Between the BBQ and the pool, the party and the cocktails....

[+ quoththeraven]

QTR,

 

Wow. It must be very frustrating to wait so long. Wish I had known your dad, and discussed my experiences with Koreans, all very positive.

 

Thank you. I'm sure you would have found him interesting. Very matter of fact, didn't feel sorry for himself, and when he lost his job in the early 70s (just before my mother died; I'm convinced the stress had something to do with her death) when tech companies were shedding engineers by the thousands, his attitude was that he could take a job as a janitor. He just wanted to work. But what happened instead was he and a friend from work convinced the company to give him a better deal and help him find another job within the company, which he did. It was my call for him not to take the job in Research Triangle, NC and stay where we were instead.

 

I didn't realize there were Korean soldiers in Vietnam. But I'm not surprised, given the geographic proximity. South Korean soldiers are fierce. Hell, Korean soldiers are fierce, period.

 

I will probably be talking Kpop and Korean culture when I meet up with my daughter in Manhattan's Koreatown on Wednesday. My dad and his sisters grew up speaking it, but nobody learned to write it. Last I knew, my daughter was; my one remaining aunt (who's since died) and the cousin closest to her were flabbergasted.

 

Beautiful words, QTR.

 

I actually get to spend all next weekend with my favorite WW2 Memorial: my Dad.

 

Thanks, Steven. I'm glad your dad is still around for you to celebrate with. If you don't mind my asking, how old is he? (If you've already mentioned it in this thread, I will have egg on my face.) He's got to be pushing 90. If he were still alive, my dad would be 89, turning 90 in October.

 

My ex's father (born the same year as my dad) was in the rearguard infantry troops landing on the beaches of Normandy, so his war experience was far more unpleasant and traumatic than my father's.

[bigvalboy]

As the weekend comes to a close, I find myself just a little taken back by all the amazing stories, and heartfelt sentiments. As the OP, I thank you all for your contributions, and I salute all those that have gone before us, and wish that their souls pass in peace, and to all those that are serving now, strength and honor. This is one old man that is blessed to live in this country, all the rest will take care of itself in due time.

[marylander1940]

I am the daughter of a WWII vet who died three years ago. My father was originally turned down for service when he tried to enlist because his parents, while legal US residents, were citizens of Korea, a nation that had been occupied and oppressed by the Japanese since 1905, forced to use the Japanese language rather than Korean, and which forced Korean women to serve as sex slaves. Feeling that this was wrong, seeing as his parents hated the Japanese -- his mother crossed the street and spat in the gutter every time she passed someone of Japanese descent, as during the occupation she watched the Japanese execute her first husband, her father, and her brother -- he wrote to President Roosevelt explaining the situation. I don't know if that was the cause, but he was allowed to enlist and assigned to the Army Air Force.

 

He wanted to be a pilot, but they needed navigators. He grew up on a truck farm in or around Denver, where he took a semester off from school and running the farm at age 13 after his father broke his arm falling out of a fruit tree he was working on. Farmers know how to read the weather, so in many ways navigating was perfect. On one training flight, one of the other trainees got hopelessly lost and didn't know where they were. The instructor put my father in the seat next and asked him to get them back on course. He got within a degree or two of it, and was told he was finished training.

 

VE Day occurred not long after he arrived in Europe. His flight crew was scheduled to take what turned out to be the last bombing run in Europe, but another flight crew that only needed one more mission to be able to go home took the job instead and were shot down and became POWs. (As far as I know, they survived and were released later.) He was bumped from another flight by a navigator who needed the hours to get flight pay. That plane crashed into the side of a mountain and everyone on board died. There was no apparent indication of engine trouble, mechanical failure or poor weather conditions, so the crash appeared to be due to human error. My father contended that had he been on the flight, it would not have gone down. Knowing him, I'm sure he's right.

