TMBG, Jizzhead et al, these hustlers are prey, you are predators

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

the purpose of this thread...

 

>>Well, I don't know about you but to me the primary purpose

>>of this and every other thread I choose to chime in on - IS

>>TO AMUSE MYSELF.

>>

>

>Frankly, I can't say I found anything in this thread the

>least bit funny. No, what I read was a grim reminder that

>some, if not most, escorts have nothing but contempt for

>their clients.

 

 

I find less amusement value in this particular thread then in some other ones. This particular thread has been very mean spirited on certain levels, but there has also been some enlightening discussion and thought.

 

Finally, it is also disheartening o hear some of the discussion herein.

 

A prostitute is a whore. They are perfectly fine words but since again, this culture and society assign a negative value to them, as they do to the words "bottom" or "slut" -- thereby the words become pejorative. I can be a prostitute or whore. I find no shame in the words. I tend to be an escort or a companion. I make dinner for my clients, I go out with them to all sorts of events. I pick up theater tickets for them before they come into town - even if one ticket is not for me - suggest hotel rooms, recommend restaurants. When I am not the kind of escort they are looking for, I still often recommend places to go, hotels to try, etc. I also recommend and refer them to other escorts who might be more to their liking.

 

I believe these are the qualitative differences between an escort and a street hustler.

 

If you have any doubts about the person you might consider spending time with, I would suggest you ask them to meet you for coffee or speak with you on the telephone first for a while to make yourself comfortable. If the escort was not willing to do so, I would suggest you keep trying.

 

I have no contempt for my clients and I cannot think of a single friend of mine who is in the business or retired from it - from the 21 year old escort I had lunch with today to the 36 year old friend in New York City I have been instant messenging as I type these posts - who does so. It is both sad and regrettable that you have received such impressions and I would suggest you look in other posts within this message center before you completely close yourself to the possibility.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Too true

 

Post 44 and 45 herein and the original thread of TMBG in the Message Center as well.

 

 

Love is no substitute for sex.

 

http://photos.yahoo.com/franco4hire

[Guest Ant415]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

Charon makes a some great points, and quite eloquently (not that you need my validation). Seems Rod is a bit too close to this issue to discuss in a constructive manner.

 

Rod, you are the one that seems too quick to mouth off, and "dim". Have you been hanging out with Ethan?

 

To the "don't exploit 19yo escort camp":

So that I can be clear... What age is a young man no longer not ripe enough, not too young, not exploited? 21-25-28?

 

And at what price point does one cease being an exploited street urchin hustler, and become an escort? $100-150-300?

[Guest Ant415]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

I think what Reg posted makes more sense than anything I have read on this board so far.

 

Think we can assume the 19yo set his rate at $40. I don't think (no proof -- just my feeling)this rate was the product of bickering between the escort and Ritchie. The kid wrote his own ticket.

 

Here is a thought. Someone above mentioned there are many kids out on the street, desparate, and will have sex for a relatively low fee. Thus, the reason for the low rate is simple economics in a capitalist setting. Lots of guys on the streets = high levels of supply, thus downward pressure on the price. The demand for street boys is somewhat static, so with increased supply, price levels must fall.

 

So... the other 19yo guys on the street are party to this exploitation (the oppressed will oppress). So let's start rouding up some of the other street urchins and charge them with the crimes levied upon Ritchie.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: In my little corner of the world

 

>As it stands, I am in full

>agreement with the point that to remark upon one's good

>fortune and luck to find a young man, of clearly limited

>means, taking public transit over 30 minutes to get home, to

>use him and double his minor fee to assauge whatever moral

>qualms one might have about the situation AND then to remark

>upon it in public as a good thing is well within Rod's free

>speech perogative to question and critique. I join in that.

 

Spoken like a well paid, high priced hooker.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: Rod's Post

 

>I can make the choices that I make, with intelligence, a

>clear concious and an awareness of the consequences. No all

>of us can say that.

 

Why? Because of your superior intellect?

>

>Finally, the age issue is a non-starter. Chris Sullivan is

>a good friend of mine, he is 21. He enjoys having sex with

>older men and he enjoys having sex with younger men. He

>enjoys getting paid for it and he enjoys sex period

 

And this impacts upon this discussion, how?

