Kevin Aviance gay bashed

[RockHard]

And they call me blowhard.

 

Forgive me, I apologize. I wrote too quickly. My sentence should read:

 

"But your post had a slap-one's-face, accusatory sting no different than the vain, self-absorbed, trouble-making posts belonging to that man with the mirror."

 

As for the rest of the foaming-at-the-mouth drool, all I care to say is butterfly effect. Beyond that, there's no way I could possibly dignify your post, VaHawk, by responding further.

 

Rick Munroe knows how I feel about him. Rick Munroe knows what I meant. That's all I give a damn about here.

[VaHawk]

RE: And they call me blowhard.

 

>Forgive me, I apologize. I wrote too quickly. My sentence

>should read:

>

>"But your post had a slap-one's-face, accusatory sting no

>different than the vain, self-absorbed, trouble-making posts

>belonging to that man with the mirror."

 

Well SAID! The defense attorneys at Nuremberg would be PROUD of that response.

 

>As for the rest of the foaming-at-the-mouth drool, all I care

>to say is butterfly effect. Beyond that, there's no way

>I could possibly dignify your post, VaHawk, by responding

>further.

 

Glad to see that it took the Hawk to leave you speechless! WOW! who "woulda thunk it"?!

>

>Rick Munroe knows how I feel about him. Rick Munroe knows what

>I meant. That's all I give a damn about here.

 

Sorry, but you SHOULD give a damn about how you come across to everyone, when you expound your views on a public forum! Maybe Rick knows you, but the rest of the world, and I'm sorry if this bruises your ego, DOESN'T, and can only take you at your words.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Being less than pretty.

 

>Of

>course, given that I live in the Gay Village in Montreal, all

>I have to do is walk down the street to see all of the above

>and more any day of the week and any hour. It does make one

>blasse after a while.:+

 

I could never be blasé about Montreal. Too many sexy Frenchies. :9 And I agree with your agreement!

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Being less than pretty and in denial.

 

>Rick, you and every other gay man has a right to be pissed

 

But I wasn't pissed about his post. It's possible to disagree without anger.

 

>but

>I think it's far more productive if we do something positive

>with our collective anger.

 

Well, I certainly hope I'm being productive every time I attempt to educate someone about their gay stereotyping or homophobia (whether it's conscious or unintentional).

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Being less than pretty.

 

>Knowing Benjamin, I'm fairly sure that his question was just

>an innocuous inquiry, that was in no way intended the way that

>RM interpreted it to be, but I can also understand RM's

>interpretation.

 

Hawk, thanks for your post. I agreed with all of it, and thanks for the comparison between me and the Stonewall-era activists (although, I've never thrown a brick!). I just wanted to say that I never thought there was anything evil in BN's post. But I do think there are things that gay (and straight) people sometimes say re: gays that, whether they realize it or not, can be harmful to us as a group and as individuals...whether it's saying a masculine gay guy is "straight-acting" or wondering if a bashing victim was dressed in a too-outrageous outfit. Even if it was an "innocent inquiry," there's still a basis and a mindset for the question.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: And they call me blowhard.

 

>Rick Munroe knows how I feel about him. Rick Munroe knows what

>I meant. That's all I give a damn about here.

 

Rock, I think I do know what you meant, which is that the vicim is to blame. And I respectfully disagree.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: And they call me blowhard.

 

>Maybe

>Rick knows you, but the rest of the world, and I'm sorry if

>this bruises your ego, DOESN'T, and can only take you at your

>words.

 

I've met my share of rock hard cocks, but I haven't met Rock Hard (at least, I don't think so...I never know who most people really are on here) so I actually only know him from his posts here. But I guess I'm just known as a very perceptive guy.

[bigjake8]

Apperently most of you are so busy locked inside behind your computers hashing out absolutley nothing that you'll never have to worry about being bashed.

 

I'll be out on the street this afternoon.

[RockHard]

RE: Being less than pretty.

