below 18. Do I have a profound answer as to why that is my lower limit? Not really, other than the issue of maturity is involved. I've know 18 and 19 year olds with the psychological maturity of men much older, and I've known men much older with the maturity of early teens. Beyond the issue of sex, I enjoy being around the 18-25 set. Maybe it's their enthusiasm for life and adventurous spirit that appeals to me.

 

I think of the 18 year old as one at the beginning of adulthood.

Younger than that, in my opinion, we're talking about children.

And I have no sexual interest in children, whatsoever.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

 

>Devon, that's a very PC answer-concern for other culture's

>mores and such-and so if you are the kind of person who

>doesn't believe that one can judge what others do based on

>your own code, but rather on someone's "culture" or

>"upbringing" (a very collegiate attitude indeed) than your

>answer is very forthright.

 

I wasn't trying to be PC. My response allows for the possiblity that there's something wrong with a culture that has 13 as its age of consent. I just don't know enough about Spanish culture to make that judgement. At the end of the day, I'm probably just as reliant on my own code for making judgements as anybody. It's just that part of my code includes getting a little more info about the context before I issue them.

 

Besides, isn't cultural context inextricably bound up with questions of what is and isn't age-appropriate behavior? Aren't many of our ideas about child welfare, in fact, to some considerable degree byproducts of our culture's wealth and accompanying standards of living? (E.g., what's considered exploitation now wasn't exploitation a hundred years ago, etc.)

 

> I do like your addition of old enough to legally hold a job as

>well as age of consent. I do think age of consent is also

>relevant. But 13?! :-)

 

Hey, cut me some slack. I did say "ewwww!"

[Guest Les]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

Hey Rod, :7

 

Wouldn't the more proper question be:

If there were no laws concerning age of consent and all ages were available what age preference would be your you choice?

Isn't this really the answer you're after?

Did something horrible happen to you when you were young? You seem so obsessed with this topic.

 

Take care, Les

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent =

 

>The age of consent is not relevant law when it comes to

>hiring. Even if the age of consent is 13, 15, 16 etc. in

>various places, kids of that age cannot consent to make

>pornography... or use sexual acts to make money. That is

>pretty universally 18 in every place in this world of ours.

>18.

>

Marc you beat me to it. You are 100% correct. Rod is only listing the age of consent not the age to engage in some very specific sexual practices. Also, what Rod leaves out are all of the restrictions that go with that age of consent. I would advise Rod (not that he would have an interest but for the sake of this point) not to have sex with that 13 year old in Spain as at his age Rod will be doing some jail time.

 

Lastly, Rod AOC.com is not the most reliable source for this information. You really need to do your homework.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

[marc anthony]

>Age of consent is certainly more relevant than say "Whether

>or not they are allowed to die in a war" (see Joculover) or

>"whether or not they are allowed to do pornos" isn't it?

>Marc Anthony if age of consent shouldn't be at least part of

>the deciding factor (if there is one) what should? Perhaps

>age of consent is relevant combined with, what Devon said,

>old enough to "work" legally. But if not age of consent,

>then where do YOU draw the line Marc Anthony, not in the

>decisions you make, but what you think is acceptable? Or is

>that all in the other thread that you started and I haven't

>had a chance to look at yet? :-)

 

 

Three things. 1) Was my answer to your question not clear? I wrote in my response, "18. That's what the world thinks; that's what I think." Seems pretty clear.

 

2) The age for doing pornos is more relevant than the age of consent, because the age of doing pornos is the age that someone is allowed to get paid for doing a sexual act. If prostitution were legal, I am sure that age would be the one that is applied, not the age of consent.

 

3) And even though you said that you just wanted opinions and you weren't going to attack anyone, I understand your need to attack me. Really, I do.

 

[Flower]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>>For me, 18 would be the absolute lower limit, and I'm not

>>totally comfortable with 18....would prefer 19 and up when

>>all is said and done.

>

>But exactly why 18 (19) if sex (bottom or top, I don't care)

>is legal at a younger age? Or is it something innexplicable

>that you can't articulate (don't you hate that?)?

 

Age of consent is a legal not a moral concept and as such had to be a bright line rule for enforceability. It is arrived at by political consensus and certainly not guaranteed to be logical, morally correct, nor emotionally non-damaging. As with all political decisions, it is made to make more people happy than not, and still serve the intended purpose, although that purpose be compromised just as was the process by which it was determined.

