My New opinion on M4RN client reviews

[Guest RyanCade]

So M4RN client reviews started out as something I was seriously oppose to. They are generic and very simple but could be used by bad escorts with ill intentions. HOWEVER, I believe 100% that they just saved me from a bad encounter. One escort may post a bad review on a client just to be nasty, but the client who just emailed me has not 1 not 2 but 4 different escorts who gave him the same poor rating. all from different cities and I was unaware that the escorts are not cloaked, their ad number is provided and you can contact them and inquire as to the problem. More escorts should be doing this. Lets face it, if a man pisses off FOUR escorts, I don't want to see him, and thank god for the warning on this one. Heads up M4RN even kept up with the various emails this client used. I think they are harmless unless they shouldn't be. There is no text just yes and no generic ratings.

[Boston Guy]

I was not aware that M4RN allowed escorts to review clients. Obviously, this is not a feature that clients are able to access but I assume it's available to all escorts. Out of curiosity, I sent an email to an escort who I know well and asked him if he made use of the feature. His response was "I didn't even know that we could do that." Also, I wonder how M4RN could possibly keep track of different emails, unless escorts are using a client's phone number as a way to identify a client. If so, as a client, I think that would seriously piss me off, since I would consider giving my phone number to any third party or in any way connecting me to a searchable database to be a very great violation of my privacy. If I was aware that an escort was doing this, I would never -- ever -- hire him again. I would also consider warning other clients, too.

 

BG

[Guest RyanCade]

I understand your pioint of view to an extent. A few things to consider are. 1. Escorts can't just browse through reviews, as you can ours. You must have already been provided the phone number or email by the client. 2. The review areas cover basic honesty and respect issues. "Did he represent himself accurately?" "Did he treat you like a professional?" "Would you see him again?" 3. If you have responded to one of our ads you most likely have already registered the same information that you provided us, with the actual site.

 

The biggest thing I would ask you to consider is that, there are very few client reviews, my guess is, escorts don't write good reviews. The only reason I would ever have to do a review is if I have been violated in some way, ripped off, or treated VERY disrespectfully. And If I have been treated that way should the next professional walk blindly into a known bad situation. 4 very well reviewed escorts saved me from a situation today. I am grateful, because instead my dog and I sun bathed on a rock by the river. I could have been trying to diplomatically get out of a sticky situation for fear of getting a bad review, by someone who disrespects or rips off escorts, with no regard for their value as a human or their livelihood.

 

So where is the safety manual for the escort. We walk into new unfamiliar rooms with unfamiliar and un-reviewed clients, if there is a problem, don't we deserve to be warned?

 

With utmost respect

-RyanCade-

[Guest mvan1]

I was not aware that M4RN allowed escorts to review clients. Obviously, this is not a feature that clients are able to access but I assume it's available to all escorts.

 

edit edit

 

If so, as a client, I think that would seriously piss me off, since I would consider giving my phone number to any third party or in any way connecting me to a searchable database to be a very great violation of my privacy. If I was aware that an escort was doing this, I would never -- ever -- hire him again. I would also consider warning other clients, too.

 

I agree with you 100%. I think this sort of tactic is sneaky and betrays the confidence between a client and an escort.

 

Not a pretty picture by any means

 

-

[josephga]

I think it depends on the situation. You take a escort that steals from a client or is verbally or physically abusive to a client. A negative review is always encouraged warning posted all over the place. Why doesn't a escort deserve the same rights to warn others when they are disrespected or miss treated by some trash of a client..

[Guest RyanCade]

Clients & Escorts ONE MORE VALUABLE THAN THE OTHER? HUH?

 

I agree with you 100%. I think this sort of tactic is sneaky and betrays the confidence between a client and an escort.

 

Not a pretty picture by any means

 

-

 

Let me first say, that maybe there is some confusion here. A CLIENT is someone who respects me and treats me as a professional. A CLIENT is also someone who cares about my safety and well being as well as me having great encounters with amazing people.

 

What is daddys reviews set up for? It's for protecting clients from bad experiences and helping them make good selections with compatible escorts.

