Jump to content

Good News: Rove's Days ARE Limited


Tom Isern
This topic is 5984 days old and is no longer open for new replies.  Replies are automatically disabled after two years of inactivity.  Please create a new topic instead of posting here.  

Recommended Posts

So Scooter Libby is going to be hung out to dry for lying to the Feds while those who actually leaked the info on Plame will get off...at least for now. No surprise there. In these evil days, it's hard to expect anything better.

 

The Good News is that the end of the filthy, dishonest, Republi-scum machine is already in sight. Tom Delay, Enron, Abramoff...it's still a culture of corruption and it's going to be fun to watch the ugly, incestuous empire continue to disintegrate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest rohale

Nice heading for a topic, Let's think about this for a moment or two. " Roves Days ARE Limited ". Apparently not, So much for the Plume investigation and the involvement of Karl Rove. No indictment is being sought after for Mr Rove. Very interesting turn of events within the last week or so.

 

So it seems Karl Rove will be staying on afterall as a member of the Bush Administration probably until Inauguration day in January,2009 for the next President Of The United States.

 

Ro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest zipperzone

>So it seems Karl Rove will be staying on afterall as a member

>of the Bush Administration probably until Inauguration day in

>January,2009 for the next President Of The United States.

 

Unless he sucumbs to cervical cancer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're wrong, Rohale. Here's why:

 

Democrats dare to dream of recapturing the Bush heartland

 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329513440-119093,00.html

 

 

From Kansas to South Carolina, Republican moderates are turning their backs on the neocons and defecting to the enemy

Paul Harris in Topeka, Kansas

Sunday June 25, 2006

 

Observer

The squat, bunker-like building in a south Topeka suburb does not look like a place to turn American politics on its head. Nor does Mark Parkinson, a tall, affable man, look too much like a revolutionary. But here, deep in the American heartland, are the warning signs of a political earthquake.

 

The two-storey office block is Parkinson's campaign headquarters as he runs as Democrat candidate for deputy governor. So far, so normal. Except that only a few weeks ago Parkinson was a Republican. In fact, he was Kansas Republican party chairman.

 

His defection to the Democrats sent shockwaves through a state deeply associated with the national Republican cause and the evangelical conservatives at its base. Nor was it just Parkinson's leave-taking that left Republicans spluttering with rage and talking of betrayal. It was that as he left Parkinson lambasted his former party's obsession with conservative and religious issues such as gay marriage, evolution and abortion.

 

Sitting in his headquarters, the new Democrat is sticking to his guns. Republicans in Kansas, he says, have let down their own people. 'They were fixated on ideological issues that really don't matter to people's everyday lives. What matters is improving schools and creating jobs,' he said. 'I got tired of the theological debate over whether Charles Darwin was right.'

 

This is music to Democratic ears and has profound potential implications for November's mid-term elections. Kansas has been an iconic state for the Republican right, a symbol for issues such as teaching creationism in schools and fighting abortion rights. The modern Republican party, masterminded by political guru Karl Rove, has harnessed fury over such topics to allow the Republicans to dominate US politics since 2000. This was the topic of Thomas Frank's hit book of the 2004 presidential election campaign entitled: What's The Matter With Kansas? It used the state's falling under the spell of conservative Republicanism to explain national American politics.

 

But in a swath of heartland states such as Kansas, Democrats are seeing the first signs of their party's rebirth. Parkinson is not alone in switching sides. In Virginia, Jim Webb, a one-time Reagan official, is seeking to be a Democrat senator. In South Carolina, top Republican prosecutor Barney Giese has defected after a spat with conservatives. Back in Kansas another top Republican, Paul Morrison, also joined the Democrats and is challenging a Republican to be the state attorney-general.

 

Democrats are hoping that the Republican party of President George W Bush has passed its high-water mark. That, faced with disaster in Iraq, a host of domestic troubles and terrible opinion poll ratings, they can start to retake power in November. From there they can start to take aim at the White House itself. They hope the powerful conservative movement born in states such as Kansas will also die there.