 

Rod you have raised this and similar issues several times and I think it takes balls to do so, especially since you always receive so much shit for it. I really don't think you are threatened by 18 yo escorts as your ulterior motive, but have a genuine concern for these kids--and I use the term intentionally--they are kids--no more no less. I can think of many reasons why we send our kids off to fight our wars, in addition to the fact that most of them have yet to have their own families--they are physically at their prime, they are mentally malleable, and emotionally dependent on older father figures to tell them what to do. More importantly, they take orders better than someone who has learned to think for himself.

 

I have to tell you, I love being with younger guys, but I have turned down as many as I have not, mainly for the reason of emotional immaturity and just not feeling comfortable with the situation. I would love to believe, as many here do, that since the "GOVERNMENT" has said they can fight a war or go to work, then they are fair game for sexual delights of older men--but that is too easy and takes away the moral decision making responsibility we all have.

 

Last week I almost responded to Devon's statement on one of the threads about how he encouraged "Adrian" to go into escorting. I didn't cause I was personally involved, however, since he continues to defend his position, my response, if made, would have been and now is "SHAME SHAME ON YOU, DEVON." I know "Adrian' and while I'll not violate any confidences shared, my opinion is 180 degrees from Devon's and my statement to Devon still stands. Devon even admitted in the thread at wondering if he did the right thing, and I suggest that morality took a back seat to a hard on.

 

I'll also suggest that the reason you get so much shit about raising these issues, Rod, is that you make people uncomfortable--especially us who like the younger guys. You raise hard questions that go beyond allowing the state to say yay or nay, or easily influenced KIDS to decide for themselves, but rather force us to raise our head up from the sand and not default to someone else making the decision for us, but rather take responsibility for our own moral actions and decisions.

 

I have met some 18 and 19 yo who in fact seemed well adjusted and emotionally stable and who really seemed to have fun and enjoy their escorting, and who were NOT desperate; but not a lot

As I've said before, part of the issue here is the disparity in bargaining power or leverage between the buyer and the seller, along with these other factors, and usually youth is at a great disadvantage in leverage and bargaining power.

 

Those are value judgments of course, but they are factors brought up in other threads for making a moral judgment in these cases rather than forsake any moral responsibility because the state has allowed you to do so by creating an artificial politically made rule of majority.

 

On the other hand, I don't know that 24 is any better than 26 or 22 or 20 -- I think it is pretty individualized. We all are responsible for our own moral decisions or lack there of, and just because the state says something is "not illegal," doesn't make it moral or right, as nice as it would be to let someone else take the responsibility for the decision. We at least need to individually make these decisions with a semblance of consciousness and concern for the lives we are affecting.

 

So Rod, the more power to you for raising hard questions--I think you're courageous for doing so, especially since you are one of the few people on here who raise these issues and take positions on them that are not necessarily popular AND WHO IS IDENTIFIABLE, as opposed to most of the rest of us who hide behind screen names--so please keep it up.

BTW, have you noticed that most of your detractors on this issue never give well reasoned opinions for their views, but rather defer to the state or the young man selling his bod for the only rationale they have or need?

 

 

 

Flower :*

[Guest Kalifornia]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

DISCLAIMER ALERT

 

Not a sinlge thing that Flower wrote applies to me. I do not agree with one sentence of his too long opinion. I will reply to two points.

 

A- I feel Rod Dishes out as much "shit" if not more about this topic than he receives. You Flower have not been paying attention.

 

B- I do not feel uncomforable at all about hiring someone of legal age in the Country that I happen to be in. As I have said before as long as the law has stated they are legal the younger looking the better. BUT I STRESS THIS IS NOTED WITH THE PREFIX IF THEY ARE LEGAL ACCORDING TO LAW.

 

Mark -Kalifornia

 

I *am* a moderator. I didn't notice that policy change.

I *have* noticed your continued open hostility to everything about this site and wonder why you still come here if you hate it so. But it's a free country. Wail away, dude. Complain to someone who gives a shit. I'm sure you'll find someone, somewhere." deej

 

- HUH?

[Guest newawlens]

RE: Age to Whore out?

