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Why I voted for President Bush


Guest Ruben
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I seldon look at the Politics, Religion and War Issues forum because I do not like the kind of comments that are frequently made there. But I did vote to reelect President Bush, and I offer here the reasons why I did so.

 

I voted for President Bush because:

 

I spent more than a year in Viet Nam. While in country I did not cut off anybody's head, I did not slice off anyone's ears, I did not use car batteries and wires on anyone in the country. I did not rape anyone, I did not shoot people in the back, and I did not do any of the other things John Kerry said I did routinely in Viet Nam. Nor did I ever see other U.S. soldiers do anything remotely like what John Kerry said they did in his testimony before the Senate in the early 1970s. Stated so long ago, stated so righteously, Kerry's words, based on the only thing I have to go on, namely, my personal experience, are false. His words were then, and remain so now, a personal affront, and so I voted for George Bush accordingly.

 

I voted for George Bush because:

 

I am an isolationst and have been so for many years. Several months ago the President announced his intention of bringing about 100,000 dependents of American military personnel in Germany back home. He also intends to bring back most of the Pentagon's civilian employees and to redeploy, mostly back to this country, about 70,000 U.S. troops. I desperately want this redeployment to happen. Judging by the reaction of John Kerry and his spokesmen to the President's announcement--hasty decision, premature action, insult to our allies--I have to believe that a President Kerry, subject to great German pressure, would have cancelled this redeployment. Bringing these Americans home is important to me, and so I voted for George Bush

 

I voted for George Bush because:

 

I voted for the President because I wanted to do a Three Stooges finger-in-the-eye to all those who would have so enjoyed the President's defeat. A finger in the eye for Chirac and the whole of the French media elite, a finger in the eye to Schroeder and Fischer, for Annan, the Security Council and the General Assembly, a finger in the eye for Jean Cretien and Carolyn Parrish, for Old Europe and old Walter Cronkite, a finger in the eye for Zapatero and whatever little piss ants run Belgium these days ( This piss ant remark is about as mean as I can get!). I wanted to do a finger-in-the-eye to the NY Times, to CBS News, Dan Rather and whoever it was who faked the fake documents, to university faculties and the Hollywood establishment, to Springsteen and Streisand, to every German who treated George Bush like a dog on his first trip to Germany before 9-11, yes, before 9-11 and before Iraq, a finger in the eye to Michael Moore and to a drunken Whoopi Goldberg with the bottle of wine in her hand, a finger in the eye to George Soros and Hans Blix, to the Guardian and the Daily Mirror and to everyone in London who thought they were being oh! so cute when they defaced George Bush's pictures with a Hitler mustache. This desire to poke a finger might not be the most mature motivation for casting a presidential vote, but it's one I felt deeply and longed to do, and so I voted for George Bush.

 

Finally, I voted for George Bush because:

 

The tactics used against President Bush by his opponents here and around the world are the worst I have ever seen. I'm an old man now. I have lived a long time and have seen many elections and many dirty tricks. I know that politics is a dirty business and that the desire for power can make people do questional things. But for me, at least, there are limits and these limits were crossed again and again during the presidentail campaign. I make no blanket statement about the people who decided to cast their votes for John Kerry. I assume they had their reasons for doing so, and I assume further that their reaons, however different they might be from my own, were important to them. I do make a blanket statement, however, and a statement of condemnation of those who were in what might be called leadership positions in the campaign against the President's reelection. I do not take kindly to charges of "Hitler" being used in American politics, and when George Bush is described as a monster, moron, thug, and idiot by people whose sneers smell of privilege, a line has been crossed and my vote goes to the other man. I know there are posters on this site who will argue that the champions of vulgar debauchery in this campaign are the Republicans. I do not agree. I say again, I have never seen the likes of the tactics used this year against the President, and so I voted for George Bush. I did not want to reward debauchery with victory.

 

In posting these remarks I do not want to argue with anyone, nor do I want to be drawn into an ugly exchange. We have plenty of that already. I just wanted to tell people why this gay man voted the way he did.

 

Ruben

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==While in country I did not cut off anybody's head, I did not slice off anyone's ears, I did not use car batteries and wires on anyone in the country. I did not rape anyone, I did not shoot people in the back, and I did not do any of the other things John Kerry said I did routinely in Viet Nam.==

 

But like most of the other soldiers there, you probably did enough pot and other drugs to permanently debilitate your thinking processes. For example, you lost your ability to recognize the dirty tricks played by the Bush supporters, who broadcast the second half of Kerry's statement about what others reported from Vietnam, without the context of what he said in the first half.

