What escorts face day to day and why should it be kept quiet

[Guest mvan1]

 

Criminal abuse and theft are prosecuted by DA's courtesy of the state. Civil suits are filed with a nominal fee and whoever loses pays the court and can be completed without the assistance of a laqyer if the filer so chooses to risk representing himself.

 

 

It is true that criminal acts are prosecuted without direct cost to the complainant. However, generally, payment for illegal acts are not enforceabe. Only in the state of Nevada is prostitutuon legal.

 

Sorry, you are not correct about this matter .

[Guest RyanCade]

My hats off to you my friend.

 

Wow. You've posted some very thought provoking and deeply personal posts recently Ryan, and I appreciate your willingness to be so open and to take the risk of being so frank about your thoughts and concerns.

This is certainly an intense thread and seems to bring up a lot of stuff for people.

 

It seems to me that the MINIMUM standard for escorts is to meet what I call the three "P"s

Presence - If you make an appointment, show up!

Performance - If you said you offer the service, provide it!

Privacy - After the session, DO NOT discuss the client with other parties. PERIOD.

To that extent, I totally agree with the posters who raise concerns regarding client's privacy being violated by escorts sharing personal information.

 

On the flip side, if a client does not pay for services which were rendered, he is no longer a client, but a thief.

If a client assaults or injures an escort, he is no longer a client, but a criminal.

Thieves and criminals do NOT have a right to commit their acts in private.

 

Frankly, if you screw someone, whether as a provider OR a consumer, you can expect that word will get out about you. As the adage goes, a customer who has a good experience will tell one person - a customer who has a bad experience will tell ten people. That applies to many relationships.

Review sites, whether intended for escorts or for clients, are just one way of the word getting out. Even if all of them were shut down, people will find a way to spread the word.

 

That being said, as many other posters have astutely pointed out, review sites are rife with possibilities for abuse or confusion. The wise individual obviously will take such reviews with a grain of salt and read between the lines.

 

Fortunately, I have never had cause to use, or participate in client review sites.

I've been lucky to have generally only dealt with guys who were good guys.

I also put great effort into screening out bad apples in order to avoid having to deal with a client who would be egregious enough to move from the category of client into one which would justify my breaking confidentiality (ie thief or criminal.) That screening means I may risk ending up screening out a client who was a good guy after all every once in a while, but life is to short for either me or a client to waste our time having a bad experience when there are so many good experiences to be had.

 

As clients, there will escorts who gossip about you. As escorts, there will be clients who try and screw you over.

You can do the best you can to protect yourself, and still sometimes bad stuff happens to innocent people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

In the end all any of us can do is to try and be the kind of people we want to surround ourselves with.

 

That was amazing. Thank You! I absolutely agree with every single word.

[SteveStacks]

Thanks Ryan. Very kind of you to say!

[instudiocity]

I think Diverdan has hit the proverbial nail on the head. It seems to me that there is a huge difference been "Dial & Go" escorting and the general type of escorting most often referred to here. With "Dial & Go" there are no preliminaries. There's no 'get to know one another' time. There's just this "I'm horny and I want to blow a load on you" deal.

 

I'm looking for a business relationship with just a small number of gentlemen who are interested in a business relationship with me. I'm willing to permit a certain amount of transparency so the the contractor can have some assurances but at the same time, I do want discretion, anonymity and confidentiality.

 

In two instances Ryan Cade reports in his OP, he's talking about totally anonymous, "Dial & Go" encounters. Truely this is a highly risky behavior on Ryan's part. In the third instance, Ryan's talking about Escort Review abuse and then a client relationship that turned sour. But the client revealed himself to Ryan when he posted the false review. Ryan, you need to use discernment to decide if the men you are seeing are genuine or shady. Your TN client sounds shady from the beginning, an overnight turning into several might be financially appealing but what's it say about his respect for you and your time?, two screen names, abusive reviews of other escorts, your uncertainty as to his truthfulness about removing the review, his willingness to upturn your LA plans to accommodate him, the no-show. Why wouldn't he threaten to defame you on Daddy's? He was already getting his jollies power-tripping you, from the very first date.