 

An upbeat mood prevails at the monthly meeting of the Shawnee County Democratic party. The talk over iced tea in the dining room of the Topeka Ramada Hotel was of Iraq, family, friends and sports.

 

It has never been easy being a Democrat in Kansas, but things are looking a little brighter. 'I know a lot of registered Republicans who no longer agree with what's going on,' said Charlie Snow, a real estate manager. Wearing a T-shirt with a picture of George Bush Senior and the slogan 'I should have pulled out', Snow is not a typical Kansas voter, but he and his fellow Shawnee County Democrats see unaccustomed prospects. 'We have always been the underdog, but recently actions of the President and the Republicans have made it a lot easier to be a Democrat in Kansas,' Snow said.

 

One of the key reasons Kansas Democrats are in fighting mood is their governor, Kathleen Sibelius. Sibelius's vote represents an island of Democratic blue in a sea of Republican red on the political map, and she has impressed by reaching the middle-ground voters in a startlingly successful first term. Shunning the hot-button social issues, she has focused on education, jobs and health. This has earned her approval ratings touching 68 per cent in a state that was overwhelmingly pro-Bush in 2004.

 

Sibelius has cracked the political holy grail: persuading heartland Republicans to vote Democrat. 'Her style works here, and then bringing over Parkinson to the Democrats has been the coup of all coups,' said Professor Bob Beatty, a political scientist at Washburn University near Topeka.

 

As the Democrats enjoy a resurgence, the Republicans are in disarray. Parkinson's defection encouraged other moderates to abandon a party controlled by right-wing religious zealots. In political terms they are called Rinos, or Republicans in Name Only. If enough Rinos desert, the strict ideologues in the party are likely to drift further right. 'A number of conservatives are actually pleased that the moderates are leaving the Republican party. That really could spell trouble,' Beatty said.

 

There is a long way to go. Larry Gates, chairman of the Kansas Democratic party, says his side is still vastly outgunned, but he is optimistic. 'The Republican party is just controlled by the neocons. They are not flexible. But in Kansas it is an issue like education that is foremost in people's minds,' he said. The Democrats bypass abortion and evolution to focus on jobs, schools and health. The Democrats' local slogan for 2006 sums up the mood: 'Hope in the Heartland.'

 

The issues in Kansas mirror those in Washington, and could decide November's election as well as shaping presidential politics for years to come. Nationally, the Democratic party is deeply split. It has not yet decided on a unified course of action for November or the presidential race of 2008.

 

The defections across the country have been spurred mostly by a reaction to the extremism of the right. The future, as Kansas predicts it, lies in the middle ground for the first party to stake a claim to it. 'That is the absolute lesson. No party is going to win an election by being on the edges. The first to go to the middle ground will win,' Gates said.

 

For the 2008 race, the Democratic frontrunner is Hillary Clinton. Though she has steadily shifted rightwards, she is still portrayed as a liberal and is seen as having little appeal in Middle America. The Rinos of Kansas and elsewhere are unlikely to respond well to Clinton. Other senior Democrats, especially those from the north-east, do not go down well in Kansas. Such names as John Kerry and Senator Ted Kennedy have little appeal.

 

So it could mean the centrist card is the Democrat lesson for 2008, electing someone from a southern or midwestern state who already occupies middle ground - candidates such as Mark Warner, former governor of Virginia, Tom Vilsack, governor of Iowa, and Evan Bayh, a senator from Indiana. If Democrats want to become the dominant party again, the revolution must begin in such places as Kansas. And Democrats in Kansas, deep in reddest America, are dreaming of a time when the whole country turns blue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, hope springs eternal. The message of this article is that sensible Democrats are moving to the center. Would that that were true! But permit me to doubt its general applicability.

 

It seems to me that in the time between elections, the largely Democratic-leaning press (among which I would include the Guardian, British as it is) file story after story like this, finding signs of change in the heartland. And then the elections come and -- lo and behold! -- the Republicans have won again. I have a sneaking feeling that may happen this year as well.

 

It is true the the GOP has placed itself in a difficult position in a lot of ways. But this is June. The election is still four and a half months away, and a lot can happen.

