Shocked

[Guest cp8036]

Since this section is for anything under the sun, and I can get lots of good comments from a variety of folks, I will post the following. Sorry for a heavy on Friday am.

 

Online I met this guy (not an escort) for a bit of fun. We hit it off well, had lots if common, and complimented each other sexually. We met twice so far, and had a great time. Actually, awesome times. Before meeting, I read in his profile he is negative and expects same. I am as well. Despite this info, we played safe.

 

The other day I see this site about cute bareback boy parties. I don't condone such events, but like sour milk in the fridge, you still need to get a sniff. All the while, I respect people's choice to do what they want, make their decisions. I could say it is wrong, it is murder, etc. It is their life to live and they take responsibility. But, I am not the activist type, so I am not about to protest.

 

I looked at the site and seen they have parties of 30-40 men at a house. No mention is made of hiv, neg, or poz. They comment that no condoms to be used -- bare/raw sex is the idea. I guess they feel should be "dont ask-dont tell". Also on the site is a link to their "bareback GANGBANG party". I clicked on this and is exactly what one thinks. Up to forty men gather, and wait to each take a turn fucking one selected bottom and cum inside his ass. They describe in delight how cum will be oozing and overflowing from the guy's ass.

 

I've seen this site before, and read about it. But, since is so far removed from my life, I never gave much thought. Also, the people shown looked as though they lived a fringe or extreme lifestyle. I don't mean to be guilty of "lookism".

 

You know where I am going. The bareback bottom for the gangbang was this guy I met. The ad went to say this will be his first gangbang and let's make it memorable.

 

My heart stopped. I was not fearful of my health, as we played safe. I was shocked that someone I knew was doing such a totally reckless act. While he may have lied about being neg, and was poz, I do not know. If he was neg, then he has a real strong desire to get infected with hiv. If he was poz, then I am glad I was careful. I assume a new sex buddy is positive and act accordingly.

 

I couldn't believe someone that was clean cut, good life going, and responsible all the way around would do this. I called him the night before the big event, but no answer. I called twice the morning of, to see if really true and make sure he thougtht it all over. He has avoided my calls. The first couple calls I didn't mention this party, but just left a generic message. I didn't want to lecture or scorn him, but to see what he was thinking.

 

I am by no means a Safe Sex Activist. I am careful in my life. Two guys could have bare sex, and not be infected. The odds could work for you. Maybe you know each other well, maybe you won't cum inside his ass (though doesn't remove the risk entirely). The same may have assessed each other, and felt is was a calculated risk. Same for a group sex party, though the odds really go way down. But, still could be a real miracle day for the odds of have sex with only negative men.

 

But this bare gangbang is way over the top. The explicit goal is to fill the guy's ass with cum. They have up to 40 men at the party. At this point there is no doubt, no risk, no chance -- it is for sure you will get seroconversion if you are not positive. There is no chance you will escape this. Even if someone was poz, such an act will expose you to other std's, strains, and so on. Even the issue of tears/cuts/tissue damage from such intensity is dangerous.

 

While I am sure the bottom can quit at any point, there is some implication that it is forced sex, like a rape. The guy doesn't have any control over who in the party fucks him (although they screen men to make sure they are fit and good-looking). Even if the bottom had a change of heart after one fucking, and quit, I wonder what the reaction would be of several horny men waiting in line to fuck his ass. Given the extreme nature of the party, not sure things would be so smooth.

 

Even if we remove the hiv element of this, the concept is a bit over the top. It fails to be erotic at this point.

 

I am fairly open-minded and laissez-faire about laws and rules on life but I am in utter disbelief. I remember months ago when some escort named Dick/redneck was broadcasting his getting fucked raw, and the top would cum in his ass. This was to be recorded and played on the net for money. While this was irresponsible of him, it was two men making a decision. He said the guy was neg, and he took the risk based on that.

 

This gangbang thing goes one step further. I am not prude at all, but what the fuck.

[Guest tmbg]

Not sure why you are so "shocked?" From your post they are consenting adults. You have to assume they know the health risk of their actions.

 

Cheers! Ritchie

[adriano46]

Shocked,

 

In a way your reaction fits my own with three or four escorts over the years who, while not advertising being bareback bottoms (or tops) tried to push the limits with me. With the "bottoms" I was in control and stopped everything in order to get "covered" but my shock was a well-known, and quite capable versatile guy who not only wanted me to top him bareback ("NO") but who tried to top me bareback. I was most uncomfortable as soon as I knew he was uncovered (I panicked and freaked out would be a better term), and he was really angry (almost violent) when I pushed him off, and knocked him off the bed in order to untangle us.

