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The Catholic Church and clerical sexuality


Boston Guy
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I know a lot of celibate priests. The vast majority are completely conscious of their choices, and while they are often lonely and occasionally develop friendships that go beyond lunch and golf, are healthy and happy in their work and vocation.

 

That said, there is definitely a pathology of the lonely, isolated priest who finds young people responding to him. It is difficult for some men to resist the adolescent needs for affection which they meet, and these needs often turn to physical expression.

 

Loneliness is not an excuse -- it is an explanation. These guys would be much better off if they would come face to face with the reality of their vocational choice and accept it with full knowledge of its difficulties -- the mature choice -- or leave if they are not prepared to face it.

 

Is mandatory celibacy a wise decision on the part of the Roman Catholic church? No. It is at base an economic decision. How much more expensive it would be for the RC church to pay a living wage to married clergy with families, or to single priests at the level of their professional training. Instead of a stipend of $5,000 a year or so plus living expenses, they would face what protestant, orthodox and jewish congregations have to support -- a highly educated professional, possibly with a family, whose total package is easily $50,000 or more per year. The truth is that the Roman church does not and cannot face that reality, and continues to exploit men (and women as nuns -- many churches in rural areas are effectively led by nuns) in this cruel way in order to deploy the economic and vocational energies of generous, well-minded people willing to sacrifice in order to follow their calling, who nevertheless cannot, becauser they are human and lonely and exploited, always live up to what they signed on for.

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Guest chaz49wm

I like the title, I like the topic and most of the thread. I just dont think the Pedolphile stuff belongs in the same topic. It should be a topic all it's own. There is to much infurence by many here that gay priest's who supress their sexuality will become pedophiles and I dare one of you here to prove that. WE can say many things about celibacy , we can say many thing about sexuality and the repression there of it but DONT THINK WE CAN SAY IT IS THE CAUSE OF PEDOPHILE'S If you do you havent done your homework. Thats like saying all those repressed nuns who were also celibate wanted to act out with the boys and girls they taught. And nothing is further from the truth. While the church has had it's share of pedophiles its not unique. There have been just as many that were hetro and its not about sex it;s about control and yes it is a disease. So let's dont continue to lump in on because we dont like what the church stands for or has done, that is not fair by any means:P chuck

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Guest Thunderbuns

>"One article I read said that some dioceses, Boston

>included, could conceivably be bankrupted by the civil

>penalties stemming from abuse cases."

 

I know this is what the dioceses would like us to believe.

 

WHAT UTTER BULL SHIT

 

With the billions of dollars under control of the Vatican, it is the Pope who should personally sign each and every cheque with the monies coming out of their holdings.

 

The Boston dioceses in danger of going bankrupt. Boo hoo - who would care!

 

Thunderbuns

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The whole idea of forced celibacy seems odd, even unnatural. What other jobs or lifestyle require this?

 

What always struck me as odd from the Catholics is the pre-marriage counseling for young couples. Celibate male priests lecture and proclaim what is good for two young people, including sex. How credible can this priest be on issues of marital sex?

 

After the clergy he could always become a consultant.

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Guest neverbeenhad

Chaz,

The pedophile stuff IS the topic, if you read the first post. As the post above yours says, perhaps most priests are happy in their work and well-adjusted.

But there's no way priests are in general AS happy in their work as they were 30 or 40 years ago. The world has passed them by, they're in a dying profession, and they don't get the respect they used to at all. I bet a priest walking through a mall, especially in Boston, feels pretty damn low these days.

More importantly, there is a big difference between the older priests who are retiring now, who are pretty much your average joe, and the younger priests, who are, as I said in my post above, are increasingly out of the mainstream, by definition.

That is important when we think of how we as laymen view them, how seriously we take their teachings, and how well the church is going to adapt in the next few decades. That is, if it keeps going at all...

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cp8036:

 

>>Celibate male priests lecture and proclaim what is good for two young people, including sex. How credible can this priest be on issues of marital sex?<<

 

In fact, these very beneficial & popular pre-marriage weekend retreats for engaged couples are only moderated by a celibate priest. 90% of the material is presented by a group of 3-4 married couples, usually a very newly (1 year or so) couple, an older couple with say 40+ years of marriage, and a few with track records in between that.

 

This from my own personal experience in the Los Angeles area.

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>I want to know one thing? Why is it that the Catholic Priest

>who always takes it for the pedophilia cases. It's like no

>one else does it, B.S.

 

Not true. Our local fire marshall was caught in a pedophilia web sting and made headlines. There are often articles in the paper (NY Times, for example) about teachers, scout masters, etc. being busted.

 

>Do we hold the Church above the rest.

 

Yes, for two reasons: First, the RCC has set itself up as the bastion of truth and regularly tries to impose its own moral code on the rest of us when cities or states try to enact gay rights bills. Then, they condone pedophilia by transferring priests rather than dealing with it. This makes their hypocricy a bit hard to defend.