 

What in Gods name makes you think that an escort is not entitled to the same?

 

When and How did you and your money become more important than another human beings safety and security?

 

Why should a man who rips off an escort or abuses them in some way or even manipulate them out of services or time be afforded such treasured confidentiality?

 

Why should an escort be held accountable for each and every action, intentional or not, justified or not and a rude human being with no respect or manners should not?

 

Is it really all about the Gold? Escorts are bashed for being money grubbers, and many other reasons, accused of heartlessly taking your money and having no remorse for doing so. Apparently that Gold is pretty important to you as well, you have placed it and YOUR needs over that of a fellow human being with feelings and needs just like yours.

 

The escorts can't hide behind some phony screen name and write reviews, You are provided with the reviewing escorts ad number which has their photos and contact info. AGAIN Escorts being held accountable.

 

I am truly sorry that you feel the way you do, to me it's sad. I love my job and I love people, but this mentality absolutely disgusts me.

 

And if that bothers you PLEASE don't hire me.

[MsGuy]

Joe, I doubt either you or RyanCade is gonna have much luck getting many ganders here to agree that "What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander." Goes with the territory.

[Guest mvan1]

 

I think it depends on the situation. You take a escort that steals from a client or is verbally or physically abusive to a client. A negative review is always encouraged warning posted all over the place. Why doesn't a escort deserve the same rights to warn others when they are disrespected or miss treated by some trash of a client..

 

 

 

You are mixing apples with oranges.

 

A client generally does not advertise nor include a photo of himself when soliciting an escort. Most clients prefer to remain anonymous.

 

On the other hand, an escort usually uses a bogus name in advertisements. Most escort advertisements include photos of themselves and details of what sexual activities are part of their routine.

 

If a client and an escort agree and meet, the escort can readily determine the true identity of the client through various ways. The client cannot do the same thing.

 

This opens up potential abuse if an escort has unrealistic expectations from a client. If a scorned escort enters a client's real name and personal information in a data base, no good can come of it.

 

You ask why an escort should not have the same information or ability to report on a client. The answer should be obvious.

[Guest RyanCade]

Hi MSGUY so nice of you to join the discussuion. The last time you posted on one iof my threads it was of the same nature. I am fully aware of how you feel. Do you remember asking me to answer a question that you noted I might hesitate to answer? and then telling me not to answer it after I agreed, telling me that If I told the truth I would be dancing in a mind field and if I lied it would be boring? Your position on this is clear. sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander when there is deception, dishonesty, abuse and disrespect involved, but not otherwise.

[Guest mvan1]

 

Let me first say, that maybe there is some confusion here. A CLIENT is someone who respects me and treats me as a professional. A CLIENT is also someone who cares about my safety and well being as well as me having great encounters with amazing people.

 

What is daddys reviews set up for? It's for protecting clients from bad experiences and helping them make good selections with compatible escorts.

 

What in Gods name makes you think that an escort is not entitled to the same?

 

When and How did you and your money become more important than another human beings safety and security?

 

Why should a man who rips off an escort or abuses them in some way or even manipulate them out of services or time be afforded such treasured confidentiality?

 

Why should an escort be held accountable for each and every action, intentional or not, justified or not and a rude human being with no respect or manners should not?

 

Is it really all about the Gold? Escorts are bashed for being money grubbers, and many other reasons, accused of heartlessly taking your money and having no remorse for doing so. Apparently that Gold is pretty important to you as well, you have placed it and YOUR needs over that of a fellow human being with feelings and needs just like yours.

 

The escorts can't hide behind some phony screen name and write reviews, You are provided with the reviewing escorts ad number which has their photos and contact info. AGAIN Escorts being held accountable.

 

I am truly sorry that you feel the way you do, to me it's sad. I love my job and I love people, but this mentality absolutely disgusts me.

 

And if that bothers you PLEASE don't hire me.

 

 

Oh, my! You certainly expressed a lot of anger in your post. Your fabricated theories expressed in response to what I wrote have no basis to the subject at hand.