 

We who are middle aged, lived through the '70's and '80's and know what happened. But what surprises me is the number of younger guys (both escorts and non-escorts) who feel no need to practice safe sex, nor advertise this fact to partners. We have discussed this on other threads often enough, and YES, it is their choice, and YES, it is their life. But I still feel that more honesty must be shown.

 

I admit too - I often check to see whether an escort advertises also on the various BAREBACK sites... before I engage him. I have found a number who hide this from the general clientel, but wonder if they ever think of clients like me who do check such sites? And believe me, there are quite a few of them.

[vers7]

I understand being shocked by this don't ask, don't tell attitude. However, I'm always amazed (no longer shocked) by a self-destructive tendency that all humans seem to share. I'm amazed that people continue to smoke; drink or use drugs to excess; or eat to obesity. These all expressions of a psychological self-destructiveness that we, as humans, all seem to share. One would hope that as we get more mentally and chronologically mature, we can address these mental health issues. Unfortunately, some of us don't survive long enough to do so. It's certainly not unique to gay men.

[Guest BenDover]

Dear Friend,

I think you care about this guy alot. You have tempered your post incredibly, which only compounds the enormity of your concern. I don't know why he hasn't returned your calls, because you didn't indicate whether or not you informed him of your knowledge about the gangbang.

 

I am so impressed by your concern, your shock and amazement, and your attempts to be non-judgmental about something that I think could use a little judgment. We have become so afraid of expressing any kind of limit or boundary or norm in fear of hurting others, castigating them or acting prejudicially, that I sometimes wonder if we've lost our heads. Ultimately, people will do what they want to do, for whatever reason. We can't stop people from smoking, from driving while drinking, from eating themselves to death. It is a sad fact of life.

 

Sometimes, as an older member of the Tribe who survived this almost two decades of epidemic by good luck, some irrational fear, and by witnessing the devastating illness and death of over 60 friends, clients, and acquaintances (at the worst, 6 in 5 weeks), I wonder what more I could have done. What could we, as gay men who have survived the past twenty years, said or done to nurture self-esteem, to make safe the world for young pups coming out, to engender a sense of belonging to a greater community of people as they enter into the world of gay intimacy?

 

I have sniffed the "sour milk" by watching a rented bareback porn. I found it self-revealing that I was terribly turned on by it, and this disgusts me, and I struggle with the internal conflict. But I also know my own personal limits, what I will and will not do, what I will and will not support, eg. no more rented bareback videos, no matter how hot I thought it was.

 

Another thing that I saw in the video was the age of the guys in them. They were older, many looked older than me. I couldn't help but think, "Have they just gotten tired of it all?" I assume they are all positive. A disclaimer at the beginning states all the actors have made informed decisions. Well, if that's true, then what more can anyone do?

 

So, again, protect yourself first. In doing so, you will protect others. We are responsible for our own actions. Fantasize the the biggest cocks ever in the gangbang of your dreams, cum dribbling down your legs. But let it remain a fantasy. Believe it or not, there is more to life than fucking. There's life itself.

[Guest Kevin 2]

Well said BenDover as usual! BTW can someone post a link to the bareback site you guys are talking about. I will be sure to check it before I consider hiring an escort. If they list on that site, I sure as hell will cross them OFF my list!!

[vers7]

http://www.barebackcity.com/

I believe that this is the site that got Andrew Sullivan in hot water as a result of the add which "Mr. Conservative--Conscious" placed.

[Guest bottomboykk]

Also http://www.bareback.com/

[Guest AdamLVescort]

This is an email that I received the other Day! I was really upset by it since I have never barebacked but only with my partner of 2 years. We both have been tested neg and we try to maintain a healthy lifetstyle. When I received this I was almost in tears. I couldn't beleive that 1.)Someone has posted my personal information on a site with this kind of content 2.) What will my clients think of me . Of course you can see below how I responded. Very Confused. Just for the record I would never bareback anyone no matter how much they would pay me its just not worth the risk.

 

I have searched all over this site and the other one and I can't find anything with my info on it but still this bugs me to death. I understand that stuff like this really turns guys on but NOT me! What do you say to someone that is into this... I couldn't even respond really since I didn't really know what to say.