 

Kudos to Rod for raising a thought-provoking issue. To those who are complaining about his desire to discuss this, why bother to read this thread if it's so distasteful to you? Just confine yourselves to the threads that have nothing but stale sex jokes and juvenile remarks about some escort's dick. There are plenty of those for people who find it too painful to think.

 

A couple of things.

 

In this country there is no age of consent to be a prostitute, it's illegal whether you are 15 or 51. So what is the connection between the age of consent for other things and deciding to be a prostitute? Isn't this just something that some clients pull out of the air to make themselves feel better?

 

Why anyone would think the age of military service is relevant I do not get. Military service is a situation in which you are not called on to make a lot of decisions, they are all made for you by your superiors. This spring NPR did a great program on young men and women serving on the aircraft carrier "Stennis" in the Persian Gulf. They are all doing jobs that consist of a lot of repetitive tasks and involve little or no decisionmaking. I see no logic in the proposition that if you are old enough to do that you must have the maturity to make decisions about issues like like alcohol and sex. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

I agree with much of what Flower says. Drafting a law that applies to everyone in a country of millions means that the law is not going to take into account all of the differences between individuals and won't fit everyone perfectly. The age of consent law reflects a consensus in our society that most people under that age are likely to be too immature to make certain decisions. It doesn't mean that everyone over that age will be mature enough to make them. People who say it doesn mean that are reading something into it that isn't there to rationalize their own actions. Seems to me they are the ones who need to grow up.

 

I personally prefer the younger guys, but I understand that this sort of thing can have a bad effect on the people who do it and I try to exercise at least a little judgment to avoid people who don't seem to have the maturity to handle it. One of the people in this thread said in another thread a while back about the young guys he hires, "They can't think too clearly but they sure are fuckable!" That is the attitude I try to avoid. Another said he assumes many of us started by hiring hustlers off the street. I didn't. Being in that situation is a sign that a guy is not in control of what is happening in his life and I avoid those guys for that reason.

[BewareofNick]

RE: Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

 

About three years ago, I came across an escort profile on AOL for a kid who claimed to be 16. My first thought was that this was some kind of joke, or it was a police officer with a very obvious entrapment scheme. Naturally, I IM'd and wrote something like, "Evening, officer." He responded back with lol and insisted that eh really was 16. We chatted for a while. He had links to sites which contained GA state law about age of consent and all that good stuff. (If I remember correctly, hiring him at 16 was a felony, but 17 and up was just a misdemeanor!)

 

We chatted for a while. He was an honors student at his high school, "A" average and involved in a lot of different things. He sent me some pictures (non nude of course at my request). Very cute kid. I asked why in the world he would be whoring at the age of 16 and he said why not? He was gay, loved sex, he was cute and older men liked him. He said he was putting the money away and had accumulated a little over $1,000 at that point. He asked if I was interested and I politely declined.

 

I still wasn't quite convinced, so I started bringing him up in covnersation with some of the other escorts I knew. Come to find out the kid was for real.

 

I waited until he was 18, which was a little over a year later. (He was 16, but had a birthday coming up in like 2 months when I talked with him) At some point, he changed his profile to read 18 since apparently he was attracting a lot of attention (imagine that!) I continuted to chat with him. Over the course of that next year , he accumulated close to $10,000. When I finally did meet him, I asked to see his license, which he happpily showed me and guess what? He was 18. He had been telling the truth all along. I had a great time with him and saw him on three occasions. Very bright and articulate. He was saving up the money for college, down payment on car, apartment money, etc. The experience hadn't seemed to damage him at all.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: Age to Whore out?

 

>Kudos to Rod for raising a thought-provoking issue. To

>those who are complaining about his desire to discuss this,

>why bother to read this thread if it's so distasteful to

>you? Just confine yourselves to the threads that have

>nothing but stale sex jokes and juvenile remarks about some

>escort's dick. There are plenty of those for people who

>find it too painful to think.

 

Pardon us all to hell. We're collectivly sorry that all our posts are not of a significantly high standard to satisfy your intellectual aspirations. Now just relax and remove your head from your colon.

 

Thunderbuns

[BuckyXTC]

RE: Age to Whore out?

 

>Why anyone would think the age of military service is

>relevant I do not get. Military service is a situation in

>which you are not called on to make a lot of decisions, they

>are all made for you by your superiors.

>

 

And my reply is "Why anyone would not think the age of military service is relevant I do not get." We're dealing with risk factors in this discussion, whether we choose to call it that or not.