 

Reading back over many of your other posts made on this site demonstrates a clear pattern of anger in many of your prior responses to posters who do not agree with you.

 

As to my hiring you, do not be concerned. Based on your angry posts and a negative review that was written about you by another reviewer, it is obvious that my hiring schedule would never coincide with someone so hostile and angry.

-

[Guest RyanCade]

You are mixing apples with oranges.

 

A client generally does not advertise nor include a photo of himself when soliciting an escort. Most clients prefer to remain anonymous. and they are still anonymous except to other escorts who are being considered for hire. they must already have a number or email to access a clients review.

 

On the other hand, an escort usually uses a bogus name in advertisements. Most escort advertisements include photos of themselves and details of what sexual activities are part of their routine. Clients use bogus names as well and often google voice telephone numbers and many have MULTIPLE email addresses

 

If a client and an escort agree and meet, the escort can readily determine the true identity of the client through various ways. The client cannot do the same thing. AND why not?

 

This opens up potential abuse if an escort has unrealistic expectations from a client. If a scorned escort enters a client's real name and personal information in a data base, no good can come of it How does it open up escorts for abuse that there is no warning system or review system for abusers and thief's are held accountable by

You ask why an escort should not have the same information or ability to report on a client. The answer should be obvious.

and just what makes it so obvious may I ask? that you are respectable and deserve tenderness and coddling and the escort is trash to be used by you and discarded? So what if his next "client" drugs him and rapes him. what makes that so????

[Guest RyanCade]

Sir I am not hostile I am real. I am passionate about a lot of things but respect and fair treatment of my fellow man is on the top. My posts are driven by that passion to stand for what is right. if it costs me "gold" or not. I will continue to stand for what I believe in my heart to be true. Escorts can misbehave but so can many folks that hire them... Where are the checks and balances?

[kjun]

I'm with you Ryan. I believe that escorts should have a way to identify the bad guys. While I think there are only a few of them, there should be a way for escorts to protect themselves from rude, crazy or mean people.

[Boston Guy]

I've hired escorts for years. When I do, I treat them with the same respect and dignity that I treat anyone in my life. I decided long ago that life is too short to have all sorts of different rules for different groups of people, so I treat everyone in the manner in which I hope to be treated.

 

If an escort starts advertising for clients, he has made a decision to become quasi-public. For some, that's a difficult decision and some escorts never do it, relying on word of mouth throughout their entire career. But most escorts do advertise for clients at least occasionally and provide some means of contact. That is their decision.

 

Clients, on the other hand, are generally terribly concerned with privacy. We should all be concerned with security but that's different than privacy. If I give my phone number to an escort, I expect him to treat that information with care. If I end up disclosing my name, then I expect him to treat that information with care and the same is true with my email address and any personal information that I tell him. I do not expect that the act of hiring an escort will be tantamount to having my personal information disclosed to the world.

 

A few months ago, I contacted an escort who I hadn't seen for several months. I asked him what his current rates were. In a return email, he listed several dates when we had gotten together, the hotels and room numbers that I'd been in, and the amount that I'd paid him on each occasion. Needless to say, I did not hire him and will not hire him again. I enjoy his company but cannot accept the possibility that he is treating my information with some sort of reckless abandon.

 

Worse, I hired an escort a couple of months ago who, over the course of an evening, described close to ten of his recent clients, in some instances with enough information for me to guess exactly who he was talking about. I could only wonder what he'd say about me to the next client he saw.

 

Ryan, I am certainly sympathetic to the security concerns that both clients and escorts face. I think we all need to be very careful when meeting people that we haven't met before, for obvious reasons. However, the fact that we need to be careful does not mean that we can treat each other's personal information with abandon. If I give you my phone number to call me at, that does not mean that I authorize you to use it as a database key in which you can describe me to other escorts. I understand that the database doesn't have that capability at the moment but these things never go backwards in capability, only forward. One can easily envision an updated version of the client review database that allows escorts to describe encounters in a manner that truly exposes clients to not only loss of control of their personal information but also potentially to criminal liability if the database ends up in the hands of the police in some jurisdiction.