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: Amusing but sadly true

 

"champing at the bait ...

>literally and figuratively."

 

Perhaps you meant, "Chomping at the bit"?;-)

 

JEFF

[email protected]

[Flower]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

IT'S THE POWER ADVANTAGE--NOT AGE OR MONEY!

 

>To the "don't exploit 19yo escort camp":

>So that I can be clear... What age is a young man no

>longer not ripe enough, not too young, not exploited?

>21-25-28?

>

>And at what price point does one cease being an exploited

>street urchin hustler, and become an escort? $100-150-300?

 

You obviously miss the entire point--it's not age based necessarily nor is it fee based--an 18 yo who was in a decent bargaining position and fairly healthy emotionally, could negotiate any fee he desired--large or small and not be exploited.

 

The exploitation comes with the uneven bargaining power--the Richie Riches picking on young, down and out bois--or sometimes, visa versa--there are certainly escorts that exploit the emotional neediness of their clients--it's a 2 way street, but the exploitation--as any exploitation--comes from an imbalance in the parties' relative bargaining power--whether it be mental, emotional or financial.

The mental and emotional part is SOMETIMES a lot harder to identify, so this heated argument centers over very youn age, poverty and homelessness--those are easy, no-brainer criteria to use in exploitation and I'm sure those factors and the ease with which the enpoverished, homeless, hungary "street urchin" was able to be hustled does not escape the likes of Richie Rich--notice here it was Richie Rich doing the hustling--and then didn't have the gumption to insist on driving him back to where he found him, but let him take the bus or walk--DISPOSABLE BOIS I guess.

 

To further answer your question, however, a 30 or 40 year old escort could just as well be exploited as could his same age or older client--it is not age dependent--it is POWER DEPENDENT--who holds all the cards. Where one party holds all of the cards, it is possible for there to be exploitation at any price--it is not price dependent either--IT IS SITUATION DEPENDENT, and every situation needs to be judged on it's own merits And this is not always easy to do nor practical when your hard-on is doing the thinking--but there are certain factors--very young, hungary, dirty, homeless, desperate--that are no brainers and any idiot recognizes it as exploitation and hard-on be damned, forget it--but then to publicly brag about it makes the actions incredulous. x(

 

A few things that are indicative of a more balanced negotiating power with very young escorts are whether or not a younger escort is going to college (not High School Richie) and if he has another job--does he have something else going for him in life that would indicate that this is supplemental rather than life sustaining, and he is on better footing to negotiate--the power is evened out to some extent--maybe.

 

Flower :*

[Rod Hagen]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>And you called ME stupid? Stupid I may be but not stupid

>enough to recognize a lie when I read one!

 

No escorts are moderators. It would be a conflict of interest. Either you're too dumb to know that OR you meant to imply that I wasn't allowed into the "Escorts Only" forum where in fact I was one of the very first.

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

My understanding of the "change" from whore to escort was actually more of an issue regarding the "clients" not feeling good about the term hooker or whore. So if we want to go back to what it really is, then lets go back to the Old troll that cant get anything else so has to pay for it and i will go back to being a street hooker or whore for the troll.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>>And you called ME stupid? Stupid I may be but not stupid

>>enough to recognize a lie when I read one!

>

>No escorts are moderators. It would be a conflict of

>interest. Either you're too dumb to know that OR you meant

>to imply that I wasn't allowed into the "Escorts Only" forum

>where in fact I was one of the very first.

 

Who the hell ever said escorts were moderators - I SURE DIDN'T but I guess your reading skills are too poor to understand what poor dumb me was trying to say. Either that or you have "selective" comprehension skills.

 

And if you were one of the first escorts in the escort's forum - how come you ain't there now? Huh? Were you a naughty boy? Or just a plain old pain in the ass?

 

Thunderbuns

[guyinsf]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

What? You don't believe that all of those reviews written by young and in shape guys are real? ;-)

 

I may be out of shape but I'm too young to be a troll. I can and do get sex other ways, too.

