Academic Commits Suicide in Notre Dame Cathedral--Protest Against Legal Gay Marriage

[bcohen7719]

Is this what his Jesus would have wanted?

 

BC

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/farright-french-historian-78yearold-dominique-venner-commits-suicide-in-notre-dame-in-protest-against-gay-marriage-8625877.html

[Aarian]

Well, that's one opponent less.

[Frequentflier]

Because other than that he may have been against the legalization of gay marriage he was completely rational/sane - NOT ! There are people who can't avoid death like the terminally ill and soldiers killed in the line of duty and then we have nutcases like this guy who choose to die. No pity and no respect for this goofball.

[Lohengrin1979]

It just proves that death never really solves anything. This man's life is over and same sex marriage will continue to be more and more recognized over the years. I cannot imagine how such an issue leads an individual to blow their brains out. Not to mention the fact that he's Catholic. Catholics abhor suicide. You go straight to Hell for it. I do pity him as he could not have been in a right state of mind, whatever his "farewell letter" said.

 

Lohengrin

[rguer]

Is this what his Jesus would have wanted?

 

Jesus would have been against gay divorce. He didn't say anything about gay marriage.

[Phil_musc]

Jesus would have been against gay divorce. He didn't say anything about gay marriage.

 

You raise a very good point, rguer.

 

Actually, I'm glad to read that the US doesn't have a lock on Crazy. I used to think there was something in the water in the Pacific Northwest that led a lot of people to go off the deep end. But it seems that even in a country as civilized as France, you can still have people who just can't help themselves and go off half-cocked. Having read the whole article, I see that this man's suicide was really the climax of a life filled with eccentric ideas - after all, he defended the Vichy-collaborators among other things.

[seeker630]

Jesus would have been against gay divorce. He didn't say anything about gay marriage.

 

He didn't say anything about gay divorce either, did he?

 

What did he say about straight divorce? I ask because I don't know, but I think that if 2 people are unhappy in a marriage and both agree that divorce is best...then it is, generally.

[Phil_musc]

He didn't say anything about gay divorce either, did he?

 

What did he say about straight divorce? I ask because I don't know, but I think that if 2 people are unhappy in a marriage and both agree that divorce is best...then it is, generally.

 

My money says that Jesus never said anything about divorce. Period. It was probably Saint Paul or one of those early church guys (probably a Pope of some sort) who nixed divorce and condemned all those unhappily married people to live out their days in a hellish situation. "You'll get your reward in Heaven." Some nonsense like that - the sort of thing that would lead to spousal or child abuse. Leviticus probably was no divorce advocate either, come to think of it. Let's all lift our Bombay Sapphires in a toast to those wise old men from yesteryear whose legacy of anti-sexuality and anti-humanity we live with to this day.

[Diverdan]

Jesus treated everyone with love and compassion... consider how he treated the prostitutes of his day...unfortunately many distort the gospel for their own ends and miss his central teachings of love, forgiveness, tolerance. Most the the "probitions" that are associated with christianity come from the writings of Paul and other apostles or are references to the Old Testament, and are most often taken out of their historical context. I am sorry for this man who was so mentally disturbed. He will only be long remembered as the nut case who committed suicide in Notre Dame Cathedral, and likely nothing else.

[Steven_Draker]

even in a country as civilized as France

 

http://www.france24.com/en/files/imagecache/france24_169_large/article/image/printemps-francais-m_0.jpg

 

http://www.france24.com/en/files/element_multimedia/image/femen-gas-2.jpg

 

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/French-Marriage-Protest-4-23-13.jpg

 

The far right movement Le Printemps français (French Spring) has promised more violence, unless President Hollande decides to ban the new anti-gay marriage protest this coming Sunday.

[rguer]

He didn't say anything about gay divorce either, did he?

 

What did he say about straight divorce? I ask because I don't know, but I think that if 2 people are unhappy in a marriage and both agree that divorce is best...then it is, generally.

 

As with everything in the bible, the details are controversial, but it's safe to say he was against it.

 

I agree with philmusc that Paul just made stuff up, but even without Paul there are verses where Jesus appears to condemn divorce.

 

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/divorce.html

 

http://cslr.law.emory.edu/news/news-story/headline/what-did-jesus-really-say-about-marriage-and-divorce/

[seeker630]

As with everything in the bible, the details are controversial, but it's safe to say he was against it.