 

I think this goes both ways. If you give me your private phone number, which is not advertised anywhere, I will treat it with the same care that I treat any confidential information. The same is true with your real name if you choose to tell me that or any other personal information. I will not store that information in any way that indicates that the owner is an escort nor will I keep details of my encounters with escorts in a file, spreadsheet or database.

 

Information privacy is often talked about but more often treated carelessly. The kind of information described in the OP -- a database of client reviews that brings together any known email addresses used by a client along with, presumably, one or more phone numbers -- comes close to being a personally identifying collection of information. Give me someone's phone number and email address and I can know a lot about them in a very short period of time. Now tell me that they've hired escorts and, for some people, we just made them a potential target of blackmail or one or more scams. Or consider an escort looking through the reviews who says "Hmmm.... here's a guy in Chicago who has hired several Chicago escorts. Maybe I should text him or call him and see if he wants to get together with me." The potential for abuse is very, very great -- so great that if I knew that an escort I was contemplating hiring was going to treat my personal information in this way it would be far more than sufficient reason not to hire him.

 

Ryan, you seem to assume that someone who is against the idea of a client review database must therefore have no concern for the security of escorts. That's a non sequitur and, at least in my case, not correct in the slightest. We all should be concerned about the safety and security of everyone in our lives. I also fail to see how this has to do with money in way at all. You've mentioned "GOLD" several times but I don't see any connection to this topic at all. I, at least, am discussing how I believe private information should be handled and cared for by both escorts and clients alike. It has nothing to do with money and a great deal to do with treating people with respect.

 

BG

[Guest mvan1]

Hello Boston guy,

 

I am impressed with your response to Ryan. What you wrote mirrors my own thoughts in many ways.

 

Thanks for being "the voice of reason" when such a voice is needed in this sensitive subject matter.

-

[Guest RyanCade]

BG I never felt that you did not value the escorts safety or that you have ever treated one in an inappropriate manner. I actually have a lot of respect for you and hav e considered you one of my favorite posters, as I love to read your posts. They are above average to say the least. But I feel you jumped the gun and came across a bit harsh. I was happy to have been saved from a situation today and it made me feel good. The process in place only seems to be to protect escorts and not disclose inappropriately client info. I was thrilled at that aspect actually. and as I said if you treat escorts as you do, you should never have to worry about being affected by it. and if an escort posts a review thier profile is attached. the four escorts who used it on the potential client I was considered by, seem to have done so in the appropriate manner. it was useful to me as a professional. Escorts aren't gonna tell the competition what a great client you are. Bad people don't deserve the same treatment you do. I insist on differentiating "client" from bad people who just like escorts do not deserve to have their wrong doing cloaked behind professional/client confidentiality.

[raife]

Escorts having their own client blacklist

 

Ryan,

 

I agree completely with your position. As a long term client, I very much support escorts' need to protect themselves and their occupation from fakes, flakes, scammers, thieves and predators. I think that anyone who plays dirty in what is essentially a trust relationship gives up their expectation of privacy; and a blacklist is the cleanest, most efficient method of self-policing available. There are blacklists running on the client side, I'm very pleased to hear that escorts keep each others' counsel in this regard as well. I just hope you are kind to the guys who are honest brokers and genuinely respect your professionalism.

 

I can see how some less-than-scrupulous escorts could abuse the system by adding their generous regulars to the blacklist to lessen the chances that these prized clients would hook up with a competitor, just as some of these guys might submit bad reviews of the competition on sites like this one. It makes sense for all of us to try and read between the lines of these public reviews as much as possible, many of them are complete shit, but in your particular scenario if four other escorts red-carded the guy, sounds like a pretty cut and dry indicator of a jackass to be avoided. Here's hoping the site helps you guys weed out the jerks and improve customer relations!