 

This isn't rocket science. Serving in the military presents significant risks to the well being of the person who chooses to do so (or maybe didn't choose to do so some years back when we had miitary conscription or the draft). If you can think of any situations bigger than being ordered to kill someone or putting yourself in a situation where there is a substantial risk of being killed, I'd love to hear what that would be.

 

No line of work is without risk.....but serving in the military is particularly a high risk profession, a dangerous business. Soldiers get killed all the time, even in training exercises where no real combat comes into play. Since the "age of consent" concept means the age at which someone may legally decide to engage in a specified activity, with precautions taken, I'd think choosing to be an escort would be eminently safer than rooting out terrorists in Afghanistan.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

 

BON I imagine you pacing back and forth outside his public school, bidding your time until the kid becomes legal. Very Elvis Presley of you.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>Last week I almost responded to Devon's statement on one of

>the threads about how he encouraged "Adrian" to go into

>escorting. I didn't cause I was personally involved,

>however, since he continues to defend his position, my

>response, if made, would have been and now is "SHAME SHAME

>ON YOU, DEVON." I know "Adrian' and while I'll not violate

>any confidences shared, my opinion is 180 degrees from

>Devon's and my statement to Devon still stands.

 

I'm sure Adrian appreciates the trustworthiness of a close confidant like yourself, but could you give me at least some idea of what basis you have for your opinion being 180 degrees from mine? You shouldn't need to spill any secrets to do so, since none of the points that made up my position in the 'Child's Play' thread (which I assume is the one you mean) even referred to Adrian apart from mentioning a) that he had another job while he was here and b) that he moved to New York to pursue the career he went to a very good school for. Why not just go to the thread and pick apart my position? There are no statements about Adrian to refute that I can find there.

 

By the way, 'encouragement' is not quite the right word to describe Adrian's introduction to escorting. I am extremely cautious ANYTIME someone approaches me with that beginner's curiosity, and oftentimes I tell them flat out that I don't think they can or should do it. In Adrian's case I grilled him extensively about his reasons and circumstances. I told him not to rush into it, and in fact he did take a few weeks to mull it over (he had already been considering it a long time before he met me). I spent a lot of time discussing the pitfalls and exaggerated every bad experience I had (the collection, admittedly, is pretty paltry). When he decided to go for it I had him read Aaron Lawrence's book and spend a lot of time reading the reviews on this site to get insights into the clients' perspective. I told him to go get tested for everything and vaccinated for Hepatitis A & B. Early on we had an appointment together so I could get a sense of how he interacts with clients (admittedly having me there changes the dynamic but it's amazing the little things you can observe). I had him call me and debrief after every appointment.

 

Now, once he had made the decision to do it, did I encourage him? Absolutely. Once he had tried it a few times and decided he liked it (notwithstanding whatever dark confessions he made to you), did I heap the encouragement on? You bet. And not only did I encourage him, I talked him up in the diary, partly because he was a prominent presence in my life, but even more so because I wanted him meeting the kind of good, decent, sincere, honest, often inspirational guys I've met through the diary, and to give him the benefit of that reservoir of goodwill that seems to be there with clients who want to meet partly because of a genuine interest in getting to know the person, if only a little.

 

Maybe it would have been better NOT to take an interest in his introduction to escorting. Maybe I should have just stayed tight-lipped, told him he was too young, and sent him on his way rather than expose him to the corrupting influence of my personality. I believe that he would have decided to try escorting anyway on his own (though maybe a few months later), and that maybe, just maybe, he's gone about it in a better way, or at least had an easier time of it, as a result of his proverbial apprenticeship with me.

 

>Devon even

>admitted in the thread at wondering if he did the right

>thing, and I suggest that morality took a back seat to a

>hard on.

 

Then let's see you back up your suggestion. In the six months we've known each other, Adrian and I have hooked up, by my count, all of five times, six tops, the last three of which were with clients. We were no longer having sex, in fact, by the time he started escorting (though we did sleep together in the same bed sometimes). Besides, the notion that anyone push people into escorting so he could have sex with them more often is hilarious. The words someone dating an escort hears most frequently are "I'm exhausted. G'night."

 

>you are one of the few people on here who raise these issues and

>take positions on them that are not necessarily popular AND

>WHO IS IDENTIFIABLE, as opposed to most of the rest of us

>who hide behind screen names--so please keep it up.

