Stop the AFA!

[seaboy4hire]

Hi Everyone,

 

Please sign the petition on the link below. There are religious right wing groups, such as the AFA, trying to stop the broadcast of Madonna's NBC Special, which there is a segment where she performs hanging on the Cross. This section of the concert is more of a "infomercial" educating people on the devastating tragedy HIV/AIDS has had on the Children orphaned by the disease in Africa.

 

Please keep in mind that none of these people have seen the show and have no idea what context it is being used in. I have seen the show 3 times! Madonna does not mock or desecrate the Cross or the Christian faith in any way. This is nothing more then a moving tribute to what the Cross really represents: Love, Hope and Refuge.

 

One of the many beautiful things about this country is the right for artistic expression. Don't let them take this right away. If they succeed, Madonna doesn't just lose, WE ALL LOSE!

 

You can watch part of the performance here (click under multimedia) : http://www.raisingmalawi.org/rm/home.html

 

Petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/cf6m2006/petition.html

 

Hugs,

Greg

 

Stop The Repression of Artistic Expression!

 

[email protected]

I'll be in Chicago October 1st and 2nd, 2006

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com New page for reveiws http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle

 

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3307/dsc05257be3.jpg[/img][/url]

[Guest ReturnOfS]

Thanks for posting this seaboy.

 

I wanted to put down a reply of what I thought of that group, but the type of reply that I was going to give would have certainly landed this post in the Politics/ Religion section.

 

I hope that everything works out.

[seaboy4hire]

>Thanks for posting this seaboy.

>

>I wanted to put down a reply of what I thought of that group,

>but the type of reply that I was going to give would have

>certainly landed this post in the Politics/ Religion section.

>

>I hope that everything works out.

 

Thanks for the kind words. I am sure a lot of people are probably thinking blah it's just Madonna who cares? But really this is about censorship. I find it out that it is ok to show a person being draged in the streets of a third world nation but G-d forbid someone get up on a cross and convey a positive message about helping others.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[email protected]

I'll be in Chicago October 1st and 2nd, 2006

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com New page for reveiws http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle

 

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3307/dsc05257be3.jpg[/img][/url]

[seaboy4hire]

Bump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMfumfd-lY

 

Hugs,

Greg

[email protected]

I'll be in Chicago October 1st and 2nd, 2006

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com New page for reveiws http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle

 

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3307/dsc05257be3.jpg[/img][/url]

[Rick Munroe]

Greg, I was sorry to read that NBC caved and will edit out the cross scene after all: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-TV-Madonna-Crucifixion.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[seaboy4hire]

Thanks Rick. I am sad too that they caved in but I guess the AFA screamed the loudest. I am going to call NBC today and tell them how unhappy I am that they are siding with these nuts and that I will not be watching the special nor will I most likely not watch NBC in the future.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[email protected]

I'll be in Chicago October 1st and 2nd, 2006

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com New page for reveiws http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle

 

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3307/dsc05257be3.jpg[/img][/url]

A day on t

[seaboy4hire]

To anyone who may have signed the petition I want to say thank you. This just wasn't about Madonna for me it was also about not letting the AFA continue to push companies around for their discriminatory beliefs. Again thanks to those who signed.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[email protected]

I'll be in Chicago October 1st and 2nd, 2006

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com New page for reveiws http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle

 

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3307/dsc05257be3.jpg[/img][/url]

A day on t

[Guest Merlin]

It is not censorship unless it is governmental action. While free speech involves the right to ridicule the religions of others, it also involves the right of the ridiculed to protest and boycott. The TV Channel was simply exercizing its right not to speak in a way that will offend millions of its viewers.

[Guest PWIT]

Merlin,

I agree with your perspective on censorship.

 

Greg

It is obvious (or appears) you have a great admiration of Madonna. My only question for you would be in regard to your statement: "I find it out that it is ok to show a person being draged in the streets of a third world nation but G-d forbid someone get up on a cross and convey a positive message about helping others."

 

Now, I try hard not to question one's motives, but if it was Madonna's motive to 'convey a positive message about helping others' I believe that is best done w/o trying to offend while trying to present to the widest audience. If it was truly her motive to get that message across, the approach was not one that would yield the greatest success.

 

If you are trying to persuade someone of an argument (in your suggestion this would be to help others) start from some point of mutual understanding - don't start by trying to offend the people (or subset) that you are trying to reach.

 

If I was to debate Madonna's motives, I would lean toward there being more of a commercial motive. I would defend this argument in several ways:

1) price of tickets would be different if the motive was of one to get the message out - they would reflect closer to actual cost of the event and from what I read there is a huge profit margin

2) profits would be directed to furthering the message - from info gathered on the internet (so reliability may be in question) Madonna does give a lot to charitable efforts, but not in a significant percentage of her income that is above the avg American

3) past history of offending behavior that has resulted in high levels of publicity used for commercial purposes

 

I'm sure I could go on, but it is really not my purpose to debate her motives. I don't have strong feelings either way, just my point is that if it was her motive for her concerts to convey a positive message and motivate people to help others it could have be done in better ways. From the outside looking in, it has the perception her motives may have included other things.

 

But that is just the perception of someone who has been procrastinating all morning and should be outside raking leaves.

[RockHard]

Merlin is the only poster who responded to this thread with any intelligence.

 

"One of the many beautiful things about this country is the right for artistic expression. Don't let them (religious right wing groups) take this right away. If they succeed, Madonna doesn't just lose, WE ALL LOSE! "

 

I disagree, and Greg needs to look a little deeper on this subject.