[orbital sander]

I can see both sides of the issue, security and confidentiality are important. Unfortunately, I know that there are escorts who ARE not responsible that use M4RN and I would not trust them at all to keep client information private. I am glad this issue has come to light. I am sure Ryan that you are a great guy, but not everyone is on M4RN. Do they, (M4RN) verify the "bad client" information? It would seem that this slope gets mighty slippery fast. My personal choice would be to not ever hire anyone who I ever felt gave out my personal information. Could you imaging if any major retailers started a "bad client" database and shared that information with other retailers? The lawyers would have a field day with that one. Since I pay, my business absolutely would have to go elsewhere.

[Guest RyanCade]

I've hired escorts for years. When I do, I treat them with the same respect and dignity that I treat anyone in my life. I decided long ago that life is too short to have all sorts of different rules for different groups of people, so I treat everyone in the manner in which I hope to be treated.

 

If an escort starts advertising for clients, he has made a decision to become quasi-public. For some, that's a difficult decision and some escorts never do it, relying on word of mouth throughout their entire career. But most escorts do advertise for clients at least occasionally and provide some means of contact. That is their decision.

 

Clients, on the other hand, are generally terribly concerned with privacy. We should all be concerned with security but that's different than privacy. If I give my phone number to an escort, I expect him to treat that information with care. If I end up disclosing my name, then I expect him to treat that information with care and the same is true with my email address and any personal information that I tell him. I do not expect that the act of hiring an escort will be tantamount to having my personal information disclosed to the world.

 

A few months ago, I contacted an escort who I hadn't seen for several months. I asked him what his current rates were. In a return email, he listed several dates when we had gotten together, the hotels and room numbers that I'd been in, and the amount that I'd paid him on each occasion. Needless to say, I did not hire him and will not hire him again. I enjoy his company but cannot accept the possibility that he is treating my information with some sort of reckless abandon.

 

Worse, I hired an escort a couple of months ago who, over the course of an evening, described close to ten of his recent clients, in some instances with enough information for me to guess exactly who he was talking about. I could only wonder what he'd say about me to the next client he saw.

 

Ryan, I am certainly sympathetic to the security concerns that both clients and escorts face. I think we all need to be very careful when meeting people that we haven't met before, for obvious reasons. However, the fact that we need to be careful does not mean that we can treat each other's personal information with abandon. If I give you my phone number to call me at, that does not mean that I authorize you to use it as a database key in which you can describe me to other escorts. I understand that the database doesn't have that capability at the moment but these things never go backwards in capability, only forward. One can easily envision an updated version of the client review database that allows escorts to describe encounters in a manner that truly exposes clients to not only loss of control of their personal information but also potentially to criminal liability if the database ends up in the hands of the police in some jurisdiction.

 

I think this goes both ways. If you give me your private phone number, which is not advertised anywhere, I will treat it with the same care that I treat any confidential information. The same is true with your real name if you choose to tell me that or any other personal information. I will not store that information in any way that indicates that the owner is an escort nor will I keep details of my encounters with escorts in a file, spreadsheet or database.

 

Information privacy is often talked about but more often treated carelessly. The kind of information described in the OP -- a database of client reviews that brings together any known email addresses used by a client along with, presumably, one or more phone numbers -- comes close to being a personally identifying collection of information. Give me someone's phone number and email address and I can know a lot about them in a very short period of time. Now tell me that they've hired escorts and, for some people, we just made them a potential target of blackmail or one or more scams. Or consider an escort looking through the reviews who says "Hmmm.... here's a guy in Chicago who has hired several Chicago escorts. Maybe I should text him or call him and see if he wants to get together with me." The potential for abuse is very, very great -- so great that if I knew that an escort I was contemplating hiring was going to treat my personal information in this way it would be far more than sufficient reason not to hire him.

 

Ryan, you seem to assume that someone who is against the idea of a client review database must therefore have no concern for the security of escorts. That's a non sequitur and, at least in my case, not correct in the slightest. We all should be concerned about the safety and security of everyone in our lives. I also fail to see how this has to do with money in way at all. You've mentioned "GOLD" several times but I don't see any connection to this topic at all. I, at least, am discussing how I believe private information should be handled and cared for by both escorts and clients alike. It has nothing to do with money and a great deal to do with treating people with respect.