 

He also moved to the back of the plane when they landed at Gibraltar because the runway was so short and easy to overshoot. He spent most of his time in Europe post-VE Day shuttling refugees back home and mapping North Africa and left the military as a first lieutenant. I am sure he got called names, but he wouldn't admit to any discrimination and always let that kind of thing roll off his back. He was only 5' 6", but he knew what he was doing and got the job done, and I'll bet everyone he served with respected him. He also intimidated the shit out of people.

 

He had no truck with anything less than excellence (so Asian of him) and was the first person in his family to attend college (all his siblings were girls) courtesy of the GI Bill, graduating with a degree in engineering and accounting and then joining a major multinational corporation as an engineer, where he went on to create a product or process that qualified for patent coverage. He did not suffer stupidity or fools gladly, spent every day of his life reading the newspaper first thing in the morning, and was the only Republican, to my knowledge, in a family that liked to talk about politics. He nevertheless considered FDR a great man, though Ronald Reagan might have replaced him as my father's favorite president. (I know, shudder, but he was big on fiscal responsibility. Too bad the Republicans don't actually have any.) To my stepmother, his nickname (my mom died when I was 15) was "cocky bastard."

 

I love you, Dad. It's people like you who make this country great. I will take time to pause and remember you tomorrow. When I'm in DC this summer (whenever I actually get there), I'd like to visit the WWII memorial you visited a few years before you died. (I've already been to the memorial to the futile war that raged when I was a preteen and teen.) *salutes*

 

Fascinating story, thanks for sharing!

 

I only know WW2 and Korea were the last wars where there was a clear side with bad guys and another side with the good guys.

 

All conflicts ever since have been a mix of feelings, and in many cases I think by idealism or just by the evil doers of the military industrial complex we've done a mess, impose dictatorships while going to bed with other tyrants while spending a fortune of tax payers money.

 

And now after promising NATO wouldn't move an inch East, we're poking the Russian bear in his nose trying to bring Ukraine into.

 

[+ stevenkesslar]

If you don't mind my asking, how old is he?

 

BVB wants to bring this to closure, I know, but to answer your question, 93, and my Mom is 92. They met during WW2, dated, and they got married right after. The war was my Dad's chance to get off the farm, and the GI Bill gave him the opportunity to get an education and start a business. She's now in a nursing home with vascular dementia, and the agenda for me and my brothers this weekend is to help my Dad decide whether he wants to move out of their house and into an assisted living facility. And it is just the definition of sweet that he drives to the nursing home to visit her every day, and he still loves and is loyal to his partner in crime.

 

To tie in this "mid life crisis" thing, if I may, it has just been a blessing that I hit 50 just as they are getting to that age where things really do come to a close. We've always been close, but if for no other reason than time, I'm not sure I could have slowed down and gotten into their zone 5 years ago, when I was into traveling the world as a high class whore. Part of what has been really nice about the last few years is that I went from 48 going on 28 to 52 going on 72, and just tried to slow down and live with them in their world. And I got to experience my Dad not as Dad, but as friend, or partner in crime.

 

I am very, very, very lucky to have the parents I do and to be born in the USA, and I know it.

[+ stevenkesslar]

 

 

Holy shit, Batman! And here I thought I had verbal diarrhea. I ain't got nothing on Matt Damon.

[bigvalboy]

Fascinating story, thanks for sharing!

 

I only know WW2 and Korea were the last wars where there was a clear side with bad guys and another side with the good guys.

 

All conflicts ever since have been a mix of feelings, and in many cases I think by idealism or just by the evil doers of the military industrial complex we've done a mess, impose dictatorships while going to bed with other tyrants while spending a fortune of tax payers money.

 

And now after promising NATO wouldn't move an inch East, we're poking the Russian bear in his nose trying to bring Ukraine into.

 

 

I forgot how brilliant that movie was...I became a huge Matt Damon and Williams fan after that movie came out. Damon delivered that dialog beautifully.

[marylander1940]

Holy shit, Batman! And here I thought I had verbal diarrhea. I ain't got nothing on Matt Damon.