 

Just for the sake of fantasy, imagine this scenario, keeping in mind that Rove is now free and clear:

 

1) Iraq is more stable, and some of our troops have been redeployed back to the States.

2) Bush gets off his butt and out on the campaign trail in the states where he is residually popular with more than 45% of the electorate.

3) The GOP launches an effective positive ad campaign highlighting the generally strong nature of the economy.

4) The GOP launches an effective negative ad campaign, with the general message, "Things are tough, mistakes get made, but do you really trust the party that brought you ________ (fill in the blank)."

5) One more Democratic congressman is discovered to be as corrupt as the Republicans so far uncovered, cancelling that out as an issue.

6) John Murtha keeps frothing at the mouth, gaining the Democrats no new votes (those for whom opposition to the war is primary will already vote for Democratic candidates) but alienating more and more people who don't want the US to be defeated.

 

There could be more. I simply point these out as examples.

 

I think the Democrats get caught in a media bubble of their own making, listening to each other and self-reinforcing their faith in a change of heart by the electorate. If they are to win either house of Congress this fall they need to do more than point out the manifest idiocies of the Bush administration. Americans rarely vote protest. They will want to see programs that make sense to them.

 

Unfortunately, what I see is the Democrats in many places running to the Left. And that is not where the votes are. If the Kos crowd knocks Lieberman out in Connecticut, it could end in a Republican wipeout nationally. Joe Lieberman is highly respected, and I think he is a major reason why Gore did so well in the national vote. He added a lot to that ticket. If he is defeated by the MoveOns in the Democratic primary, he will almost certainly run as an independent, and likely win. More importantly, it will give fantastic legs to the message that the Democrats have gone over the edge, and could cost Senate seats in Michigan and Washington State, if not elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I’m glad you used the word “fantasy” to describe your scenario, BigMstr…because that’s pretty much what it is. To think that Iraq is going to magically gel into a western-style democratic government has been the deception of the year. And the American people are catching on to the fact that this administration is one of the most incompetent ever, and that they shellac their incompetence with lies. That little trick has to end at some point.

 

The Kurds, the Shia, the Sunnis…these groups hate each other. There is no tradition of democracy in Iraq. There is no unitary cultural or religious tradition to bind the country. The national borders were drawn by the West and the country was held together by a ruthless dictator uninvolved in terrorism. Our military force in Iraq is way too small to hold the exploding powder keg in one piece and there is no political will to deploy the forces necessary to do so. Meanwhile, every terrorist in the world is being drawn by the irresistible opportunity to shoot an American, while the majority of Iraqis have come to believe that it is morally acceptable to do so. Schools and services are not being rebuilt and supplied. Oil is not flowing smoothly. Their economy is in the dumper—AS OURS WILL BE SOON WITH ALL THIS ACCUMULATING DEBT AND RISING INTEREST RATES. Basically, America’s invasion of Iraq has been an unprecedented disaster and only promises to grow worse—for ALL involved. And all this is to say nothing of Afghanistan and Pakistan; it is to say absolutely nothing of the gross and blatant lies of Bush and Co. that lead us down this deplorable path.

 

You’re right about a few things: the press may seem to “lean” Democratic because they are in the job of exposing lies—these days, Republican lies. You’re also right that a lot can happen between now and the elections. And the Repugni-CONs are awfully good liars—they can spin any piece of bad news and their own incompetence into something that sells to a gullible public. And the Repugni-CONS seems to just keep on winning. And the Democrats seem to be taking forever to get any kind of act together. But the polls have indicated that Americans are waking up. Here’s a FACT for you: ALL nasty trends end sooner or later. This evil regime of incompetence, fascist arrogance, and deception in DC will as well…

 

Now, elections are approaching, let’s just wait for the red-yellow-orange alerts to reappear. Another Republican ploy. We’ve got Gay bashing and flag burning and abortion all in play—as usual. Now we just need an imminent threat!! Can’t wait!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The imminent threat will be gay Iraqi insurgents burning an American flag to demand U.S. support for abortion clinics in the Middle East! }(

 

And I don't know what the next previous poster is talking about when he says sensible Dems are moving to the center. In general, they're not. They've discovered that being RINO's isn't a winning strategy. Voters prefer genuine Republiscum to the faux variety. That's why Lieberman is in trouble. Mesdames Feinstein and Clinton may find themselves in the same sinking boar with their support of the flag-burning amendment. That's really the last straw for me.