[raife]

Ryan,

 

I don't understand why you feel the need to repeatedly defend yourself to people espousing a false dichotomy who can't even accept your basic premise: the client's privacy is assured until they try to scam or fuck over the escort. They continue to put forth this simplistic nonsense that if an escort violates some bullshit professional code of conduct that they made up in their own minds that they should be on the shitlist no matter what the circumstance.

 

Damn I really can't believe there are also regulars here that defending the canard that since the activity occurs outside this country's bullshit moralistic legal boundaries that all expectation of security goes away and it's dog-eat-dog every man for himself.

 

I don't see that you have to justify your security choices to anybody here, you need to protect your and your fellow escorts' asses from the slimy sleazebags who abuse your trust and generosity. It's great that you are opening the dialog though, and I enjoy your openhearted insight and diplomatic skills.

 

I'll shut up now...

[Boston Guy]

I read your post with interest.

 

Please point to examples of the following in this thread:

 

They continue to put forth this simplistic nonsense that if an escort violates some bullshit professional code of conduct that they made up in their own minds that they should be on the shitlist no matter what the circumstance.

 

Damn I really can't believe there are also regulars here that defending the canard that since the activity occurs outside this country's bullshit moralistic legal boundaries that all expectation of security goes away and it's dog-eat-dog every man for himself.

 

Since I haven't seen anyone state either of those things, I'm quite curious to see what it is that I missed.

 

Thank you.

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

It's a tough nut to crack.

 

I agree. It's something that I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about over the years and have discussed with various escorts in person as well as here in the Message Center. There are difficulties on all sides and many of them are non-trivial. But all of us -- escort and client alike -- should be more than a little concerned about the misuse of our personal data.

 

I do not believe that a blacklist is the right solution. The problem with blacklists is two-fold:

 

1. The use of it not by the good guys out there (i.e., Ryan) but by the unscrupulous, and

2. It's vast potential for misuse beyond its intended purpose.

 

Like most people who have escorted or hired escorts, I assume, I have had security concerns from time to time and try to be quite cautious. I think that's only sensible and recommend it as a basic precaution for anyone. But there are things that we can to do to minimize the likelihood of physical assault and that is, to me at least, the most important concern. The other concern -- the theft of money or services -- is of far less concern because money can be replaced, even if it's extremely aggravating to be the victim of any kind of theft.

 

BG

[raife]

I read your post with interest.

 

Please point to examples of the following in this thread:

 

They continue to put forth this simplistic nonsense that if an escort violates some bullshit professional code of conduct that they made up in their own minds that they should be on the shitlist no matter what the circumstance.

 

Very well, there's:

 

But one thing is certain. I'm unwilling to contribute my time and resources to an escort if he participates in any blacklist. I believe a professional should be a black hole. Nothing about what he does with whom should ever be aggregated on a website, good or bad.

and also your own dictum based on this simplistic total privacy or GTFO viewpoint:

 

That's too bad. I've hired tons of guys from M4RN and I've treated each one of them with respect. But, given this database of reviews, I'll likely no longer hire escorts from M4RN.

Damn I really can't believe there are also regulars here that defending the canard that since the activity occurs outside this country's bullshit moralistic legal boundaries that all expectation of security goes away and it's dog-eat-dog every man for himself.

 

 

Since I haven't seen anyone state either of those things, I'm quite curious to see what it is that I missed.

 

Thank you.

 

BG

The second viewpoint I've seen well represented in this forum by many of the self-loathing conservative prudish types who still feel the need to hypocritically participate in our enjoyment of the world's oldest profession, Ted Haggard style. This statement set me off:

 

Forgetting the Fact that I'm guessing.. most Clients want No PART of anyone knowing that they are PAYING FOR SEX ..IF and When Legalization happens the number of CLIENTS will definitely go down.