 

"Sorry, but you SHOULD give a damn about how you come across to everyone"

 

I can't control the minds of other people and I have no desire to do so. I can't control what other people think and/or how they grossly misinterpret my writing, my feelings, my opinion, myself. I don't stress out over things I can't control.

 

Maybe VaHawk feels in a fighting mood but I will not be drawn into his silly wannabe-scuffle because of the brainless accusations he made. In my psyche book, that's called manipulation and I refuse to play his game. And, btw, I'm far from speechless.

 

"Rock, I think I do know what you meant, which is that the vicim is to blame."

 

Well, then, I stand corrected. Rick does not know what I meant.

 

I wondered when someone would misconstrue this dialogue and turn it into a blame game. I accept that fear and anger have a roll in this shortsightedness. It's human nature. After all, any one of us could be a Kevin Aviance one day, and possibly not survive the attack.

 

I'm very disappointed that it had to be Rick Munroe, one of my favorite contributors, who would openly imply that my words were meant to blame the victim for the crime. He's dead wrong.

 

"I just wanted to say that I never thought there was anything evil in BN's post. But I do think there are things that gay (and straight) people sometimes say re: gays that, whether they realize it or not, can be harmful to us as a group and as individuals"

 

I would not use the word "evil" to characterize the tone of your first post to BN but one would be blind to miss the wagging, scolding finger. How nice to see the tone change in this recent post. Had you used that tone initially, I doubt I would have responded the way I did.

 

Free speech is not a crime and I can't believe I'm listening to a gay man endorse any kind of censorship (for the good of mankind)! Sometimes words are stupid, and hate-filled, and they come from stupid people who haven't learned or don't know better but speech only stings, it doesn't kill people. Actions kill people. Let's hope Jake's rally will change the way all parents bring up their kids.

 

I really hate political correctness and I seriously dislike people who wish to make a perfect world by shutting up dissenters or the uneducated. Hasn't Hitler taught history anything?

[Rick Munroe and Derek Ross]

We'll be there. :-)

[Lookin]

Rick, Derek, and Bigjake, thanks very much for participating in the rally today. I hope you'll get a chance to let us know how it went.

[RockHard]

Reporting live.

 

The sun is out and Hedda Lettuce looks hot. I've always enjoyed her. It's a quiet rally as far as NYC outdoor events go—about 100 or so people, mostly men and some of them quite good-looking. The group gathered on the east corner of 14th Street and 1st Ave and is now walking west on 13th to Sheridan Square. My favorite sign: "Don't fuck with me fellas!" I think Mr. Aviance will be pleased.

 

This is RockHard reporting live for Hooboy News. RockHard out.

[RockHard]

RE: Bad education.

 

"But I wasn't pissed about his post."

 

Nobody said you were, Rick. It's clear you weren't able to connect that dot and make the "generally speaking" connection intended. But your attempt to deflect is noted, even though you're not blonde enough to pass for dumb. :-)

 

"Well, I certainly hope I'm being productive every time I attempt to educate someone about their gay stereotyping or homophobia (whether it's conscious or unintentional)."

 

Well, apart from the not-so-subtle condescension, I don't recall anyone asking you to "educate" any of the non-members of the Rick Munroe Anti Gay-Stereotyping School. I'm surprised Tom Isern hasn't scolded you for insulting many of the "uneducated" men on this board. I guess he reserves that treatment for me. (How flattering.)

 

And what about the sissy-mary queens who stand tall and proud, with a lisp on their lips and a wabbling stagger in their high-heels, who refuse to be lumped into any "butch," muscle-queen category? Don't they have a right to be recognized?

 

A good deal of stereotyping is benign. Where would literature, drama, and "I Love Lucy" re-runs be without it? The idea that "all" gay stereotyping is as hurtfully serious as a stabbing or death is just plain silly. It's also hyper-reactionary and insists we look at (gay) life in absolutes, which is NOT a smart thing to teach ANYONE.

 

Muscles alone don't make a gay man manly and not all straight men are butch (just ask any French woman). And it seems quite clear to me, Rick, you have sissy issues. Good luck with that body building.