>BTW, have you noticed that most of your detractors on this

>issue never give well reasoned opinions for their views, but

>rather defer to the state or the young man selling his bod

>for the only rationale they have or need?

 

Oh, I know you meant this part for Rod, but it applies so neatly to me as well. Most of my detractors on this issue have done precisely what you have done -- hide behind a screen name while inaccurately characterizing my relationship with twinks (in this case Adrian, in others the gay nephew), in liew of actually taking my arguments head on. You've upped the ante by invoking a vague sense of authority based on your relationship with Adrian, the nature of which, is, of course, strictly hush-hush. Due to the classified nature of the information you are privy to, you must reluctantly denounce Devon as shameful and amoral, even exploitative, in the process doing a nifty little hit-and-run on Adrian's business by implying -- and offering NO BASIS whatsoever -- that you have good reason to know why he shouldn't be escorting. A two-fer!

 

Seriously, Flower, if you know something I don't, I hope you'll use your private relationship with Adrian to help him if you have any evidence of self-destructive behavior, or unhappiness, or whatever you're alleging the problem is. Since he confides in you, that seems a better way to go than taking it upon yourself to try to damage his career under the cover of a screen name.

[marc anthony]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

Flower, you raise some interesting points... I just want to make some comments on a few of them...>

>

>Age of consent is a legal not a moral concept and as such

>had to be a bright line rule for enforceability. It is

>arrived at by political consensus and certainly not

>guaranteed to be logical, morally correct, nor emotionally

>non-damaging.

 

I have mentioned in above threads that the age of consent is decided upon in each individual domain without consideration of the appropriate age that someone can sell a sexual act for money. Even in jurisdictions where the legal age of consent is say 16, I can guarantee you it is a felony to hire a 17 yo prostitute, or make a pornographic film with a 17 yo. So even though there is no relevant law, the more appropriate law we are dealing with when it comes to age of hiring, is the one which governs the age that someone can make pornography. That being said, I agree that Rod is searching for a "moral" law age, not really a legal one.

 

>

>Rod you have raised this and similar issues several times

>and I think it takes balls to do so, especially since you

>always receive so much shit for it.

 

As the recipient of a lot of Rod's shit, I can tell you he dishes it out as well. Don't get me wrong... it makes the board very interesting, and I wouldn't change it for the world. It just takes a lot of energy to respond to, and I don't always feel like responding.

 

 

 

>

>I have to tell you, I love being with younger guys, but I

>have turned down as many as I have not, mainly for the

>reason of emotional immaturity and just not feeling

>comfortable with the situation. I would love to believe,

>as many here do, that since the "GOVERNMENT" has said they

>can fight a war or go to work, then they are fair game for

>sexual delights of older men--but that is too easy and takes

>away the moral decision making responsibility we all have.

 

Don't you feel that many of us who hire the younger set exercise this same element of discretion? I use this site to screen for escorts who seem well-adjusted. I repeat with escorts who have it together. I "befriend" (here come the boo-birds) those who are really exceptional. I feel that I can make these distinctions, and I don't need another arbitrary line (like Rod's 24, for example) to eliminate a whole set of possibilities.

 

 

>

>I have met some 18 and 19 yo who in fact seemed well

>adjusted and emotionally stable and who really seemed to

>have fun and enjoy their escorting, and who were NOT

>desperate; but not a lot

 

This is interesting... (and I am being serious and not facetious). I tend to hire escorts between 18 and 23 (and also tend to hire the more stable ones), so I don't have much experience with the 24 and ups. Is it the feeling that the older group is less desperate? Logic might speak otherwise, actually. As a group, there are many reasons why the younger set might escort... pay for school, experiment for fun, desperation. To my view, there are fewer reasons why an older person might do it... and although clearly people like Rod and Devon are not desperate, I don't have any sense that escorts that start at an older age are any less desperate than the younger ones. But I really don't KNOW...

 

>On the other hand, I don't know that 24 is any better than

>26 or 22 or 20 -- I think it is pretty individualized. We

>all are responsible for our own moral decisions or lack

>there of, and just because the state says something is "not

>illegal," doesn't make it moral or right, as nice as it

>would be to let someone else take the responsibility for the

>decision. We at least need to individually make these

>decisions with a semblance of consciousness and concern for

>the lives we are affecting.