 

So I'm thinking the "Working Guys" best stick to the World's Oldest Profession just the way it is..UPS & Downs..Possible Warts and all!

Though I admit that it's not the best representative of its genre.

[Boston Guy]

the relation to any business that has recourse for such wrong doings does not compare to the escorts business where there is none.

 

Respectfully and full of fervent passion

-RyanCade-

 

Ryan,

 

I am not in any way trying to minimize the aggravation you are feeling. However, I think it's often good to try to slice through the emotion and get to the facts of the matter at the bottom of something. A friend used to say "Two heads are better than one, especially when one of the heads isn't angry." I've found that to be the case for myself over the years.

 

With that in mind, I want to talk about the idea that there's no comparison between escorting and other businesses when it comes to having some kind of recourse for being wronged in some way by a client. Let's break it into two categories:

 

1. Physical abuse -- assault, rape, or any other similar kind of crime

2. Theft -- of money or services that were provided but not paid for

 

In the first instance, if an escort is assaulted, he or she needs to decide if they want to involve the police. This will likely involve a weighing of several factors, including the severity of the assault, the jurisdiction in which it occurred and how exactly the escort can identify the client. If a client simply punches an escort, most police agencies aren't going to do too much, I'm afraid, just like they wouldn't likely do too much if someone walks in and said "this guy I know punched me." They may or may not take it seriously.

 

But suppose a client stabs an escort or in some other way assaults them seriously or rapes the escort. If I were an escort and this happened to me, I'd report it to the police immediately. They may or may not take me seriously as an escort but I'd report it and press charges as best I could. And I honestly think that most police departments would take something like that quite seriously. It's analogous to how police departments used to often not take much action when a woman claimed she was raped by her boyfriend but will now take that very seriously indeed.

 

So let's turn to the second problem, the theft of money or services. This puts you back into good company with businesses and service providers of all kinds. Everyone ends up with unscrupulous or dishonest clients from time to time and often there is no real recourse available to you. Suppose a dry-cleaner gets stiffed by someone who grabbed his shirts and ran. What are they going to do? Call the police and say that someone ran and didn't pay the $60 they owed? What are the police going to do? In most cases, nothing. Same thing with most losses that are in the hundreds of dollars or less for most businesses. Why? Because the cost of recovering the loss can easily be more expensive than the amount that was lost. So businesses chalk it up as one of the costs of doing business and move on. It's not worth driving yourself crazy over. If you find that you are an occasional victim of theft, as terribly aggravating as it is, I'd advise you to consider the same kind of policy: chalk it up as a cost of doing business and move on.

 

On the other hand, if you find that it is happening frequently enough to be a real issue, then I'd recommend changing your policies to try to avoid it in the first place. If it were me, I'd analyze my losses vs. my income and, like any business, try to decide what percentage of revenue is an acceptable (if entirely aggravating) level of loss. For example, suppose you decide that you can live with losses that are up to three percent of your gross revenue from escorting. If you charge $300 per hour, that would mean that you're effectively considering $9 of each $300 to be held aside against future losses. So set $9 aside in an account out of every $300. Then, if 97 out of 100 clients don't cheat you, every time someone does cheat you, you can reach into your reserves and pull out the amount you just lost to theft and move on.

 

It's not a solution to an emotional problem but it is one way to deal with a financial problem and it's the way that most businesses actually deal with issues of regular but small theft.

 

BG

[raife]

Actually businesses also report problematic clients to credit reporting agencies as well as maintaining a blacklist of customers (much as you hate that concept) with whom doing business is a net liability. All this rigmarole you offer to buttress this imaginary privacy at any cost trait to be enforced on erotic service providers as a professional courtesy to "in the closet" scammers who don't want their slimy tactics published to the world. I'm at a loss here since I don't at all agree with your premise. An "agree to disagree" moment. I'm sure you value your closet/privacy and you should always check for that ultimate privacy certificate of approval before you hire in the future.