 

I think what Americans want is raw, red-blooded, bleeding-heart American liberalism. Umpteen years of being trickled on has finally made them realize that it's disgusting the way they're being treated! A rock solid, plain-talking Democrat who speaks well and embodies their dreams will win. But only if s/he runs as a real alternative to the filth that has run this country into the ground.

 

And I'm going to leave it at that, because what I really would like to see happen to virtually every last Republican out there cannot be printed in a family-oriented bulletin board like this one! :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest rohale

>I think what Americans want is raw, red-blooded,

>bleeding-heart American liberalism. Umpteen years of being

>trickled on has finally made them realize that it's disgusting

>the way they're being treated! A rock solid, plain-talking

>Democrat who speaks well and embodies their dreams will win.

>But only if s/he runs as a real alternative to the filth that

>has run this country into the ground.

 

 

As for entertaining the idea that Americans are anxious for red blooded, bleeding-heart American liberalism. Somehow I'd rather doubt it. This form of liberalism has been dying a rather slow painful death within the last 20 years or so. Or as conservatives like to call them " TAX & SPEND LIBERALS " of a dying era in American politics. There are a couple of I suppose high profile democrats who are trying to revive this old legacy.

 

I only intend to focus on just two states, New Jersey and California. Let's take New Jersey, Democratic Governor John Corizone was in the news early last week, he caused a shut down of the state government. So what was all the fuss about, New Jersey's legislatures failed to pass budget on time as required in the state's constitution. Just exactly who was the Governor wrangling with, was it the Republicans? No not at all. So who was Mr Corizone entangling himself with, the Democrats who control the state legislature, in other words, members of his own state political party. Governor Corizone wanted to raise the sales tax from 6 to 7%. Democrats called his tax as absolutely unnecessary. There was a show down on July 4 and Democrats in the legislature bowed down to Governor Corizone's political pressure.

 

To be fair, the Governor's office argues that the new raised revenue will not only help pay down the debt but in due time will help ease property taxes by $275 a year. Now at the moment, Governor Corizone's popularity ratings hovers around the low 30's. The voters at the next general election will decide whether raising the sales tax was worth it to keep Mr Corizone in office for a second term. Or it may occur sooner rather than later in the form of a recall election. Just like former Democratic Governor Gray Davis of California found himself in a recall election in 2003 just over one year after being re-elected for a second term in office. If Jersey has a provision in the state constitution allowing a recall, then the Governor may find himself in good company with Former Governor Gray Davis.

 

Now speaking of California, Democratic hopeful Phil Angelides wants to be next Governor of the largest state in the union. He's desperately trying to unseat the current Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenneger. After a gruelling campaign in which he barely overcame the challenge from Steve Westly to win the party's nomination. I think overtime voters are going to regret their decison and wish that they had chosen the charasmatic Mr Westly instead ( same situation happened in 1990 when popular Democratic Lt Governor McCarthy was running against Mayor Dianne Feinstein and ultimately withdrew when he ran out of money to continue his campaign for Governor. Anyways voters would later come to regret it. Mrs Feinstein who became the Democratic nominee lost to Republican Senator Pete Wilson in November of that year) , . In the meantime Mr Angelides and his campaign staff have got their work cut our for them. He's runing a " TAX & SPEND " campaign. With just under 4 months left till election, most voters still dont know who Mr Angelides is. What's worse for his campaign is that the Republican attack adds are painting him into a corner by ironically using Steve Westly's own words against Mr Angelides. The voters of California will decide come election whether they embrace or reject the candidacy of Mr Phil Angelides and his tax and spend liberal philosophy that he so happily advocates.