 

 

I completely agree with this statement... and that is why I always disagree with Rod's blanket statement that we should NEVER hire the younger escorts. I actually like these guys, and I have no intention of hurting them. And I think I am smart enough and moral enough to decide when an escort/client encounter is unhealthy for either of us.

 

>So Rod, the more power to you for raising hard questions--I

>think you're courageous for doing so, especially since you

>are one of the few people on here who raise these issues and

>take positions on them that are not necessarily popular AND

>WHO IS IDENTIFIABLE, as opposed to most of the rest of us

>who hide behind screen names--so please keep it up.

 

Flower, you are naive if you think us regular posters are not identifiable. Escorts talk, clients talk... I can tell you right now that I am VERY identifiable amongst the escorts and many clients. Marc Anthony may not be my real name, but neither is Rod Hagen his. The escort community is a pretty close group... and if you are an exceptional client (very good, very bad, or very prolific), they know who you are.

 

 

>BTW, have you noticed that most of your detractors on this

>issue never give well reasoned opinions for their views, but

>rather defer to the state or the young man selling his bod

>for the only rationale they have or need?

 

This is the crux of the whole matter, actually. It is not really logic that we need here, but data. And unfortunately, I don't know how we will ever get it. This is an emotional issue... balancing a sexual desire with the potential for doing social harm. Is there actually good data out there that suggests prostitution does harm? Is there good data out there that shows that 18-23 yo escorts have more long term ill-effects from the experience than those that start at a later age? I guess no, that statistically there is no difference between them and the older group. Rod would guess yes. Neither of us know.

 

This is an emotional issue, obviously. So without data, our arguments always deteriorate to you feel that way, well I feel this way. And our perspectives are colored by who we are and who we hire. We have no idea if we are doing harm. And we have no idea if the people we are arguing with are doing good. Without data, all we can do is do what works for us.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Age of Consent = Age to Whore out?

 

>BON I imagine you pacing back and forth outside his public

>school, bidding your time until the kid becomes legal. Very

>Elvis Presley of you.

 

Not an attack!!! Just a joke just a joke. I promised I wouldn't attack. :-)

[Rod Hagen]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>Flower, you are naive if you think us regular posters are

>not identifiable. Escorts talk, clients talk... I can tell

>you right now that I am VERY identifiable amongst the

>escorts and many clients. Marc Anthony may not be my real

>name, but neither is Rod Hagen his.

 

 

RH isn't my real name, but 310.360.9890 is my oft-published number (and from that it's very easy to get my home address by making an appointment). What's your phone number and address MA?

 

>The escort community is

>a pretty close group... and if you are an exceptional client

>(very good, very bad, or very prolific), they know who you

>are.

 

No we're not. In fact we don't talk much at all. The only regular poster escorts I've met are Steve PacNW and Dan Dare, and I share regulars with both of them, so that's not so surprising. The only other escort I've ever met is a guy out in Palm Springs I did a 3some with in LA. THAT'S IT. Most of the guys at the gay Starbucks I hang at are escorts, but I don't talk to them, ever.

 

And my email exchanges w/escorts are rare, brief and curt, Devon can attest to that :-)

 

The Truth is that when I'm with a new client who displays personality traits I attribute to some of the posters here, I often ask myself is this actually Marc Anthony (or Bitchboy, or Sports or Lucky) finally hiring me to see if I'm really the asshole/fuckmonster I seem to be. But I know absolutely nothing about any of you, and don't plan to pursue it.

 

MA, for instance, I know that you've hired Brogan, and although he and I have never met, he adores me. But I'd never ask about you, it wouldn't occur to me (except it just did, but I wouldn't). I have no desire to. I'll just look for you in the eyes of all my new clients (which in the last 2 months has been about 4) as I mentally project "See, I'm NOT such a dick".

[Rod Hagen]

RE: State/Country Age of Consent

 

>New York to pursue the career he went to a very good school

>for. Why not just go to the thread and pick apart my

>position? There are no statements about Adrian to refute

>that I can find there.

 

I suppose that he's implying that in his assessment Adrian is neither has-it-together nor is as unaffected by the side effects of escorting as either you or he would like people to believe. It's probably based less on any confessions you could fish out of Flower, than on his own personal assessment that may actually require some indiscression to reveal.