 

This issue is of personal interest to me as a regular escort I'm very close to was screwed over much as Ryan in his heartfelt revelatory stories opening this thread. I was able to assist him in balancing his account with the scammer via a simple reverse directory lookup and a polite phone call (surprise, jackass!), but I looked into just such blacklists to see if there were a method to help protect him in the future. Glad to see one of these is having some success. Maybe I'm too trusting, but I'm always one to go out of my way to repay generosity and kindness, and men who fuck over my favorite people are beneath contempt in my book. As are people who say "they're breaking the law anyway, so they don't deserve any remedies for their plight".

 

Yes I admit I'm straw manning somewhat, you are a great guy and I always appreciate your well reasoned perspective in this forum, but you've caught me in a pants-down emotional hot button moment.

[Boston Guy]

Raife,

 

There are too many levels of quotes to be able to quote and have it make any sense so I will start anew.

 

First, you said "They continue to put forth this simplistic nonsense that if an escort violates some bullshit professional code of conduct that they made up in their own minds that they should be on the shitlist no matter what the circumstance." and then, when I asked for examples, included the following statement made by me: "That's too bad. I've hired tons of guys from M4RN and I've treated each one of them with respect. But, given this database of reviews, I'll likely no longer hire escorts from M4RN." Please tell me exactly how my statement that I would reconsider using a particular website translates into saying that one escort or another should be "on the shitlist". I think you are reading what you want to hear into what I wrote.

 

I'll go farther: if I told a client that I knew for certain that escorts on a particular escort website were going to record his phone number, email address, additional email addresses, and some level of information about their interaction, I'd expect a reasonable client to express reasonable concern over that. I'd think that someone who didn't give it some serious level of consideration to be naive. But that has nothing at all to do with saying that an escort "should be on a shitlist". In fact, if there were someone who was on M4RN who I wanted to hire and I found them also on another website that I felt better about, I would simply contact them through the other website. It's not the escorts that I'd be expressing my opinion of by avoiding them but M4RN itself.

 

Then you said "Damn I really can't believe there are also regulars here that defending the canard that since the activity occurs outside this country's bullshit moralistic legal boundaries that all expectation of security goes away and it's dog-eat-dog every man for himself.". This one really concerned me because I most certainly don't think that this is a "dog-eat-dog, every man for himself" situation. In fact, in an earlier post, I said that we do better when we work together, rather than viewing all of this as an antagonistic type of battle.

 

The statement that you said set you off was this:

 

Forgetting the Fact that I'm guessing.. most Clients want No PART of anyone knowing that they are PAYING FOR SEX ..IF and When Legalization happens the number of CLIENTS will definitely go down. So I'm thinking the "Working Guys" best stick to the World's Oldest Profession just the way it is..UPS & Downs..Possible Warts and all!

I don't interpret this in any way to mean that this author thinks that "all expectations of security go away and it's dog-eat-dog, every man for himself." Instead, I interpreted his statement to mean that he felt that escorts are better off on balance with the situation as it exists today, even with the ups and downs associated with escorting, than it might be in the future after possible changes brought about by legalization.

 

The subject of this thread is very emotional and very complex. I'd suggest that each person here, if they think someone else has made some outrageous statement, take a moment to ask that person if that's what they meant. It's too easy to misinterpret what someone wrote and take from it meaning that the author never, ever intended.

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

Yes I admit I'm straw manning somewhat, you are a great guy and I always appreciate your well reasoned perspective in this forum, but you've caught me in a pants-down emotional hot button moment.

 

I don't like it when my friends are mistreated, either. We don't agree on some of the specifics here but we do agree that we should all be concerned with the safety and security of escorts and, I'd add, each other.

 

Thanks. I didn't take any of your statements personally and I've appreciated reading your concerns. Your feelings for the needs and rights of the escorts speaks volumes about your character.

 

BG

[+ deej]

I agree. It's something that I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about over the years and have discussed with various escorts in person as well as here in the Message Center. There are difficulties on all sides and many of them are non-trivial. But all of us -- escort and client alike -- should be more than a little concerned about the misuse of our personal data.