 

So now how about a plain spoken Democrat to take on the Republicans. Well this hasn't happened since Senator Paul Tsongas was running for the Democratic nomination for President in 1992. What was he talking about. He had one simple message, " Cut Taxes, Cut Spending & Balance The Budget ". Senator Tsongas was talking about this just three months before Ross Perot appeared on Larry King to announce his presidential aspirations.

 

What Senator Tsongas found himself having to try in stopping Governor Bill Clinton and his campaign from stealing his ideas. As Paul Tsongas used to call Bill Clinton the " Giant Panda Bear ". After New Hampshire where Governor Clinton finished second, but acted like he won the primary, Senator Tsongas borrowed a phrase out of the Republican playbook by labeling Bill Clinton as " Slick Willie " and at the end of the day when all was said and done, Paul Tsongas was absolutely right. BTW, in that given year of 1992, there were two liberal candidates running, Former Governor Jerry Brown and Senator Tom Harkin and they were damn proud to be running as Johnson liberals. The problem was no one throughout the Democratic primaries really cared for these two candidates. So much for running as liberals in the early 1990's.

 

In fact prior to Paul Tsongas, there was only one other outspoken plain Democratic talker who wasn't afraid to take on his critics. This person turned out to be Speaker Of House, Mr Tip O Neill. He was a true liberal and very unapologetic. He's one of my favourite Democrats of all time, because he took them all on, from President Reagan to Sam Donaldson, he didn't care. If he believed in something, he could stick it to the best of them. Unfortunatley when he retired in 1985, he was replaced by that idiot Speaker Jim Wright who Republicans loved because he was very non-confrontational and later the final Democratic Speaker Of the House, Mr Tom Foley. What an absolute bore he turned out to be.

 

So what has happened to the red blooded liberalism of yesteryear. Well this is precisely where it'll remain. Today's form of liberalism is to oppose the Iraq war, which is fine. The problem is where do Democrats stand on other issues. Only last week some Democrats actually took a position on North Korea. Former Defence Secretary William Perry of the Clinton Administration stated that United States should bomb the North Korean test missile site. In other words running to the right of the Bush Administration. The problem with William Perry is that no one was really paying attention to him. Foreign policy is not really an area that attracts the Democratic establishment as a whole, let alone the grass roots campaign of internet bloggers.

 

No one really seems to know the true identity of the Democrats in today's political climate. The problem for the Democratic Party in general as always is that they dont have a clear agenda with a dinstinct message that resonates with people. Go back to 1992, when President Bush lost the election to Governor Bill Clinton, there was a large vacuum that had to be filled. This void was filled in not by any Republican politican, but rather the saviour came from the media in the form of Rush Limbaugh and he singlehandedly kept the Republicans together until 1994 when Hewt Gingrich and took off some of that pressure. Doesn't make a difference whether Mr Limbaugh was right or wrong, the bottom line radio was an enormous help for the Republicans in the early 1990's to counter the Clinton Administration.

 

Since Bill Clinton left office in 2001, the Democrats have done a terrible job in keeping the party faithful intact. I thought guys like Al Franken and Michael Moore would do a suitable job, but apparently not. Afterall the Democrats could have followed the same pattern as Republicans and used radio as a means to get out the message, but unfortunately they didn't. There is one area where Democrats are able to find a new medium and that's in the form of internet blogs. The problem is internet blogs are being used for the main purpose in pertaining to the Iraq War. I think Senator Joseph Lieberman could testify to this very well.

 

If only internet bloggers could look at the canvas in a bigger way and start talking about other practical social issues and maybe come up with an alternate to the current Republican foreign policy philosophy, but making sure that the message actually makes sense and not just bashes President Bush. Negativity turns off people very fast. Then just maybe Democrats have a chance to rebuild themselves, but they better do it fast. Afterall time is ticking on the political clock for 2008.

 

In the 1980's and 90's, America rejected liberlism. In the current decade, internet bloggers are helping the democrats a little bit, it's a new way to send a message, we'll just see how this plays out over the next few years. Afterall it wont be long before Republicans start their own internet bloggs to counter Democratic blogs. In the mean time, the Democrats of America should take a look at Europe and see Tony Blair in Great Britain and how he still keeps Socialism very much alive in that country in a more watered down version. Even more recently Italy elected the Socialists lead by Mr Prodi to govern the country.