 

Second, the RCC, not the school board or the Boy Scouts or the local bank, has repeatedly covered up pedophilia and exposed kids in new parishes to predatory priests. That's just plain wrong.

 

Dick

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Guest DanNYC23

I wonder about all this talk about priestly sexuality, when what a priest does when he takes ordes is agree to not have sex. How does it enter at all into the discussion: is he gay or straight? I suppose one might say, if Priest X were not a priest but a layman, he'd be with a woman, and if Priest Q were a layman, he'd be with a man.

But, with those men who are priests, I wonder, where does sexuality enter at all, in practicing terms? I accept that, like Mychal Judge, a Roman Catholic clergyman might be more sympathetic to gay issues (AIDS deaths, etc), but as for actual sex, how does that enter into the conversation when the man has agreed, as part of his job description, to not have sex?

 

My fitst post, and glad to be chatting.

DA

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Guest Mother Theresa Escort

All this talk of pedophilia is making me horny, c'mon boys! How dare you turn against the Church that has fed and deceived you with an untold host of lies and propaganda. Have you no shame. That priest was not a pedophile, he was just a very friendly person. Being tactile let his students know that he cared for them. So he squeezed a genital here and there, sure, but that's only because he was aiming for the buns as they were diving into the pool in their speedos.

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Update on the Geohan affair

 

For those of you who might not have seen it, the following was reported today:

 

[h3]

Ex-Priest Convicted of Sexual Assault on Boy

Geoghan Faces Two More Criminal Cases, 84 Civil Suits

[/h1]

By DENISE LAVOIE

© The Associated Press

 

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (Jan. 18) - A defrocked priest was convicted Friday of indecent assault and battery for improperly touching a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool a decade ago.

 

John Geoghan, 66, still faces two other criminal cases and 84 civil lawsuits accusing him of sexual abuse of children. He was still a priest at the time of the 1991 episode.

 

As he had through much of the trial, Geoghan showed no emotion as the verdict was read. He faces a maximum of 10 years in prison.

 

''He was clearly stunned,'' said defense attorney Geoffrey Packard. He said he planned to appeal the conviction.

 

Since 1995, more than 130 people have claimed Geoghan fondled or raped them during the three decades he served in Boston-area parishes.

 

A jury of eight men and four women deliberated about eight hours over two days before reaching a verdict.

 

Geoghan, of Scituate, did not testify and did not have anyone testify for the defense. His lawyer told the jury that Geoghan had only touched the boy when he helped hoist him out of the pool.

 

His bail was revoked after his conviction and he was taken into custody. A hearing to decide on a sentencing date is scheduled for next Wednesday.

 

Earlier Friday, jurors asked the judge to what extent they should consider the boy's mother's testimony. Judge Sandra Hamlin replied that her testimony could be used only to corroborate her son's testimony, not to fill in gaps in the story.

 

In closing arguments Thursday, prosecutor Lynn Rooney said Geoghan betrayed the boy's trust when he allegedly grabbed his buttocks in the swimming pool at the Waltham Boys and Girls Club.

 

''I felt a hand go up the back of my leg. ...,'' the young man testified Wednesday. ''It was kind of like bells went off. I got really nervous.''

 

''I got away as fast as possible,'' he said.

 

Packard, however, implied the abuse charge was all about money, noting the alleged victim didn't come forward until eight years after the incident, and only after consulting an attorney, who later filed a civil suit. He also said too many other people were present for the incident to go unnoticed.

 

Rooney said that if the victim was after money, he would have come up with a more dramatic story.

 

Among the witnesses at the five-day trial was the Archbishop of New Orleans, the Rev. Alfred Hughes, who was Geoghan's supervisor in Boston in 1991. Hughes said he met with Geoghan after a woman complained Geoghan made ''inappropriate'' comments at the club pool.

 

He said he told Geoghan to stay away from the Waltham club, and Geoghan agreed. It was not clear from testimony if the warning came after the incident with the young man in this case. The victim could not remember the exact day Geoghan touched him.

 

Dr. Edward Messner, a psychiatrist, testified he discussed Geoghan's thoughts and fantasies about boys during a 1995 counseling session. He said they worked through methods to combat the thoughts.

 

The two remaining cases charge Geoghan with two counts each of child rape and child molestation. The first is scheduled to go to trial Feb. 20.

 

Last week, Cardinal Bernard Law publicly apologized to Geoghan's victims and ordered clergy and volunteers to report allegations of abuse against minors. The Archdiocese of Boston will have ''zero tolerance'' for sexual abuse by priests, he said.

 

Law's apology came just days after The Boston Globe reported that Law, during his first year in Boston in 1984, assigned Geoghan to St. Julia's Parish in Weston, even though Geoghan had been removed from two prior parishes for allegedly molesting children.

 

Law and five other bishops who supervised Geoghan have been accused of negligence in many of the civil suits for allegedly knowing of abuse and doing nothing to stop it.

 

AP-NY-01-18-02 1547EST

 

Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

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