 

BG

 

BG I just thought of an example to maybe help clarify my position a bit. It seems that my belief in the right of an escort to expose a crook is mistaken for a belief that sharing and breaching confidentiality between me and my clients.

 

If an escort comes to your place and you pick up a bit of information about him and you guys don't have a great time but you got through it. thats one situation. You may write a review to say you didn't enjoy yourself, but most likely if it just didn't click you are gonna leave it alone.

 

Now if an escort comes to your place high as a kite and steels your wallet. You would feel obligated to warn your friends and every other potential victim of the danger. Now before he did this to you he was deserving of respect and consideration. AFTER and this is my opinion, he is a dangerous piece of S*** who doesn't deserve the opportunity to victimize not one more client. Expose him however you can.

 

The client review section is a bit more tactful than that. It only shows reviews to an escort who ALREADY has your contact info. He cannot obtain it from the reviews he has to provide it. there is no browsing client reviews. M4RN put that system in place for obvious reasons, many of which you mentioned. If a person does something terrible or is very disrespectful, exposing his reviews to a escort HE is considering and has provided with HIS contact info is completely acceptable.

 

Now to further clarify my position, I was reviewed by a client and it was referenced in this thread. That bothered me and to me was an unfair move, but I would not ever consider putting that mans name on any list or sharing his information with anyone. We are both imperfect people and WE had a bad encounter. It would be wrong for me to do anything in "retaliation" There are places where escorts bash clients and write text reviews. I think they are disgustingly rude and I would never participate. It's inappropriate as well as unprofessional. This BG in my eyes is very different. We don't have to agree, I am cool with that. But my clients information is safe with me, hell I turn my computer off if I go to the bathroom with another client in the room to protect the info it may contain.

 

Thank you for responding the way you did in your last post. It speaks volumes with regard to your character and integrity. I have no ill will toward you.

[Boston Guy]

If an escort comes to your place and you pick up a bit of information about him and you guys don't have a great time but you got through it. thats one situation. You may write a review to say you didn't enjoy yourself, but most likely if it just didn't click you are gonna leave it alone.

 

Ryan, thank you for your kind words.

 

In the part of your reply that I quote, above, you write "[y]ou may write a review...". In fact, I won't: I've never written a review of an escort and I never will. If you look back in the history of this Message Center, you'll find that I was against the idea of escort reviews way back at the beginning, twelve years ago or so. I was convinced then and remain convinced that the review process is fraught with problems.

 

* It is too easily manipulated by unscrupulous clients and unscrupulous escorts

* It's inaccurate because it's almost never a random cross-section of an escort's client base

* Reviews are often written to be more titillating than objective

* Escorts who have not agreed to be reviewed are reviewed anyway

 

This was an argument that I was destined to lose. I do understand that Daddy (and HooBoy before him) strives mightily to address the problems and create the best possible set of reviews that he can. I also understand that many people like the reviews and find them valuable. I accept that but I won't write reviews because that would be hypocritical.

 

I have always tried to contribute what little I could through this Message Center. I think that here, over time, we get a sense of one another and build some credibility. Then, if someone we know says "I had a real problem last night", it has meaning and is believable. Unfortunately, the current set of rules forbids even minimal reviews in the Message Center, so that capability is lost.

 

One of the biggest concerns that I had at the very beginning was for the escort who wasn't advertising and wasn't seeking publicity. Over the years, I've hired some very nice guys who were basically college seniors trying to make a little money on the side. They weren't on Rentboy or M4RN or any other site. But I've seen examples where someone like this would be reviewed by some eager client and I think it's an extremely unfair situation. A poor kid who was basically conducting private encounters with a few clients suddenly finds himself reviewed in an extremely public site. If I were that person, I'd be horrified and I think rightly so.

 

There is a very slippery slope when you start reviewing people on the basis of these encounters and I don't like it very much at all. I like blacklists even less because the problems with blacklists are easily greater in number and severity. One can easily and quickly come up with a half-dozen scenarios in which an escort might decide to blacklist a client, most of which could easily be bogus or simply wrong. You said that you would only decide to blacklist someone if they failed your standards for being a "client". What's to say that the next escort has the same standards? Suppose they're in a bad mood, didn't really like the last client very much and decide to blacklist them.