 

A couple of thoughts here. You are presenting yourself as the only person who has put any thought into this issue. You're not the only one. It's borderline insulting.

 

As for personal data, this is an area of some expertise for me. A phone number or an email address is not, necessarily, personally identifiable information. I can have a fake/temporary phone number or email address with a few clicks. We see clients suggesting this tactic here in this forum all the time (not by me, FWIW). These temporary contact methods are ultimately traceable to you via subpoena, but a casual snoop won't find much about you on the Google machine.

 

I do not believe that a blacklist is the right solution.

 

It's debatable. A public blacklist is absolutely a wrong approach. However, as described by Ryan, a listing of clients known to cause problems accessible only to the escorts that those clients may be contacting seems a reasonable approach. Nobody is giving away your dick size or home address.

 

I do have a big problem with encouraging, even supporting, the ripoff clients who make every escort wary of seeing YOU or ME. That is a strategy that cannot work in a client's favor.

[Boston Guy]

Deej, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was the only person who has put any thought into this issue, for I certainly didn't intend that. What I said was that it's something that I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about over the years and have discussed with various escorts in person as well as in the Message Center. I did not say, nor did I mean to imply, that others have not also thought about this issue. I'm sorry if you felt insulted.

 

I agree on all of your other points, including that the subject is debatable. However, as I pointed out in an earlier thread, these kinds of databases seldom shrink and often grow as providers decide to add one new feature after another. One can easily see an instance in which a client who normally uses a throw-away phone forgets and uses his regular phone number and all of a sudden his set of historical information points directly to him. What might seem today like a "well, it's not too, too bad" solution could easily morph relatively rapidly into something that truly is a threat to clients, through accidental disclosure and through malicious misuse of the information. That's where my concern truly lies -- with the future and where such a blacklist that looks innocent now might end up down the road.

 

BG

[raife]

Thanks for your clarifications, as you say this is a difficult and emotional topic, the statement I quoted from you did not concern me as much as the "good or bad" aspect of the prior quote. Interpretations are very much central here, and miscommunication is rife in any text based discussions. I find myself reacting emotionally to what should be just an expression of preference, you're completely entitled to yours. Woodlawn is no longer around *deep breath of relief...* so the dander-raising is an overreaction. I humbly step down off my high horse and concede simple difference of opinion.

 

I sometimes take a devil's advocate position to enliven the discussion and view the issues from all angles, but that's not the case here. I just see escorts getting short shrift when taking basic steps to protect themselves, and I want to see them have every opportunity to do so. If a website can help with that, I'm all for it. I see there are any number of possibilities for abuse, much as with the problematic but still useful credit reporting system we have here in the US. But every participant has to use all the tools available to try and insure that they won't be scammed, entrapped, or saddled with an unworkable situation.

 

I'm certainly not going to feel personally threatened if an escort tells me he's reported a rip-off artist's phone number and e-mail to a website, and I don't take that as an indicator that he'll be less than protective of my own information. I use separate escort correspondence e-mail IDs and Google Voice phone number anyway (after a dicey experience with a meth-crazed stalker), and I don't pay via CC or PayPal, cash only, so there are no real privacy concerns from my perspective. Once I gain a strong trust relationship with a regular, I'm free and trusting with my real info and it's almost always been reciprocal so I have no privacy worries, I see it as a non-issue. I do have closeted friends who hire, I described this topic and its various angles to a couple of them and they were not at all concerned either, so I think this is mostly a tempest in a teapot. An interesting discussion to have, a point of clarification.

 

Kudos to both Ryan and yourself for a topic well explored, and on to merrier subjects of interest...

[Boston Guy]

It sounds like we are similar in how we trust escorts (and, most likely, other people) who we've gotten to know.

 

Ah, Woodlawn... those were the days. :D

 

Good night to you!

