solacesoul

Salvador has a greater crime problem than Rio, even if only negligible — as do most of the major cities in the Northeast. Violent crimes in the NE of Brazil are worse and more frequent than in the South. This is verifiably true from available crime stats. The garotos in the NE are not 1/2 the cost of those in Rio but they are less expensive. Maybe about 3/4 the cost. As for “just as sexy”, that’s a matter of personal taste. Because it’s not as much of a gym culture there, the available GPs tend not to be as muscular. And of course, there are less GPs in saunas an in ads. But 90% of the residents of the Bahia are of African descent, so you’re most likely to see black men there than anywhere else outside of the African continent.

It depends on what you think is infrequent or unusual. In Copacabana and Ipanema, these happen maybe every 5-7 years. Anything like that in the tonier districts of Rio where most tourists stay and where most expats live make the national and international news. They happen much more often in the favelas, Zona Norte, and Western Rio, but because the “wrong” people live there (read: blacker, browner, poorer), it’s never covered beyond local TV news blurbs — unless it’s a mass shooting / killing, the size of the ones that occur in the USA weekly at this point. The Farme do Amoedo incident (at least the one I am referring to) occurred in the early 2010s, if my memory serves me correctly. You might be mistaking your timeline with the gang warfare from rival favelas Cantagalo and Pavão-Pavãozinho that bled out into the street entrance on the edge of Copacabana and Ipanema. Or maybe the beach riot in 2019 near Posto 4 in Copacabana during Carnaval time that ended in police dispersing the large crowd of party goers and beachers with tear gas. In Rio, post-pandemic there’s been recurrent wave of mass robberies known as “arrastoes,” or “dragnets”. An ‘arrastao’ is when a big group of people, usually teenagers and kids, from the favelas go to the beach and in a group rob everyone they can see. Since the group is often the majority, sometimes people cannot do anything about it. The popular beaches are mostly in Zona Sul, including Copacabana and Ipanema, and other than Leblon that’s where the money is, so these beaches are often targeted. Sure, police presence is heavy by those beaches, but that only acts as a deterrent, not a prophylactic. In any event, any type of drug gang activity or violence in Zona Sul neighborhoods is typically confined to the favelas. The trafficantes don’t want the problems from the UPP police that are caused when things bleed out into the streets where the rich residents and tourists are. And none of the favela residents want problems with the drug lords because they run their favelas and they can exact their own level of justice. Crimes against tourists and residents of Zona Sul are almost always confined to petty thefts and robberies (street crimes).

You were there, too? This occurred on one of my longterm stays. Everyone ran for cover into whatever building or store front was still open. A few years ago, there was a huge favela crime-related fight on Copacabana Beach that ended in the entire crowd being dispersed with tear gas. A year or so later, there was a similar one on Ipanema Beach.

From one non-white person to another, kindly explain to me what knowing its wholly inappropriate to suck dick in the public square and sexually gyrate in front of young children have fuck all to do with being raised by white parents?

You can watch this short film from 2018 on Vimeo for about $4 USD. Here’s the synopsis: Thirty-year-old Ursinho (Teddy Bear), an introverted mulatto who lives with his disabled father in a favela, drags his excess weight around like a burden. He likes to hang out in Point 202, a gay sauna in Rio where taxi boys (garotos de programa) strictly reserve themselves for wealthy clients. While cleaning the apartment of an elderly man in Copacabana, he discovers a beautiful young man who is fast asleep. He can't get the vision of this alabaster body out of his mind. Subtitles in English. https://vimeo.com/ondemand/ursinhorio

Kindly provide some examples of what you mean by this. I’m not going to affirm or deny this statement until I can better understand it.