 

he's right on subject, no good wars after WW2 and Korea...

 

Where are the weapons of mass destruction?

 

Wasn't Saddam a friend when he attacked Iran after the marine barracks?

 

 

[bigvalboy]

BVB wants to bring this to closure,

 

Not at all, I'm coming to closure, that's all, and I wanted to take a minute to thank everyone before people started to disperse for the day and ready themselves for the work week.

 

Post away...some amazing stories today. You just never know what people know.

[marylander1940]

I forgot how brilliant that movie was...I became a huge Matt Damon and Williams fan after that movie came out.

 

Ike was such a great President... he created the military industrial complex by omission or action, and warned about it in his goodbye speech.

 

I like warning a friend I just made a mess in your house.

 

Btw, Ike doesn't even mentioned how jobs are spread out in such a way that even when a well known defective plane is being produced it can't be stopped.

 

[bigvalboy]

[+ stevenkesslar]

Where are the weapons of mass destruction?

 

Here's a quote that I have to consider coming from a veteran:

 

Some find the gotcha question being posed to the politicians — Knowing what we know now, would you have invaded? — an insult in itself. "Do-overs don't happen in real life," said Gregory Diacogiannis, 30, who served as an army sniper in Baghdad trying to spot militants laying roadside bombs and chased high-value targets in the city of Baqouba. "I have trouble with the question itself just because it lends itself to disregarding the sacrifices that have been made."

 

There's plenty of room to disagree on this, but I actually feel it disregards the sacrifice of Iraq veterans NOT to ask the question. My college professor and mentor was Paul Wellstone, who was the only US Senator running for re-election in 2002 to vote against authorizing the invasion of Iraq. I thought he was courageous and correct at the time. I still do. There are people who think the plane crash that killed him shortly before the election was a conspiracy, and he was being silenced. I don't believe that. I do believe he deserves as much respect as the veterans who fought in and died in and were injured in the war he tried to stop. RAND says that something like 20 % of veterans suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. I think we owe it to them to give them whatever support they need, and to think and debate long and hard before we do something like Iraq again. That is, in fact, what makes America so great, and what so many died for.

 

http://www.veteransandptsd.com/PTSD-statistics.html

 

http://www.pixteller.com/pdata/t/l-6892.jpg

[marylander1940]

Here's a quote that I have to consider coming from a veteran:

 

Some find the gotcha question being posed to the politicians — Knowing what we know now, would you have invaded? — an insult in itself. "Do-overs don't happen in real life," said Gregory Diacogiannis, 30, who served as an army sniper in Baghdad trying to spot militants laying roadside bombs and chased high-value targets in the city of Baqouba. "I have trouble with the question itself just because it lends itself to disregarding the sacrifices that have been made."

 

There's plenty of room to disagree on this, but I actually feel it disregards the sacrifice of Iraq veterans NOT to ask the question. My college professor and mentor was Paul Wellstone, who was the only US Senator running for re-election in 2002 to vote against authorizing the invasion of Iraq. I thought he was courageous and correct at the time. I still do. There are people who think the plane crash that killed him shortly before the election was a conspiracy, and he was being silenced. I don't believe that. I do believe he deserves as much respect as the veterans who fought in and died in and were injured in the war he tried to stop. RAND says that something like 20 % of veterans suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. I think we owe it to them to give them whatever support they need, and to think and debate long and hard before we do something like Iraq again. That is, in fact, what makes America so great, and what so many died for.

 

http://www.veteransandptsd.com/PTSD-statistics.html

 

http://www.pixteller.com/pdata/t/l-6892.jpg

 

yes, they all need to be respected and the way to do is to use military power when we should and for the right reason, politicians will argue about and historians too.

Veterans shouldn't be use to make critics shut up, let's remember W didn't even mentioned the word Iraq once when he inaugurated his presidential library.

[marylander1940]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO3ZVceNM2A

[+ stevenkesslar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO3ZVceNM2A

 

Thanks for posting that. I've watched and read a bunch of things, and in the end there's no definitive proof. This guy himself admits that his theory is "conjecture."