BG

[Guest RyanCade]

You know BG all of this makes sense if you are running a regular business, what we are talking about here is bad people do bad things and hiding behind the strict confidentiality clause. I don't want to be able to call the police, sue, prosicute or anything of that nature, THAT would take up too much time and cost more than it's worth. HOWEVER I do want my fellow professionals to know ahead of time that walking into that situation might not be a good idea. The same as you all warn each other about the a** h**** calling themselves escorts.

[Leap Year]

Ryan,

I find it funny that you say "all of this makes sense if you are running a regular business" when virtually everything you have said in this thread implies that you think you should be treated as a "regular business" but are not. Face it, escorting is not a regular business. While I am not advocating mistreating anyone, I am saying that you should enter this business knowing the ups and downs. The examples that you have given of being ripped off do not sound like "abuse" to me. They sound like you have been ripped off. This happens in every form of business on earth and is a cost of doing business. However, escorting, like it or not, is illegal in virtually all of the US. As such, clients hire expecting confidentiality. Any client review system is contrary to the "contract" between the client and the escort. Clients don't want anything about themselves posted or shared with anyone. I doubt there are many that would hire you if you told them, " oh, by the way, I may be reviewing you on a website". You can say that the info is only used when you want to alert other escorts, but it still is disclosing client info. And, where are the safeguards that protect and innocent client? He likely doesn't even know that he has been reviewed. Any escort could make up anything they wanted... "ugh, he was fat, ugly and old so I'll give him a bad review". Don't try to tell me that wouldn't happen. Of course it would! I am totally disillusioned now knowing that this is part of Daddy's. Where was/is the disclosure Daddy?

[Leap Year]

BG has corrected me. The client review feature is not part of Daddy's but another site. My apologies to Daddy.

[Guest socal30]

Well, I guess the concern is privacy. I think someone on this site linked to a blacklist site pretty recently. It was a public blacklist site for gay escorts/masseurs and the amount of detail was scary. It had phone numbers/email address and even street address in some cases. This was a public site with free access to anyone. That is what is scary. But it not being legal and all is what make clients jittery-it can affect them in many ways, especially the ones who like their privacy.

[Guest RyanCade]

Ryan,

I find it funny that you say "all of this makes sense if you are running a regular business" when virtually everything you have said in this thread implies that you think you should be treated as a "regular business" but are not. Face it, escorting is not a regular business. While I am not advocating mistreating anyone, I am saying that you should enter this business knowing the ups and downs. The examples that you have given of being ripped off do not sound like "abuse" to me. They sound like you have been ripped off. This happens in every form of business on earth and is a cost of doing business. However, escorting, like it or not, is illegal in virtually all of the US. As such, clients hire expecting confidentiality. Any client review system is contrary to the "contract" between the client and the escort. Clients don't want anything about themselves posted or shared with anyone. I doubt there are many that would hire you if you told them, " oh, by the way, I may be reviewing you on a website". You can say that the info is only used when you want to alert other escorts, but it still is disclosing client info. And, where are the safeguards that protect and innocent client? He likely doesn't even know that he has been reviewed. Any escort could make up anything they wanted... "ugh, he was fat, ugly and old so I'll give him a bad review". Don't try to tell me that wouldn't happen. Of course it would! I am totally disillusioned now knowing that this is part of Daddy's. Where was/is the disclosure Daddy?

 