 

I agree with philmusc that Paul just made stuff up, but even without Paul there are verses where Jesus appears to condemn divorce.

 

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/divorce.html

 

http://cslr.law.emory.edu/news/news-story/headline/what-did-jesus-really-say-about-marriage-and-divorce/

 

Thanks for the links. The context of the quotes seems to be a husband 'putting aside' an 'unwanted' wife. I am less certain Jesus would disapprove of a wife divorcing an abusive husband, for example.

 

But we're all entitled to our own interpretations.

[Guest]

http://www.france24.com/en/files/imagecache/france24_169_large/article/image/printemps-francais-m_0.jpg

 

 

The far right movement Le Printemps français (French Spring) has promised more violence, unless President Hollande decides to ban the new anti-gay marriage protest this coming Sunday.

 

Civilized? The French have a long tradition of trying to achieve political ends through violence and intimidation rather than through the democratic process. And the French eagerly tolerate such behavior.

[Steven_Draker]

The French have a long tradition of trying to achieve political ends through violence and intimidation rather than through the democratic process.

 

Well, the same-sex marriage in France was achieved through the democratic process ...

 

 

"The upper house of the French parliament, the Senate, on Tuesday evening approved the first and most crucial article of a draft law that would legalize same-sex marriage in France.

 

After more than 10 hours of debate, the Senate adopted Article 1 by a vote of 179-157 –that article eliminates opposite gender as a condition of the right to marriage.

 

France's president has signed into law a controversial bill making the country the ninth in Europe, and 14th globally, to legalise gay marriage.

 

After a tortured debate, the same-sex marriage and adoption bill was adopted by France's Senate and National Assembly last month.

 

The bill was quickly challenged on constitutional grounds by the main right-wing opposition UMP party of former president Nicolas Sarkozy.

 

But the Constitutional Council ruled on Friday that same-sex marriage "did not run contrary to any constitutional principles," and that it did not infringe on "basic rights or liberties or national sovereignty".

[bcohen7719]

Is this what his Jesus would have wanted?

 

BC

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/farright-french-historian-78yearold-dominique-venner-commits-suicide-in-notre-dame-in-protest-against-gay-marriage-8625877.html

 

Here's a video news report...

 

BC

 

[video=youtube;NJ8xf4CUybQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ8xf4CUybQ

[Phil_musc]

As with everything in the bible, the details are controversial, but it's safe to say he was against it.

 

I agree with philmusc that Paul just made stuff up, but even without Paul there are verses where Jesus appears to condemn divorce.

 

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/divorce.html

 

http://cslr.law.emory.edu/news/news-story/headline/what-did-jesus-really-say-about-marriage-and-divorce/

 

Well gosh, I stand corrected. Apparently Jesus spoke any number of times on marriage and divorce, and pretty restrictively too. Or at least Matthew wrote thusly and quoted him copiously. But then who actually wrote the Book of Matthew and just how contemporaneously with Jesus' comments were these quotes entered into posterity? Who were the writings intended for, what purpose were they written, etc.? Call me silly but I get nervous whenever the Bible is quoted as a reason for why something should or should not be a law - just something about the alleged separation of church and state that we claim to have in the US.

[rguer]

But then who actually wrote the Book of Matthew and just how contemporaneously with Jesus' comments were these quotes entered into posterity?

 

We don't have any objective reason to think that anything in any part of the New Testament is true. If you doubt Matthew, you might as well doubt the other gospels also.

 

But whether you think it's fiction or not, you would have to admit that it has had a strong impact on how many people think. Or more precisely, organized religion's interpretation has had a strong impact.

[Phil_musc]

We don't have any objective reason to think that anything in any part of the New Testament is true. If you doubt Matthew, you might as well doubt the other gospels also.

 

But whether you think it's fiction or not, you would have to admit that it has had a strong impact on how many people think. Or more precisely, organized religion's interpretation has had a strong impact.

 

It's not that I doubt Matthew per se, but my questions about who actually wrote it, when was it written, who was the intended reader(s), and who picked it for inclusion in the final version of what went into the Bible - these are all questions that some people never consider. And then when these sacred writings are posted as justification for why some behaviors are off-limits and why a group of people (gay couples) shouldn't have equal status for their relationships - well that just is appalling in a country that claims to have separation of church and state.