 

Having brought up Wellstone, I'll steer it off him and back to BVB's original point - remembering those who served.

 

Looking back, whether it's the veterans who died in the Iraq Wars or Paul Wellstone or the veterans of the war my Dad fought in - WW2 - most of whom have passed, they all deserve our respect and memories. What the guy in the video said about Paul is true: "Paul Wellstone was a great American. We lost a brave, courageous, noble human being." I suspect everyone who has lost a veteran feels exactly the same.

 

Looking forward, if there is a lesson, it's to be very careful to distinguish between conjecture and proof. We never found the WMD, and no one has proved that Wellstone was assassinated, as the guy in the video claims.

 

George Will, one of my favorite conservative intellectuals, just wrote an article that said this:

 

Tim Kaine, former Richmond mayor, former governor and former national chairman of the Democratic Party, represents the distressingly small minority of legislators interested in crafting an authorization for use of military force (AUMF). This is easier vowed than accomplished. As Obama's war strategy collapses, he should welcome company during his stumble through the gathering darkness. As always, however, his arrogance precludes collaboration with Congress. And Congress, knowing that governing involves choosing, which always involves making someone unhappy, is happy to leave governing to him.

I deeply hope Will is wrong about the ominous sounding "gathering darkness," but my reason to cite him is I agree with his sentiments 100 % - that real bravery is to debate when and why we use military force, and we can't afford to be either arrogant or just pass the buck. Both arrogance and passing the buck help explain what got us into Iraq, I think. We'll all honor the veterans who died if we don't do that again.

[marylander1940]

Thanks for posting that. I've watched and read a bunch of things, and in the end there's no definitive proof. This guy himself admits that his theory is "conjecture."

 

Having brought up Wellstone, I'll steer it off him and back to BVB's original point - remembering those who served.

 

Looking back, whether it's the veterans who died in the Iraq Wars or Paul Wellstone or the veterans of the war my Dad fought in - WW2 - most of whom have passed, they all deserve our respect and memories. What the guy in the video said about Paul is true: "Paul Wellstone was a great American. We lost a brave, courageous, noble human being." I suspect everyone who has lost a veteran feels exactly the same.

 

Looking forward, if there is a lesson, it's to be very careful to distinguish between conjecture and proof. We never found the WMD, and no one has proved that Wellstone was assassinated, as the guy in the video claims.

 

George Will, one of my favorite conservative intellectuals, just wrote an article that said this:

 

Tim Kaine, former Richmond mayor, former governor and former national chairman of the Democratic Party, represents the distressingly small minority of legislators interested in crafting an authorization for use of military force (AUMF). This is easier vowed than accomplished. As Obama's war strategy collapses, he should welcome company during his stumble through the gathering darkness. As always, however, his arrogance precludes collaboration with Congress. And Congress, knowing that governing involves choosing, which always involves making someone unhappy, is happy to leave governing to him.

I deeply hope Will is wrong about the ominous sounding "gathering darkness," but my reason to cite him is I agree with his sentiments 100 % - that real bravery is to debate when and why we use military force, and we can't afford to be either arrogant or just pass the buck. Both arrogance and passing the buck help explain what got us into Iraq, I think. We'll all honor the veterans who died if we don't do that again.

 

Well said!

 

http://38.media.tumblr.com/437a42c917e1d5e7f858358f456be2c0/tumblr_n6edsvWOu21r55d2io1_500.gif

 

[+ quoththeraven]

I have always been partial to that Santayana quote. If I'd ever decided to go on with/go back to teaching history, that would be the first thing I'd write on the board.

 

As the sun starts to go down on 2015's version of Memorial Day, best wishes, everyone, with goodwill toward all.

[AdamSmith]

As a hinge between the military-industrial-complex references above and back-to-work thoughts for tomorrow, Santayana also said:

 

Money is the petrol of life.