If you read the entire thread you would find several other points you missed as well. (Did you read it or skim pulling out the words "Escort" "client review" "Daddys"?) such as the escort has to ALREADY posses the client info, it doesn't disclose anything. Threatening me with a bad review in order to rip me off is abuse. pushing the time and demanding services you have no intention of paying for also abuse, threatening to defame a man because you stood him up and now he won't see you, ahain abuse I am in the business of entertaining men and that is all my job requires, I AM NOT required to tolerate rude, abusive, and heartless jerks. Client confidentiality is not in danger here. THE EXPOSURE OF BAD PEOPLE IS and by the way, I have not seen one good review, It doesn't benefit the client or me to write good reviews. It amazes me how many of you skip right past the facts and go on and on about an issue that is not in question here. and I don't want it to be treated like any other business. I want the safety and security of escorts to be treated as important as that of the clients. Many say they care for us. but in the next breath explain how it's part of the job and if you want business you'll tip toe around and keep your bad experiences to yourself. cause talking about them makes you less trust worthy and less desirable. I have talked with several clients today and they are not at all worried about it, they treat their escorts very well. and have no reason to. I will be happy to continue serving my market, Lots of folks are very angry, some frustrated and others are calling to book appointments and be added to my email list. To each his own. I have said this before, What others think of who I am, doesn't change who I am. and if I am ok with me, it's not much of my concern. Respectfully -RyanCade_

[orbital sander]

Now wait a minute, joseph just said he DID on a much larger scale what I am defending our right to do. Whats the difference, is it because he was maced and kicked? What is the difference? orbital sander, I have no doubt that people rip many people off in different ways. If you chose to do so you could file a law suit against your shameful clients as well as report their debt to the credit agencies to warn other potential creditors. again where is the recourse and protection for escorts?

 

Ryan,

 

My Response to Joseph was one of concern for someone who I admire, and have felt like I have gotten to know better from his video reviews and kind words and ideas on this Forum for several years. I do not know you, and most of your posts have sounded pretty tense and frustrated. I have no interest in arguing with you. I stand firmly by my original position.

 

My response to all of this is I am done here. The dead horse has been beaten beyond reason.

 

I hope you find peace and prosperity.

[adriano46]

I had been away for a few days and am playing catch-up here with some threads, and I was intrigued by the two posted recently by Ryan Cade.

 

I honestly never heard of Ryan Cade (no offense to you, Ryan, as you look like a type I like ;-) -- perhaps because we are not in the same city. I read both of his first postings and thought they were clear and well presented and articulated, and each of his "themes" has been - at one time or another - discussed in great detail here (I have been on this site for over 15 years or more -- memory moment -- under various names contributing...)

 

TRUST is a very difficult yet necessary commodity in the escort-client relationship, and often TRUST is the one part of the equation that can cause some serious problems.

 

As a discreet and closeted client, I TRUST that when I meet an escort, he will not pry into my background, nor betray my discretion. This is a tall order in many ways (often in the real world, such trust takes time, and never is done standing naked in front of each other after meeting 10 minutes earlier!!!).

 

On my part, I enter each encounter with an escort with RESPECT for him, respect for the TRUST he shows in meeting me, and understanding that our mutual TRUST will not be used to hurt each other or in some way (especiall professionally) harm each other. I always discuss boundaries before we meet, to set up the boundaries of this TRUST. Also, I generally refrain from writing a negative review, often chalking it up to bad chemistry between us, or knowing any escort can have a bad day. I never review a guy (on the rare times I write a review) without asking him first if it is OK with him. On the escort's side, I prefer that once we finish the encounter, the encounter is OVER (and so no bad feelings if I do not call again, or attempts to contact me later to get me to meet again). I have been burned in the past when the business side of this became personal, and so now I protect myself and try to avoid multiple encounters with the same guy (which is problematic when the encounter is great). I am open to exceptions, but my radar antennae are up when the escort is pushing me to meet again.

 

I was once verbally crudely attacked here on the board when I dared question how WONDERFUL one escort was who had/has a huge fan base. It taught me a lesson on the rules here (this goes back a long time, so hopefully Deej, Daddy etc... won't take this as a criticism... it was literally a decade ago).

 

And in all these years only one escort threatened to OUT me if I did not pay him money. I never paid, lived in fear for a few years, and since, assume he is no longer escorting. A few escorts (in Europe) have become sort of leeches on my generous nature, but I have learned in these hard economic times to refrain from opening my wallet. If half the escorts I gave "loans" to over the years would pay up, I could take a very nice vacation for two months to some exotic location, probably affording a few dozen guys along the way...

