rentier

Bump
Just saw his ad in the LA/OC area

https://rentmasseur.com/TattedLatinoSD
Old closed thread with no info
https://www.companyofmen.org/topic/139575-411-on-tattedlatinosd-in-san-diego-oceanside/#comment-2073662


 

Met up with him, but the massage was only therapeutic. He's definitely NOT 6'4. I'd say maybe 6'2. We didn't discuss any deli services and was able to book him on the spot. He looks better in person, imo. I really dig the pornstache, but he's rockin a full beard at the moment. 
He's located in a quiet neighborhood with accesible parking, which is always a plus in LA. The massage was great and I appreciate Ralph taking the time to ease tension across my body. The session lasted the entire hour and Ralph made me feel comfortable in his cozy home. 
I would definitely consider booking him again and possibly asking for deli services next time. 

I agree with you about Lorenzo/Junior (https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/25720/). My session with him was also lacking. While he is attractive, he was not the most engaged in our session and was not the most fluid with his massage technique. 

I agree with musclvr, he's pretty mid. he's definitely a very attractive guy, so if that's enough for you, it might work. I prefer extras/personality over looks, and I prefer technique over extras.

I totally agree with rentier. Mark has been my go-to and benchmark for years. Wonderful massage and sense of camaraderie every time. Just go...
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
CarlosBear - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur CarlosBear in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... idk if Joe is still at Thai Wellness, but he's got top notch therapeutic technique and is worth it
JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
Pat_CMT - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
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RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur MisterJay in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Antonio has several locations he does appointments, including LA. he has a crew of protégés he trains and he does 4-handed sessions with these guys; stellar technique
Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
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Visiting AZ. Really great massage 5/5. Great technique (clearly trained), which is what I wanted. Such a sweet guy. Also hotter in person imo and great tools, rather thick lol (like woah). Very professional guy.
 
 

I wish David would put his masseurfinder ad back up, but some of the best massage I had when he was briefly in LA was by him. I don't know if he's less likely to do erotic/sensual now, but I get the sense that he might because he is back to seeing his own clients. I cannot understate his therapeutic technique!
This is his linktree with his IG and booking site: 
Transforming Wellness | Instagram | Linktree
LINKTR.EE Offer clients a customized service all in 1 session which puts me above the rest You can also see his expired RentMen profile: 
Afu_Hot - Male Escort, Gay massage - Long Beach | Rent.Men
RENT.MEN Afu_Hot Gay Escort in Long Beach, California, available for Gay Escorting,Modeling,Erotic Massage. | Find all the best...  

I wish David would put his masseurfinder ad back up, but some of the best massage I had when he was briefly in LA was by him. I don't know if he's less likely to do erotic/sensual now, but I get the sense that he might because he is back to seeing his own clients. I cannot understate his therapeutic technique!
This is his linktree with his IG and booking site: 
Transforming Wellness | Instagram | Linktree
LINKTR.EE Offer clients a customized service all in 1 session which puts me above the rest You can also see his expired RentMen profile: 
Afu_Hot - Male Escort, Gay massage - Long Beach | Rent.Men
RENT.MEN Afu_Hot Gay Escort in Long Beach, California, available for Gay Escorting,Modeling,Erotic Massage. | Find all the best...  

I had the same negative experience last week only it was with him and his partner (Massagebytwo). 
He agreed to let me shower before we got started and after arriving he hands me a wet towel he had just used.  Same towel was as to be used after the massage so that’s same towel used 3 times.
Tried to upsell about halfway through and yes, pics are dated and I definitely did not see anything during the session that even closely resembled Richard pic in the ads. 
DM me for more details if so inclined. 
 

Does anyone have experience with this gentleman?
TheArtofSensual - Male Massage & Bodywork in Long Beach, CA | RentMasseur
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Does anyone have experience with this gentleman?
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alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
CarlosBear - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur CarlosBear in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... idk if Joe is still at Thai Wellness, but he's got top notch therapeutic technique and is worth it
JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
Pat_CMT - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
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RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur MisterJay in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Antonio has several locations he does appointments, including LA. he has a crew of protégés he trains and he does 4-handed sessions with these guys; stellar technique
Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur NERDwBigHands in Mexico City, Mexico offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
CarlosBear - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur CarlosBear in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... idk if Joe is still at Thai Wellness, but he's got top notch therapeutic technique and is worth it
JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
Pat_CMT - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
MisterJay - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur MisterJay in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Antonio has several locations he does appointments, including LA. he has a crew of protégés he trains and he does 4-handed sessions with these guys; stellar technique
Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur NERDwBigHands in Mexico City, Mexico offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

Has anyone ever booked him before?
https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/49884/

No. The listed prices are what he quoted. 

Good rates too. 

@NoahMathews89 any upsells? 

Took one for the team. Highly recommend. Great skills and MT/HE.

it's on their onlyboysspamrtj IG account

alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
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JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
Pat_CMT - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
MisterJay - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur MisterJay in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Antonio has several locations he does appointments, including LA. he has a crew of protégés he trains and he does 4-handed sessions with these guys; stellar technique
Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur NERDwBigHands in Mexico City, Mexico offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
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JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
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RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
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Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur NERDwBigHands in Mexico City, Mexico offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
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RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur CarlosBear in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... idk if Joe is still at Thai Wellness, but he's got top notch therapeutic technique and is worth it
JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
Pat_CMT - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
MisterJay - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur MisterJay in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Antonio has several locations he does appointments, including LA. he has a crew of protégés he trains and he does 4-handed sessions with these guys; stellar technique
Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur NERDwBigHands in Mexico City, Mexico offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

alrighty, i'm closer to LB/OC, but there are some more central LA/SFV people i've seen i'd recommend. idk how many recs is too much, but i figure i might as well give you some data points. sorry in advance if it's excessive
@Tactile Daddy does a stupendous job! you can ask him directly on here
TactileDaddy - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TactileDaddy in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... David is awesome and i try to see him when i can. Good mixture of therapeutic/extras
TattoodBeef - Male Massage & Bodywork in Burbank, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur TattoodBeef in Burbank, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Carlos is similar to David, but perhaps more dom energy.
CarlosBear - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur CarlosBear in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... idk if Joe is still at Thai Wellness, but he's got top notch therapeutic technique and is worth it
JoeCA - Male Massage & Bodywork in West Hollywood, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur JoeCA in West Hollywood, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... if you're not really looking for extras, Pat is pretty great and he does a Thai style massage where you basically get stretched all kinds of ways and feels great
Pat_CMT - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Pat_CMT in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Jay has very good therapeutic technique and is pretty good with extras
MisterJay - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur MisterJay in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Antonio has several locations he does appointments, including LA. he has a crew of protégés he trains and he does 4-handed sessions with these guys; stellar technique
Antoniom - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur Antoniom in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic, sensual... Steven has wonderful technique. i've only seen him for therapeutic, but he's a very friendly guy and for sure offers extras, i just didn't opt for them
ExpertMassage - Male Massage & Bodywork in Los Angeles, CA | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur ExpertMassage in Los Angeles, CA offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in therapeutic... D visits LA often, and stays in different areas, but he's definitely worth experiencing. He truly melds erotic and therapeutic into a wonderful concoction. He'll be in LA 3/13-3/19
NERDwBigHands - Male Massage & Bodywork in Mexico City, Mexico | RentMasseur
RENTMASSEUR.COM Gay Masseur NERDwBigHands in Mexico City, Mexico offering a wide range of massages ⭐ experienced in...  

@LaCapGuy87 & @rentier I've messaged both a number of times about providers and they’re always very helpful