 

It's amazing to me how many escorts are willing to make themselves look bad on threads like this, even to the extent of insulting potential clients. As a client and not an escort, what I type will have no bearing on my income. I still try to be civil, however, even when I vehemently disagree with someone. An escort, however, can lose business by becoming overly argumentative or insulting here. I have to say that there are a few escorts I've seen on here over the past two years whom I initially intended to hire when I got to their cities but have since ruled out due to their personalities as expressed here. In other cases, some escorts become more appealing due to what they contribute here.

 

Not that any escort has asked for my advice, but I would suggest that you look at whether you really want to participate on this board, in the way that you are. Obviously you're free to make whatever decision you want. I know that sometimes I start to type a response and then decide that what I was going to contribute wasn't necessary or helpful.

[guyinsf]

RE: the purpose of this thread...

 

Oh my gawd! The word "bottom" is now pejorative?! How am I supposed to introduce myself now? }>

[Guest bmore guy]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

I have been reading this thread and related threads with much interest as this subject is on I have wrestled with. I do have some guilt for picking up these "street urchins". To ease my guilt I try to respect these guys and their limits.

 

In reading this particular thread, I have one question to ask -Rod Hagan, who the hell are you?Yes, I may be a "chickenhawk" and a "predator" but you are a "whore" and a "slut". There is no room here for namecalling and moral judgements.You, however, are way off base.

 

First off, when is a 19 year old innocent. I challenge you to find a high school boy who is sexually naive. Good luck. And with the circumstances most of these guys grew up in, their innocence was gone long before puberty. These guys are just as likely to be the predators as the prey.

 

As far as the rates go, they are set by the guys. Some guys will go out for less, some demand a little more. I am certain that guy was ecstatic with his $80. Some of these guys this is there sole income, others are supplementing low paying jobs. Some make as much hustling a couple nights at $40 a clip as they do all week at their regular job.

 

You say these guys lives would be better if I didn't pick them up. What do you know? I have fed these guys, clothed them, sheltered them( in the spare bedroom)and have gotten them in drug programs. Who are you to judge me?

 

In fact, Mr. Well-Off Escort, you freely admit to not giving to charity. I have no doubt that you are one of the many who look at the less fortunate with utter contempt. You want to help out-find a good charity or better yet, be a mentor. Otherwise, shut up.

 

Lets face it, the prostitute and the john use each other. The best we can hope for is that we respect each other.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>Who the hell ever said escorts were moderators - I SURE

>DIDN'T but I guess your reading skills are too poor to

>understand what poor dumb me was trying to say. Either that

>or you have "selective" comprehension skills.

 

You are absolutely retarded. First you said that I wasn't allowed in any forums. I said that's not true (I didn't consider the moderators forum to be relevant since NO ESCORTS are allowed in the moderator's forum). Just to make things confusing DEEJ chimmed in and said that I'm not allowed into the Moderators' Forum, which is true, but not what you were most likely refering to. So, no I am NOT part of the Moderators' forum, NO ESCORTS ARE. And yes, you idiot. I AM still allowed in the Escort's Forum, and as far as the moderators are concerned I, though obnoxious as hell, am one of the most trust worthy. I've proven so time and time again.

 

Now pretend you don't understand that paragraph, I dare you, you dumb fuck.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>I have been reading this thread and related threads with

>much interest as this subject is on I have wrestled with. I

>do have some guilt for picking up these "street urchins".

>To ease my guilt I try to respect these guys and their

>limits.

 

And has this thread helped?

 

 

>

>In reading this particular thread, I have one question to

>ask -Rod Hagan, who the hell are you?Yes, I may be a

>"chickenhawk" and a "predator" but you are a "whore" and a

>"slut". There is no room here for namecalling and moral

>judgements.You, however, are way off base.

 

Yes, I am a whore. I've never claimed otherwise. And even though I am a whore, I can still offer reasonable opinions, regardless of wether or not they make you feel uncomfortable.

 

>

>First off, when is a 19 year old innocent. I challenge you

>to find a high school boy who is sexually naive. Good luck.

> And with the circumstances most of these guys grew up in,

>their innocence was gone long before puberty. These guys are

>just as likely to be the predators as the prey.