 

Again...issues of TRUST.

 

In all this, while these threads can be tedious at times, it is not a bad idea for both sides (clients and escorts) to occasionally take reflective time to listen to each other's side - listen to the expectations, to the fears, to the realities each side faces, and most importantly, learn to again respect each side. This is one of the great values of this site, and something that keeps me checking in week after week. In a way, we are all "right" here, and we all have issues that need to be laid out in the open, and Ryan, you are doing us all a favor with these two threads, at least getting many of us to think a bit, reflect, and see another side to all this. (On the record.... I hate blacklisting too, and am no fan of private reviews we clients are unaware of).

[billhu]

Come on up to NYC and I'll treat you fine. No one needs to go through such episodes but for everyone you had I did too, not every escort cares as you seem to. Bill

[Guest mvan1]

 

I had been away for a few days and am playing catch-up here with some threads, and I was intrigued by the two posted recently by Ryan Cade.

 

I honestly never heard of Ryan Cade (no offense to you, Ryan, as you look like a type I like ;-) -- perhaps because we are not in the same city. I read both of his first postings and thought they were clear and well presented and articulated, and each of his "themes" has been - at one time or another - discussed in great detail here (I have been on this site for over 15 years or more -- memory moment -- under various names contributing...)

 

TRUST is a very difficult yet necessary commodity in the escort-client relationship, and often TRUST is the one part of the equation that can cause some serious problems.

 

As a discreet and closeted client, I TRUST that when I meet an escort, he will not pry into my background, nor betray my discretion. This is a tall order in many ways (often in the real world, such trust takes time, and never is done standing naked in front of each other after meeting 10 minutes earlier!!!).

 

On my part, I enter each encounter with an escort with RESPECT for him, respect for the TRUST he shows in meeting me, and understanding that our mutual TRUST will not be used to hurt each other or in some way (especiall professionally) harm each other. I always discuss boundaries before we meet, to set up the boundaries of this TRUST. Also, I generally refrain from writing a negative review, often chalking it up to bad chemistry between us, or knowing any escort can have a bad day. I never review a guy (on the rare times I write a review) without asking him first if it is OK with him. On the escort's side, I prefer that once we finish the encounter, the encounter is OVER (and so no bad feelings if I do not call again, or attempts to contact me later to get me to meet again). I have been burned in the past when the business side of this became personal, and so now I protect myself and try to avoid multiple encounters with the same guy (which is problematic when the encounter is great). I am open to exceptions, but my radar antennae are up when the escort is pushing me to meet again.

 

I was once verbally crudely attacked here on the board when I dared question how WONDERFUL one escort was who had/has a huge fan base. It taught me a lesson on the rules here (this goes back a long time, so hopefully Deej, Daddy etc... won't take this as a criticism... it was literally a decade ago).

 

And in all these years only one escort threatened to OUT me if I did not pay him money. I never paid, lived in fear for a few years, and since, assume he is no longer escorting. A few escorts (in Europe) have become sort of leeches on my generous nature, but I have learned in these hard economic times to refrain from opening my wallet. If half the escorts I gave "loans" to over the years would pay up, I could take a very nice vacation for two months to some exotic location, probably affording a few dozen guys along the way...

 

Again...issues of TRUST.

 

In all this, while these threads can be tedious at times, it is not a bad idea for both sides (clients and escorts) to occasionally take reflective time to listen to each other's side - listen to the expectations, to the fears, to the realities each side faces, and most importantly, learn to again respect each side. This is one of the great values of this site, and something that keeps me checking in week after week. In a way, we are all "right" here, and we all have issues that need to be laid out in the open, and Ryan, you are doing us all a favor with these two threads, at least getting many of us to think a bit, reflect, and see another side to all this. (On the record.... I hate blacklisting too, and am no fan of private reviews we clients are unaware of).

 

 

This post is unquestionably the most thought out and logical approach to the issue of client privacy. I heartily applaud you for your splendid contribution.

 

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