 

Again to my clients: This is one act I will NEVER take place in and if this is one of your requests then you will have to look for another escort!

 

 

MY REPLY:

Thanks for the invite but I have never barebacked in fact I am trying to find out how this could even be. I have checked both sites and I have not been able to find a listing for myself. I know I haven't registered with this site so I wonder if someone is falsely representing me.

 

Adam}>

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Raw Hire" <raw4hire@hotmail.com>

To: <adamlvescort@hotmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:46 PM

Subject: Fwd: Hiring Bareback Escorts for Party in Seattle on 12/14 -12/15

 

> >From: "Raw Hire" <xxxxx@xxxx.com>

> >Toxxxx@xxxx.com

> >Subject: Fwd: Hiring Bareback Escorts for Party in Seattle on

12/14 -12/15

> >Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:50:26 -0800

> >

> >> >>From: "Raw Hire" <xxxx@xxxx.com>

> >>To: xxxx@xxxx.com

> >>Subject: Hiring Bareback Escorts for Party in Seattle on 12/14 -12/15

> >>Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 23:06:33 -0800

> >>

> >>Hiring Bareback Escorts for Party in Seattle on 12/14 -12/15

> >>looking to hire about 8 very attractive escorts from the west coast to attend a bareback party in Seattle on Friday 12/14 about 8pm til Saturday 12/15 about 12-15 or so hours ..

> >>We are looking to hire 4 young lean or twink types and 4 more masculine.

> >>All of you had pictures either at Barebackcity.com or Bareback.com under

escorts and Most of you had face shots or enough pictures for us to

determine to invite you. Some of you may also be hiv+ most of you did not list hiv status. Most of you also listed your Daily rate on the site. Travel to Seattle will be covered (round trip) as well as your Daily rate. For starters if you are interested and/or have further questions please reply to this e-mail as soon as possible.

> >>for some of you we have further requests (i.e. more pics, daily rate, sexual positions availabity) so if you are interested in being hired for Friday Night in Seattle please reply and we can make the arrangments > >>

> >>Besides you 8 escorts, attending will be myself, the paying client, and

possibly a few other invitees. for a total of about 15.

> >>We will discuss your sexual position for the party and most of you

listed versatile and will be hired as such, there may be 1 total top hired

and 1 total bottom.

> >>You will be asked to fulfill your sexual position during the party as we discuss before you are hired, by any particapant. The only people who will know that you are escorts are the other escorts and we will review the rules before other guests arrive, myself and the paying client. The other guests will think it is just a bareback party and will ask you to preform either top or bottom for them and we ask that you comply like you were at the party and want to do what they ask. The only exception will be if we hired you as a Top Only or a Bottom Only then you only preform that feat.> >>

> >>Again any questions please respond to this E-mail and do so as soon as possible. This is for REAL, not a joke or prank 8 escorts will be selected and flown to Seattle and paid for their day.

> >>

> >>Thank you for your consideration.

> >>

> >>Raw.

 

 

 

 

Adam

 

http://www.adamlvescort.com

[Donnie]

>my shock was a well-known, and

>quite capable versatile guy who not only wanted me to top

>him bareback ("NO") but who tried to top me bareback.

 

Of course you were shocked. If TT's rating of you is accurate, it is indeed shocking that someone would want to be in your ass, let alone without a very thick piece of latex protecting him from you.

[Guest cp8036]

You're absolutely right. I never thought of it like that.

 

I was foolishly stuck on the fact that this is someone I shared a lot of time with, connected with, and who I thought was a responsible person. Then to think he either, one, lied about his status to me, or two, suddenly had an intense desire to seroconvert.

[Guest cp8036]

http://www.sfbarebackboyz.homestead.com

 

Was in aol under a screen name, but the name escapes me now.

[Guest cp8036]

my above post in response to tmbg, message #1.

[Guest Charon]

I can understand being shocked.

 

It's like hearing someone you like is excited by the prospect of putting a loaded gun to their head and pulling the trigger. Only worse. Their right to do so doesn't change a rational person's response to it.

 

I can only hope that your friend is already positive and doesn't grasp the potential issues of multiple strain infections. The alternative is repulsive.

[Guest cp8036]

Thanks for good point Charon. Well put, better than I was able to say.

 

I checked some of the sites that others mentioned above. I found a few examples of guys making claims of taking 20 guys in a night, and hope for 30 next time.

 

I have seen a lot, but I continue to be shocked.