 

However, I fail to realize what any of this blabber has to do with the natural, God-given right to be curious. According to the Rick-School; when we see a car crash, we're only permitted to ask the questions he considers "educated" and "correct." God forbid if the driver was a gay muscle-queen dressed in drag and high on K.

 

Wondering what Kevin Aviance wore the night of his attack is NOT homophobia, it's NOT gay stereotyping, it's NOT blaming the victim, and it's NOT wrong. It's just being curious. And any man who wishes to shut down curiosity and prevent you from asking—his idea of a "wrong" question—is nothing more than a censor; in this case, a pontificating, condescending one.

 

Rick, I think you owe Benjamin Nicholas an apology for your "attack" tone but I have a feeling I'm more likely to be offered a free hour with Tom Isern before that happens. I am truly disappointed in your manly stature.

 

ps "Chelsea sucks now. Carrie Bradshaw and the Sex and the City girls have taken over..." This quote was penned by Rick Munroe on this board. Is it not a stereotype? Was it not intended to illustrate a negative stereotype? Maybe for humor? For colorful impact? Are "straight" women excluded from Rick's no-stereotyping school/rule?

 

Don't you just love a man who speaks from the left side of his mouth while trying to shove his foot into the "right" side? :-)

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Bad education.

 

>I don't

>recall anyone asking you to "educate"

 

What I enjoy about this message board (aside from posting silly one-liners) is the civil exchange of ideas and thoughts without personal attack. I've disagreed with other posters before, and have sometimes changed my mind & feelings about certain issues after being presented with a logical or persuasive argument. I'd like to continue to engage in the discussions here, mostly for fun, but sometimes to educate and to be educated. I didn't realize I needed a formal invitation to participate.

 

>And what about the sissy-mary queens who stand tall and proud,

>with a lisp on their lips and a wabbling stagger in their

>high-heels, who refuse to be lumped into any "butch,"

>muscle-queen category? Don't they have a right to be

>recognized?

 

Huh? I'm not sure where that, or the rest of your post, is coming from. I never said drag queens shouldn't be "recognized." I said that we should not imply that they somehow bring it upon themselves to be attacked by gay bashers.

 

>and not all straight

>men are butch

 

Right, you're agreeing with me. The term "straight-acting" implies that all straight men are masculine, and all gay men are effeminate. There are masculine and effeminate men in all sexual orientations, and I feel we need to treat people as individuals. I don't think there is anything wrong with using descriptive words to describe people, but I do think it is bigotry to assign descriptive words to entire groups, such as "lazy" blacks, "cheap" jews, and "queeny" gays.

 

>And any man who wishes to shut down curiosity and prevent you

>from asking—his idea of a "wrong" question—is nothing more

>than a censor; in this case, a pontificating, condescending

>one.

 

As I told you in reply to one of the lengthy emails you sent me yesterday (btw, I'm glad you've decided to go back to posting here instead of yesterday's email barrage...my inbox gets filled up pretty fast! :o ), I am not a moderator here, I did not delete his post nor did I ask for it to be deleted. I don't have the power to censor here but we all have the power to express ourselves and engage in civil debate. And by the way, speaking of censorship, that's what you're attempting to do by telling me how I should have responded to Benjamin's post. :+

[RockHard]

RE: Bad education.

 

"And by the way, speaking of censorship, that's what you're attempting to do by telling me how I should have responded to Benjamin's post."

 

SAY WHAT? You need to check your dictionary, dear, before you start edjukatin' that class. And look up the word "recommendation."

 

"I never said drag queens shouldn't be "recognized.""

 

I wasn't talking about "drag" queens. Not all femme-queens are drag queens, silly.

 

">and not all straight

>men are butch

 

Right, you're agreeing with me."

 

No, I'm not. And no matter how much you try to deflect the point with this disco-ball-dance of yours, I stand by my assessment of your judgmental, "attack" response to Benjamin Nicholas.

 

And as I said in response to all the unfocused blather you offered in those private emails you mentioned, I can't debate with someone who sees an apple and an orange as the same fruit. For me, this discussion ends here. :-)