I have zero reason to believe that four independent board members — three of which are long-time, well-respected members with extensive travel history and imparted knowledge on the boards — would make up the same / similar story about him. One of them is arguably one of the most respected, storied, and universally well-liked members / travelers on these boards. So... they’re ALL lying and just out to get this poor old harmless sap? At this point, the only person who is gaslighting and saying it didn't happen, “so who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”, is the accused with multiple independent accusers. And as we all know, this is the very same person who, in spite of clear, well-established mounting evidence that he posts across the gay sex tourism / pay sex forum-verse under at least three different usernames, he denies it is he. Everything I say can be backed up with documentation and correspondence. Remember, he wouldn’t have run to mods at that other place to shut down a case of mistaken identity.

You keep focusing on ONE young man that you feel you can easily malign. Now, explain away the others you doxxed and made inappropriate contact with. Maybe you forgot because you do it so often.

Genuine question: Even if what you’re saying was correct — which again, is highly doubtful considering your warped perception skills over your posting years — why would anyone owe you their curriculum vitae, if all you’re doing is discussing the joys of hiring for sex and then possibly meeting at a sex work establishment, maybe even a meal before or after? Why would you feel this somehow entitles you to know anything at all about their personal lives, including but not limited to their educational or employment history?

On these types of boards and in saunas over the years, there have been (verifiably) posters / members who in real life are: federally elected politicians, appointed judges, famous fashion designers, (legitimate, non-porn) film directors and producers, award-winning journalists, airline pilots, plastic surgeons, US attorneys, music business executives, college professors, and the list goes on. No one knows (and very few care) because these posters / members aren’t so obnoxious, and they aren’t violating other members / clients’ personal space and right to privacy.

It’s so bizarre how he doubles down on this — when a simple, “yeah, it’s me, so what?” would’ve worked.

“This is who he is. This is what he looks like. This is what he did to me. Here is our correspondence. Be warned.” I hope that answers your question. Trust me. I certainly did not go looking for it. I leave the USA to get away from pasty old stuffy white guys. I am certainly not looking for them (or to hang out with them) when abroad.

I mean, seriously. He wants to pretend as if multiple, independent sources don’t already know who he is offline. (And before he starts freaking out and running to moderators at this site too, rest assured: no one cares enough about you to reveal your actual name / photo. Honestly, you’re not even that remotely interesting.)

Ok, Rachel Dolezal. I guess you can be a black woman, too!

Here’s an OP related tale, Pre-Karen term: First visit to Apolo Sauna in Santo Domingo (maybe 2009-2010?), an obviously gay white American wanted a full refund for his “unproductive” sauna visit. The owner (a Cuban now living in the DR) refused. White American Gay Karen immediately says: “if you don’t give me a refund, I’m going to write a VERY negative review on Trip Advisor about your establishment! And ALL the American and European tourists will see it!”

This was a defense in your behalf, Bobert. My mistake. I’ll never do that again.

Bobert: You keep harping on this one younger guy, the one you fished around for information on, but there are 4 separate, unrelated posters / board members / travelers. The one that you keep posting about thinking it’s (only) him is not even the main one who, after having direct contact with you, made the grave warning about you. You can try to malign all of their character all you wish in your attempt at self-defense, but it won’t work. At least two are highly-respected, longterm posters who have no reason to trash anyone, and quite frankly, in all of their years of contributions to boards and travel, it’s never been part of their displayed character. In fact, other than you, I’ve never really seen or heard them say anything untoward about anyone. And when it was said about you, it wasn’t mean-spirited, vicious or catty, it was just matter-of-factly, in a “this is what transpired between us and this is why I recommend maintaining distance.” So, maybe, just maybe, Bobert, it isn’t them. Maybe it’s you. So… Circling back to the original subject: taking accountability of one’s own actions.

Oh, Bobert. We all know that your own various threads through the forum-verse get very little traffic and responses, but please… try to keep your projection down to a minimum. I am really beginning to think your twisted end game is just to get posters that you don’t like or who call you out banned, and if you have to go down with the ship, then you’re fine and dandy with it. I am not interested in playing out publicly here (in a thread not even on that topic) what was already perfectly stated at another forum where you also post. I am not going to play that silly game with you, So, if you have something to say that is unrelated to the original post here, then take it in private DM or start another of your own threads.