 

Suddenly, some poor guy doesn't know why he can't get any escorts to call him back and he's unaware and will likely always be unaware that he's been blacklisted by someone who may simply not like him. Do some research and see if you can find an example of a blacklist that worked successfully and was well-regarded. Give yourself plenty of time because you'll need it.

 

BG

[orbital sander]

Ryan, thank you for your kind words.

 

In the part of your reply that I quote, above, you write "[y]ou may write a review...". In fact, I won't: I've never written a review of an escort and I never will. If you look back in the history of this Message Center, you'll find that I was against the idea of escort reviews way back at the beginning, twelve years ago or so. I was convinced then and remain convinced that the review process is fraught with problems.

 

* It is too easily manipulated by unscrupulous clients and unscrupulous escorts

* It's inaccurate because it's almost never a random cross-section of an escort's client base

* Reviews are often written to be more titillating than objective

* Escorts who have not agreed to be reviewed are reviewed anyway

 

This was an argument that I was destined to lose. I do understand that Daddy (and HooBoy before him) strives mightily to address the problems and create the best possible set of reviews that he can. I also understand that many people like the reviews and find them valuable. I accept that but I won't write reviews because that would be hypocritical.

 

I have always tried to contribute what little I could through this Message Center. I think that here, over time, we get a sense of one another and build some credibility. Then, if someone we know says "I had a real problem last night", it has meaning and is believable. Unfortunately, the current set of rules forbids even minimal reviews in the Message Center, so that capability is lost.

 

One of the biggest concerns that I had at the very beginning was for the escort who wasn't advertising and wasn't seeking publicity. Over the years, I've hired some very nice guys who were basically college seniors trying to make a little money on the side. They weren't on Rentboy or M4RN or any other site. But I've seen examples where someone like this would be reviewed by some eager client and I think it's an extremely unfair situation. A poor kid who was basically conducting private encounters with a few clients suddenly finds himself reviewed in an extremely public site. If I were that person, I'd be horrified and I think rightly so.

 

There is a very slippery slope when you start reviewing people on the basis of these encounters and I don't like it very much at all. I like blacklists even less because the problems with blacklists are easily greater in number and severity. One can easily and quickly come up with a half-dozen scenarios in which an escort might decide to blacklist a client, most of which could easily be bogus or simply wrong. You said that you would only decide to blacklist someone if they failed your standards for being a "client". What's to say that the next escort has the same standards? Suppose they're in a bad mood, didn't really like the last client very much and decide to blacklist them.

 

Suddenly, some poor guy doesn't know why he can't get any escorts to call him back and he's unaware and will likely always be unaware that he's been blacklisted by someone who may simply not like him. Do some research and see if you can find an example of a blacklist that worked successfully and was well-regarded. Give yourself plenty of time because you'll need it.

 

BG

 

BG,

 

This is an excellent post, and sums up many of my feelings.

 

As far as reviews are concerned, I post relatively few for similar reasons. Most of my reviewable experiences are from outside of the country when I travel. I never review any of these out of country experiences, because they are often single, or low frequency events. I do not feel a review would be a reliable gauge for others to base decisions on.

[seeker630]

Ryan, thank you for your kind words.

 

In the part of your reply that I quote, above, you write "[y]ou may write a review...". In fact, I won't: I've never written a review of an escort and I never will. If you look back in the history of this Message Center, you'll find that I was against the idea of escort reviews way back at the beginning, twelve years ago or so. I was convinced then and remain convinced that the review process is fraught with problems.

 

* It is too easily manipulated by unscrupulous clients and unscrupulous escorts

* It's inaccurate because it's almost never a random cross-section of an escort's client base

* Reviews are often written to be more titillating than objective

* Escorts who have not agreed to be reviewed are reviewed anyway

 

This was an argument that I was destined to lose. I do understand that Daddy (and HooBoy before him) strives mightily to address the problems and create the best possible set of reviews that he can. I also understand that many people like the reviews and find them valuable. I accept that but I won't write reviews because that would be hypocritical.