 

I may not be representative of all 19 year olds, however, personally, I did not even kiss another person intimately until I was 25 years old. One year later I started this profession.

 

>

>As far as the rates go, they are set by the guys. Some guys

>will go out for less, some demand a little more. I am

>certain that guy was ecstatic with his $80.

 

Keep telling yourself that. And when they give $55 of it to the hotel manager where they live, are they happy about having the change left over for a bag of chips, and a subway sandwich?

 

 

>Some of these

>guys this is there sole income, others are supplementing low

>paying jobs. Some make as much hustling a couple nights at

>$40 a clip as they do all week at their regular job.

 

And it's reasonable to assume that most of them are unable to get or keep a dayJob.

 

>

>You say these guys lives would be better if I didn't pick

>them up. What do you know? I have fed these guys, clothed

>them, sheltered them( in the spare bedroom)and have gotten

>them in drug programs.

 

I never said that. I did say that taking advantage of the fiscal desperation of others is a pretty fucked up thing to do.

 

>Who are you to judge me?

 

Your better.

 

>In fact, Mr. Well-Off Escort, you freely admit to not giving

>to charity. I have no doubt that you are one of the many who

>look at the less fortunate with utter contempt.

 

If I look at the those who make less than me with utter contempt, why did I start a thread lambasting others for giving to little for too much? Think, before you type.

 

>You want to

>help out-find a good charity or better yet, be a mentor.

>Otherwise, shut up.

 

No.

 

>

>Lets face it, the prostitute and the john use each other.

>The best we can hope for is that we respect each other.

 

How is it respectful to take advantage of the financial desperation of others?

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

Ah that was my point exactly, It amazes me when the clients have their say on this board, slamming, demeaning, and sometimes just out and out rude this is ok behavior. But lord have mercy if a hooker dare view his distaste in the way a perticular thread is going, We jeapordize our job, career ect because you cant see that it was just a comment in retort to your insensitive remark to me

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>Now pretend you don't understand that paragraph, I dare you,

>you dumb fuck.

 

Honey - I just love it when you talk dirty to me.

 

We sure know how to push your buttons, don't we?

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>In fact, Mr. Well-Off Escort, you freely admit to not giving

>to charity. I have no doubt that you are one of the many who

>look at the less fortunate with utter contempt. You want to

>help out-find a good charity or better yet, be a mentor.

>Otherwise, shut up.

 

Hey bmore guy - you're wasting your time trying to get through to idiot Hagan. When words fail him (whihc happens with disgusting regularity) he reverts to calling people dumb fucks. He is too thick to realise the only dumb fuck is himself.

 

You probably would have more success getting O.J. to admit to the murders, than to try and get R.H. to admit any view other than his could have any validity whatsoever.

 

All you can do is keep on pushing his buttons and giggle when you watch him explode all over the screen again and again!

 

Thunderbuns

[Uncle Bill]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

First of all, I find all of the "slamming, demeaning, and sometimes just out and out rude" comments/behavior on this board to be highly childish and annoying. Regardless of whether it's from the client or the escort (or whatever other labels that we want to use for those two parties), it is inappropriate. Spirited discussion is one thing. Most of the messages on this thread and several others are just juvenile in their phrasing, which distracts from what otherwise might be valuable comments for all to consider.

 

Now that I have opened up myself for attack as a prude or whatever for posting that comment, I'll broaden the target by making another comment:

 

Like it or not, IMHO, the observation that guyinsf is making is true regarding how the majority of clients most likely view the postings by escorts on this board. Escort postings, whether they initiate a thread or respond to one, are a source of information that clients who view this board will use in determining where to direct future business. How an escort handles himself here is in many ways no different than how he responds to an unfavorable or misleading review -- tact, class and civility usually win out. That is in no way an excuse for rude/insulting postings by clients. However, while escorts can also use the information in those posts to decide which clients they want to turn down, the escorts are really at a disadvantage since the damage will tend to be greater to the escort's business than to the client's opportunity to find someone suitable.