What this particular customer did for you doesn’t require much scrutiny at all. It was called kindness, or in modern generational American circles, it’s referred to as “paying it forward”. He may have been considering that time is greater than money in his case, but instead of shouting you or “the help” down, or being a “Karen”, he chose to pay your way. I don’t understand what stereotype you think would come into play in this instance. Are you suggesting that older male Canucks receive harsh racial discrimination of some sort?

Back to the original post’s topic: As has been suggested by other forum members here, this Google Review might have some hint of truth to it, or it could simply be another case of intent vs. impact (I.e., the offenders aren’t meaning to come across as racist, but the impacted party receives it as such). OR, it could just be a maladjusted cliente feeling slighted, ignored or ripped off, using online reviews as his source of revenge. Using hyperbolic terms such as “Blacks should avoid this establishment if they care anything about their life” doesn’t really help his case, though. First of all, there aren’t too many actual Black people who use the term “blacks”. That’s very reminiscent of Trump’s infamous comment, “The blacks”. And combining that with “Queer”, another uncommonly used term (though it has gained usage in some younger black LGBTQ+ circles) might suggest that the reviewer might not even be Black himself. Maybe he posted it for a traveling friend? And secondly, hyperbolically making it seem like a bad sauna experience with staff was life-threatening seems a bit absurd — especially when there are far more actual life-threatening racist situations in the USA right now, involving guns, supermarkets, malls, schools and police. Also, as mentioned before, some traveling gringos (in Brazil, anyone not Brazilian, no matter the race, color or nationality, may be referred to as a “gringo”) act like real entitled assholes. USAmericans and Russians probably have the worst reps for this, although assholery can span the globe. But I especially hate to witness it from Americans when abroad, and even more especially for me, black and brown Americans, because believe it it not, it leaves a lasting global imprint. As just one example, last year, I was checking out at Point 202, and there was a small group (3) of Black American travelers in front of me and a few others. None of them spoke any Portuguese, but that didn’t stop one of them from raising his voice and arguing with the front desk attendants about their bill. Now, we all here have had “issues” at one sauna or another with an incorrect bill at checkout, so disagreement or pushback about the bill is not really the problem here. What made this one so problematic was the underlying fact pattern — the group seemed to have had a table near the stage and they hosted several garotos at the table who ordered food and drinks from a waiter while at the table with the clients, and at the end, the clients thought they shouldn’t have to pay for the garotos’ food and drink, since they ordered it! Yes, this is what these clowns were so outraged about — that they were responsible for the ordered food and drinks at their table consumed by the working boys that they had seated at their table with them! They tried every Americanism in the book — being loud, argumentative, aggressive, threatening to call the police for robbery (??), making sure they let everyone in earshot know how much supposed money they supposedly make and how supposedly influential they are with the US Embassy, demanding to speak to the manager / owner, blah blah blah. They read the American Obnoxiousness Handbook and studied it well! In the end, Junior came out and after arguing with him too, they ended up paying all of the bill, and they left in a huff, calling everyone in the place “crooks part of a scam”. This held up the entire checkout line for about 10-15 minutes, and everyone in line behind them — about 5 deep — including me, waited patiently. When they finally left, Junior just shook his head and said, “Gringos”. This is just one story of many in the book of “Clients Behaving Badly”. I’m not proclaiming that all garotos and sauna workers are perfect little angels either, but some of us in more privileged situations really do need to take accountability of our own behavior.

Thanks for posting this. Even with my NYT digital subscription, I somehow missed this article. This path is literally my 5:30 am Rio run / walk, when there.

Sucks to be them, I suppose. #BottomWorldProblems

For the third time, I’m not interested in responding to someone else’s bad experience, as they perceive it. I only posted this here for discussion’s sake, not to defend or attack the original reviewer’s position.

To be fair, there are a number of clientes that are not exactly favored in those spots. Verbosity is only one drawback.

I see what you did there. I doubt there are many melanated Québécois with an axe to grind for 202. And the infamous non-melanated one seems to like it very, very much.