quoththeraven

I didn't read all of Steve's post, but decriminalization and legalization are not the same thing. Decriminalization is the absence/repeal of government regulation, including laws against prostitution. Laws against pimping, brothels and possibly street solicitation would presumably remain, although the wording of the pimping laws are problematic because they criminalize renting housing to sex workers and sex worker collectives. Great Britain and New Zealand have this. Legalization affirmatively permits the exchange of sex for money, permits brothels and pimping, and regulates the conduct of business, including mandatory testing. The latter may sound good but it's a privacy nightmare. That's what exists in the Netherlands and Germany. It's exploitative, disempowers individual workers, and is ripe for sex trafficking and official corruption because the state is all up in sex work's business.

I don't get lesbian vibes from "Closer." I do from "Crush," including the group's leader, CL, brushing by herself in a fur coat at the end of the video. There must have been some mad greenscreen and editing to accomplish that. If you haven't watched it, you might want to check it out. The music itself is light years away from the first three groups also.

Please note we're talking about seducing str8 men, not about sex with gay and bisexual men.

If you think this division is inevitable, then God help us all. #NotAllGayMen

All of them or just 2NE1? There's a reason I mostly post boy band videos. Some of their MVs have very obvious homoerotic overtones.

They're all in their twenties, and that type of cutesy, "innocent" presentation is one of the more popular girl group concepts. Sometimes it seems like K-pop is drowning in cutesy and sexy concepts for girl groups and nothing else. Examples (this one has an obvious double entendre meaning based on the lyrics; Twice is currently the most popular K-pop girl group; some of them are underage) Closer by Oh My Girl is a truly innocent concept without the smarmy Lolitazation of Twice and is a beautiful song. The vocals are processed so they shimmer. Navillera by Gfriend, the group most cited as a template for Honey Popcorn's music and image. As a palate cleanser, 2NE1, my favorite girl group, now unfortunately disbanded:

On an issue solely within an administrator's purview? *smh*

Original - Austin Mahone Cover - SF9, with lots more hip thrusting and crotch-grabbing (see thumbnail) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPS0tePyO34

That's much more helpful to me than your previous post. I agree with you; however, that is also the basis of my concern because it can easily result in coercion of the sort @LivingnLA describes.

That was the impression I got. I realize now some of that was due to the terseness of the language.

I've seen a lot of criticism of his voice because he didn't train in a k-pop idol factory and his voice hasn't been processed to death in the course of recording. I agree with you, but his voice timbre more resembles Western pop singers '. International k-pop fans are supporters because of LGBTQ equality, which is why the MV has millions of views. It may say something that his debut and MV have received less hatred than the debut MV of girl group Honey Popcorn, which is comprised of three Japanese porn stars, one of whom is also a j-pop idol. (Porn is illegal in South Korea, but everyone seems to know the content of their porn videos.) There's nothing salacious about the song or video, but the idea that they're doing this using their porn star names and aren't giving up their porn careers is causing major pearl-clutching, up to and including a petition to the Blue House (South Korean equivalent to the White House) to ban the group.

What you describe is light years away from the impression I got from the original post.

I'm questioning the ethics of throwing money at men with no experience with men or sexual interest in them because to me it feels like a disrespectful erasure of boundaries. I'm sure there are ways to seduce them that aren't, but it's easy for me to see that as manipulative, which is the opposite of sex intended for the pleasure of both parties. Also, this is a strange thing to say to someone who's hired. I only have sex with people I'm attracted to also. I don't go around fishing for compliments on my appearance or sexual attractiveness. As far as my partner is concerned, my sole criterion is willingness. Willingness isn't usually an issue, though. It's more an issue relevant to men, yet they're socialized to ignore or minimize it. I get it if you think I'm being overly harsh or out of line commenting because I'm not a gay or bisexual man, but that's why I framed this as a series of questions to you all. It wasn't intended to start a discussion about me.

Not that I think it'll succeed, but trying to organize an across the board rate increase seems monopolistic. People should do what suits their situation best. By definition that isn't a one-size fits all endeavor.

That was refreshing. @stevenkesslar, here's a religious woman who might not consider herself a feminist who's in favor of decriminalization.

I like your (metaphorical) balls - an idiom I usually avoid because taken literally it makes no sense.

It never ceases to amaze me that people would rather ask participants than management.

The idea that Paterno's downfall was singlemindedness is pernicious. Willful blindness and an abdication of responsibility is complicity.

I was speaking in the context of an absence of same-sex sexual attraction.

Perhaps this is the most time efficient way of clearing stuff out? I have a friend who's moving to Sweden and weeding stuff out is a painstaking process. Liza's in the position of being able to outsource all that.

K-pop is heading toward gender-neutral songs and covers of songs that affirm same-sex love by not changing the pronouns when female artists cover songs by male artists and vice versa. There's also the debut song by out gay artist Holland, which was rated 19 (Korean age equivalent of 18) because of a same-sex kiss: The lyrics are roughly equivalent to "Somewhere" from West Side Story.

Why wouldn't you rather have sex with a guy who's actually attracted to guys? Is it the erotic power of seducing, converting or fucking a str8 guy? If money is the only basis for consent, is it really consensual?

Thank you, I am one of those, though I prefer to think of my impatience as time efficiency.

You should ask the cat who was mortally offended that I didn't help her out of the garbage can she fell into headfirst when she slid instead of landing on the counter because I was laughing too hard.

The gossip was too open, both about Levine's behavior and the Met bailing him out of tight spots, for this to be believable. Simply knowing, enabling and doing nothing is enough.