 

Republican Political Consultant Dick Morris once helped President Bill Clinton in 1995 to shape up the triangulation policy and later the third way with Prime Minister Tony Blair in 1996. Mr Morris proved one thing, Tax and spend liberalism has never worked within the last 20 years and that's how the Democratic Party has always been identified with. He certainly convinced Bill Clinton of this. These days most Democrats are running centrist themes, sometimes it works and sometimes not. However no one is openly embracing the old form of liberalism of " Tax & Spend " anymore. It's a dead form of liberalim and that's where it belongs in the text book pages of history. Perhaps the Democrats should beg Dick Morris to provide them guidance, or if not, then allow Vice President Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign manager, Mr William Daley to take over the reigns of the Democratic Party from Howard Dean and allow Mr Daley to effectively run an aggressive campaign to unseat Republicans from the House and the Senate. It maybe years before there is a plain spoken Democrat to step up to the plate and shoot from the hip rather from the teleprompter. In the meantime Karl Rove will have his match coming from the dirtiest political player in the game, William Daley, As I said before, the political clock is still ticking for 2008

 

Rohale

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest rohale

>I think you're wrong, Rohale. Here's why:

>

>Democrats dare to dream of recapturing the Bush heartland

>

>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329513440-119093,00.html

 

 

As to how the article pertains to the future of Karl Rove, maybe I'm wrong, but on the other hand I just might be right. Here's why, right now Current Republican Chairman Ken Mehlman is running the show. He recently got involved in a congressional race in San Diego, California and helped the GOP in latching onto the seat and keeping the Democrats at bay. Now let's say the Republicans do lose the majority in the House Of Representatives. Many will demand the ouster of Karl Rove, but the final decision rests with President Bush. So far will all the pressure that Mr Rove has been under withinthe last year or so particularily with the Valerie Plame case. The President has stuck his neck out for Karl Rove.

 

In the Republican party there are guys like Senator John Warner and Senator Arlen Specter who despise Mr Rove. The main reason being that Mr Rove calls them " Republican Pacifists " and also behind the scenes he wants arch conservatives to challenge these two Senators in their respective Senate Republican primaries. In fact I think it might have been last week as a symbolic slap in the face to Mr Rove, John Warner apologised to Senator John Kerry in pertaining to the Presidential campaign of 2004 where Mr Kerry's service during the Vietman war was very much in question as to how he attained the purple hearts. Mr Warner apologised to Mr Kerry for his own behaviour in ever questioning Mr Kerry's military service. Some pundits felt that the message was being savored for Mr Rove. Senator Warner and Senator Specter would love to see Mr Rove thrown out of the Republican party.

 

At the end of the day, the White House will have to decide assuming that the GOP either lose majority in the House or the Senate, just exactly who should go. This particular White House has shown loyalty to Mr Rove for the last five years. If push comes to shove, then Mr Mehlman may end up becoming the sacrificial lamb as opposed to Mr Rove. There maybe that slight chance that both may survive. Besides the Republicans need Karl Rove for 2008, not for the presidential race, but rather the Congressional races. This is Mr Rove's primary area of expertise. We'll find out in the post election season around mid to late November just exactly who comes and goes within the Republican ranks.

 

Ro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

In order to post in the Political Issues forum, all members are required to acknowledge that their post is in compliance with our Community Guidelines.  In addition, you acknowledge that it meets the following requirements: 

  • No personal attacks: Attack the issue not the person
  • No hijacking: Stay on the subject of the thread 

  • No bullying, hate speech or offensive terms/expressions

In addition, if the moderators feel someone is reporting content simply because if it’s political stance (such as but not limited to reporting it as off topic but not other off topic replies by those that agree with your stance), the reporting person may receive a warning as well.

Content that does not comply with the above requirements will be removed.  Multiple violations may result in a loss of access to this forum.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...