 

For my part, reading many posts in the last couple weeks has taken a number of escorts off my own list -- either because of their rudeness or their distain for my preferences/lifestyle (I don't pick up guys off the street, but I do like very-young-but-legal guys from time to time and don't mind a bargain since the escort sets the price for me -- although I usually tip enough to bring the fee up to "market"; plus, I'm married and have few qualms about my extracurricular activities due to circumstances that I won't go into since I'll no doubt just be attacked even more for trying to explain them).

 

In closing, I often find this board to be fun and informative, but the extreme BS that comes from some of the contributors (both clients and escorts) is truly unappealing.

[Guest regulation]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>Hey bmore guy - you're wasting your time trying to get

>through to idiot Hagan. When words fail him (whihc happens

>with disgusting regularity) he reverts to calling people

>dumb fucks. He is too thick to realise the only dumb fuck is

>himself.

 

Both Rod and I have been participating in this board since long before you appeared. I've never seen a situation in which words failed him. On the contrary, his posts are generally much better organized and better reasoned than yours are. The ones in this thread are no exception to that general rule.

 

Please don't take this to mean that I want you to stop posting. The topsy-turvy values you and others express on this board are an endless source of amusement for me. Where else could I find people who insult someone for protesting the exploitation of street kids or who applaud a man for cheating on his wife? Please stay just as absurd as you are.

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

The only thing I ask in making your judgement calls as to whether you feel someone is "hireable" or not is to view the whole context of the message and not one reply. I dont really care if anyone approves or disapproves of me standing up for my own rights and dignity that are challanged here just about every day. It seems to be the trend when validating a statement to use terms such as whore, hooker, hustler ect. However when someone on this side of the field says no, we get punished for it by the "real" clients by taking their business away. Lets be fair, people like the ones posting here in such a derogatory way I feel are just as much reason for letting me know as to who I want as a client or not just as much as you sit here and judge my charactor as to how i respond. I have said this many times here and I will say it again, respect is a two way street. You cannot expect me to sit here and keep my mouth shut because someone wants to validate their self loathing by putting me down.

 

Please understand I do not in any way feel the way these do, I only make the statement for a reality check. I have many individuals who will verify my sincerity and respect towards them as a person regardless of the exchange of money

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

Lets be fair, people like the

>ones posting here in such a derogatory way I feel are just

>as much reason for letting me know as to who I want as a

>client or not

 

What you say is perfectly logical - however it does have one obvious flaw. Clients will always know who the escorts are as they usually "work" under the same names as they use to post here. However clients who post under the various & sundry names that we see here, will never use that name when they contact you for a session. So how will you know they are the little shit who was insulting to escorts?

 

Trust me on this - I won't be emailing any of you saying high there big boy, it's Thunderbuns here ;-)

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al,

 

>Both Rod and I have been participating in this board since

>long before you appeared.

 

Is it your advanced age that gives you the feeling of superiority or is it just that you KNOW you are so much more intelligent than the rest of us?

 

>On the contrary, his posts are

>generally much better organized and better reasoned than

>yours are. The ones in this thread are no exception to that

>general rule.

 

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

>Please don't take this to mean that I want you to stop

>posting.

 

How gracious of you.

 

>The topsy-turvy values you and others express on

>this board are an endless source of amusement for me.

 

Glad to hear that I have SOME use.

 

>Where else could I find people who insult someone for protesting

>the exploitation of street kids or who applaud a man for

>cheating on his wife?

 

Confusion does reign. I never insulted anyone for protesting the exploitation of street kids. My whole point was that I did not believe Richie exploited the kid. I still feel that $80 an hour does not suck as a going wage.

 

Nor did I ever applaud a man for cheating on his wife. If you were half as good as you think you are at "researching" previous posts, this would have been evident to you. Frankly, your smugness is an endless source of amusement for me!

 

>Please stay just as absurd as you are.

 

For you honey, anything - well, almost anything.

 

Thunderbuns

[Rod Hagen]

RE: TMBG, Jizzhead et al

 

>Trust me on this - I won't be emailing any of you saying

>high there big boy, it's Thunderbuns here ;-)

 

Now I can sleep peacefully on this morning's flight to NYC.