 

I have always tried to contribute what little I could through this Message Center. I think that here, over time, we get a sense of one another and build some credibility. Then, if someone we know says "I had a real problem last night", it has meaning and is believable. Unfortunately, the current set of rules forbids even minimal reviews in the Message Center, so that capability is lost.

 

One of the biggest concerns that I had at the very beginning was for the escort who wasn't advertising and wasn't seeking publicity. Over the years, I've hired some very nice guys who were basically college seniors trying to make a little money on the side. They weren't on Rentboy or M4RN or any other site. But I've seen examples where someone like this would be reviewed by some eager client and I think it's an extremely unfair situation. A poor kid who was basically conducting private encounters with a few clients suddenly finds himself reviewed in an extremely public site. If I were that person, I'd be horrified and I think rightly so.

 

There is a very slippery slope when you start reviewing people on the basis of these encounters and I don't like it very much at all. I like blacklists even less because the problems with blacklists are easily greater in number and severity. One can easily and quickly come up with a half-dozen scenarios in which an escort might decide to blacklist a client, most of which could easily be bogus or simply wrong. You said that you would only decide to blacklist someone if they failed your standards for being a "client". What's to say that the next escort has the same standards? Suppose they're in a bad mood, didn't really like the last client very much and decide to blacklist them.

 

Suddenly, some poor guy doesn't know why he can't get any escorts to call him back and he's unaware and will likely always be unaware that he's been blacklisted by someone who may simply not like him. Do some research and see if you can find an example of a blacklist that worked successfully and was well-regarded. Give yourself plenty of time because you'll need it.

 

BG

 

BG, you make many good points here, but one point you make - and that has been made by others - is that posting here builds credibility. And I think we do indeed tend to believe people we like here. But...why? Everything said here is self-published , and represents what we choose to reveal of ourselves. And in most cases, none of it is verified or verifiable. I realize that apparently a few here have met each other, but those are exceptions. And certainly there are violent disagreemebnts here over certain escorts.

So - what justifies giving weight to the opinions of people here that we have no objective knowledge of vs the opinions of unknown reviewers?

 

I'm not attacking the Message Center (or anyone who posts here) - I'm actually trying to defend the reviews. For all their shortcomings and potential problems, I think they provide valuable information.

By the way, I wouild not review someone who wasn't advertising or didn't want to be reviewed. Actually, I thought there was a requirement that the escort have an ad, but I don't see any reference to that in the FAQs.

[Boston Guy]

Why? Ummm.... I guess because over time, I feel that I get to have a sense of someone from what they say here and how they say it. I also get a sense of who might be looking for things that are similar to what I might be looking for. And I get a sense of character. Certainly posters can hide under a mask but over time you do tend to see enough of the real person underneath to make a certain kind of character judgment. Those judgments may be unfair or unwise but I think that they're not terribly different than the judgments that we'd make with people that we see in front of us in real life but whom we only know casually.

 

BG

[Steven_Draker]

Sir I am not hostile I am real ... My posts are driven by that passion to stand for what is right. if it costs me "gold" or not. I will continue to stand for what I believe in my heart to be true.

 

Ryan buddy,

I applaud your honesty and your willingness to speak up with your heart.

However, you are on M4M Escort Message Board. Most people here don't care what you consider right or true. If you want to be successful you have to tell them what they WANT TO HEAR !

 

That being said, I wasn't aware that escorts are allowed to review clients on M4RN. Personally, I would count on my intuition and gut and I would make sure (I don't like the term "screening") to get a personal feel of any new client I'm seeing (thru email exchange and phone conversation). That's worth far more than any black list.

 

Cheers,

[Steven_Draker]

Based on your angry posts it is obvious that my hiring schedule would never coincide with someone so hostile and angry.

 

mvan1,

Don't base your hiring decisions only to the postings on this board. We're all very different in the real life from what we are on a message board and that goes in both directions (if you see what I'm talking about). That opinion has been expressed multiples times by many posters and I'm agreeing to it.

 

Cheers,