 

Creative rights do not exist on (free) national broadcast stations, which is why Janet Jackson's disregard for her contract with CBS ended in fiasco, lawsuits and serious fines. NBC (CBS, ABC, and FOX) offers a free service for anyone who owns a television. They pay their bills through advertising dollars. If enough financial sponsors speak up against any controversial airings, each broadcasting company has a financial responsibility to listen. They are not "free" to air whatever they like.

 

If you're looking for "the right to artistic expression," buy a ticket to a Madonna concert and feel free to fart creatively to the beat. In the USA, you are permitted to do so and she is permitted to present her show as she sees fit.

 

"I am sure a lot of people are probably thinking blah it's just Madonna who cares?"

Honestly, what serious thinker cares about Madonna? Isn't she the entertainer who said, "If Robert DiNiro can act then why can't I?"

 

"But really this is about censorship."

But really, NO it's not. Unfortunately, this thread is about Greg, who is a die-hard Madonna fan, who dislikes religion and those who practice faith, who doesn't know enough about the subject of censorship and/or the legal rights of national broadcast stations in America.

 

"but G-d forbid someone get up on a cross and convey a positive message about helping others"

I disagree that Madonna on any cross is a positive message. Madonna is not Jesus Christ (regardless of her good fortune). Some could easily argue that Madonna's schtick is to be irreverent, self-indulgent and patronizing. If she ever had a positive message, she lost her voice long ago. (Did she ever have a voice?)

 

"I am sad too that they caved in but I guess the AFA screamed the loudest."

Where would gay men be today if ACT-UP hadn't screamed loudly in the old days of pre-retroviral cocktail AIDS? Should all screaming be banned? Or should we only ban the screams that don't serve your adoration for Madonna, Greg? Tell me, how do you define democracy and freedom? Perhaps, "Madonna for President!"

 

"I will not be watching the special nor will I most likely not watch NBC in the future."

I love the (disjointed English) disclaimer, "nor will I most likely not watch NBC." Nice to see you're a man of strong conviction, Greg. :-)

 

At least you're easy on the eyes.

[AdamSmith]

>Merlin is the only poster who responded to this thread with

>any intelligence.

 

This assertion remains easy to agree with. :+

[Rick Munroe]

>It is not censorship unless it is governmental action.

 

Not in any dictionary I've ever read!

[Guest PWIT]

>>It is not censorship unless it is governmental action.

>

>Not in any dictionary I've ever read!

 

Technically you are correct Rick. Everyone exercises some form of censorship - probably everyday (do you really think the words that come out of my mouth are actually what I am thinking?). But in this situation, it is not censorship in the terms of freespeach being violated. It is the free market in action in the sense the broadcaster is choosing not to air something that may potentially impact its bottom line. To see the portion excluded, you will either have to fork over money for a ticket (or later DVD, cable, etc.).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

[bigpeteratlanta]

PWIT - you are exactly correct. Like every other company NBC is in business to make a profit. They do so be appealing to the widest possible market and not offending their viewers. Obviously in this country a large percentage of their viewers are Christians and a

television program that many would perceive as ridiculing that religion would not be a wise business decision.

Madonna or anyone else is free in this country to speak about or

depict any religion as they like just as NBC is free to

present or not present that depiction on their network.

[Lookin]

RE: Long live the activists!

 

As far as I can tell, Greg had it right from the get go.

 

Rather than just observe what NBC and the AFA were doing, he chose to take some action - and to invite some like-minded folks to join him. Nothing wrong with that. Naturally, the networks need to listen to their sponsors, but they also need to listen to their viewers (including, of course, the AFA). The viewers are what the advertisers are paying for. So the networks - and the advertisers - have to do a balancing act.

 

If the AFA is the only one screaming, then you’ll get a certain kind of programming. If you and your friends also start screaming, then you’ll see something else. That’s the way it works: one program, one sponsor, and one network at a time.

 

I don’t believe that social values stay exactly the same for very long; they’re either moving closer to something you like, or further away from something you like. I’m glad for the screamers among us :o :* :-), and I’m glad to see Greg work with others to try making the changes they want to see. If it doesn’t work this time, it may work the next time. I say go for it.

[uptownmike]

RE: Long live the activists!

 

Looking & Greg : you throw the terms "censorship" and "repression of artistis expression" around very loosely showing you have little understanding of both terms. No one is attempting to deny this womans' performing and using any props she wishes at any time. If someone like Greg wants to pay several hundred dollars for a ticket multiple times to see her perform, that's his business and again no one

is attempting to deny him that choice.

 

However, NBC is a public held corporation ( Disclaimer- one of my mutual funds holds NBC stock) who's number one obligation is to maxamize return on investment for its stockholders. They want to appeal to and hold the largest audiences (ratings) possible. They have a department that reviews all shows they put on the air to attempt to avoid controversy. A segment of a program that depicts

a certain popular religion in a way many viewers would find offensive

is certainly not a way to build ratings or goodwill for NBC or any other network.

 

All the above illustrate two important principles in a democracy (1)

freedom of expression for the individual and (2) open market

capitalism.

[RockHard]

RE: Madonna flops!

 

Either the American public is really tired of her or many viewers sided with Greg. The NBC Madonna special only drew 4.6 million viewers. Those are The Apprentice with Martha Stewart numbers. Sad. I guess she's no Brittany.