 

Car batteries and wires? Maybe you have that confused with George Bush's Abu Ghraib?

 

Kerry's record in Vietnam, and on Vietnam, was defended by his friend John McCain. You forgot to add him to your list of people you want to poke in the eye.

 

The experience of being a closeted gay male in the military can be as traumatic as being an alcoholic pilot in the Air National Guard. The two experiences are also similar enough that it is not surprising that someone who survived the first would empathize with someone who survived the second.

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Kerry Explains Your Anger

 

The dirty trick of taking the Kerry quote out of context is explained, ironically, by the full quote itself. Here is Kerry's Congressional testimony in 1971. Notice what he says about the anger you still have.

 

==several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

 

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

 

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. ...

 

 

 

Feelings of Men Coming Back from Vietnam

 

I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped. ==

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Guest msclonly

RE: Kerry Explains Your Anger

 

Ruben, You wrote a great synopsis of the way things are.

You left out Terry McAwful and misanthrope Michael Moore, who like Pelosi is constantly and persistently blaming EVERYthing on the Republicans, and they take responsibility for nothing. Not even their own disgusting behavior and speech.

And too many posters above do the same, year around.

They accuse the Reps of hatred, lies, etc., while they are doing the same at the very moment. It is called PROJECTION. That is accusing others of the very things, that they refuse to admit in themselves!

How pathetic! AS YOU CONDEMN, SO YOU BECOME!

 

 

Denial is a river in Egypt! But it is strange to see it run through so many posting on these boards.

 

x( x( x(

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I understand your stated reasons for voting for Bush, and it's a tribute to Bush's campaign that you have been convinced by their arguments that brought you along with many others to some false conclusions.

 

1. George Bush avoided going to Vietnam by using his own elite family connections to get him out of it. You and all of us of the age to go to the Vietnam War know that joining the National Guard was a dodge for going into combat. Kerry served in the war and received medals, which of course galled the right wing Republicans who like to see "patriotism" as their issue. So they went on the attack, trying to discredit Kerry's service. Talk about dirty tricks. They found a few old vets who support Bush and were glad to disparage Kerry because of their current political views. Kerry's statements before Congress are not necessarily false just because ALL veterans didn't witness the same things. Just because your experience didn't coincide with Kerry's does not mean it's untrue. Nor did Kerry ever imply that ALL the US military were torturers, anymore than people today are claiming that ALL the US Military in Iraq participated in the Abu Ghraib incident. Your animus against Kerry for his opposition to the Vietnam conflict seems based on many assumptions that you've read in the right wing press.

 

2. If you are an isolationist, George Bush is not your man. His administration's stated policy is pre-emptive intervention. That means that anytime the US government feels some country MIGHT pose a threat to us, we'll send in the military to take them out. Now, of course, this does not apply to places like North Korea that actually are a threat, but more particularly to places that control our oil supply. The whole Iraq conflict is counter to isolationist views (ask Pat Buchanan). The Bush administration, already intent on changing the regime in Iraq, and playing on the nation's fears after 9/11, invented reasons to invade Iraq that everyone at the time knew were untrue -- i.e. that Iraq was developing WMD's and were in cahoots with Al Qaeda. They cleverly muddled the very real difference between the war on terrorism that included the Afganistan war, with the Iraq invasion which had nothing to do with the war on terrorism.

 

3. Bush's announced intention to bring troops home from Germany is not part of an overall plan to scale back the US military overseas. On the contrary, Bush and Rumsfeld intend to throw American military might around as much as they can. Downsizing the German bases is merely a punitive measure against a country that confronted them about their false arguments at the UN. Instead, we'll be opening new facilities in poor Eastern European countries that sold their support to us, like Bulgaria, Romania, and perhaps Poland. Don't you wonder why these countries supported the Bush administration? Also notice that the bases in Italy are not marked for downsizing. Berlusconi backed Bush.

 

4. Your desire to "stick it to" the Europeans and American media that didn't swallow the Bush administration's feeble arguments for invading Iraq makes sense only if you believe that Bush was absolutely right to go to war with Iraq. To begin with, that war is contrary to your own isolationist philosophy. But also you should think about the possibility that the Iraq War did not need to happen and was not related to 9/11, except that the administration was able to sell it to the American people due to the fear that event caused. It's easy to condemn France, Germany, Canada, etc., for opposing the US at the UN. But the truth is that they had good reason to be skeptical. US "intelligence" consisted largely of information that came from Chalabi, a well known embezzler and Iraqi ex-pat whose principal interest was himself (as Rumsfeld now knows). Post-war information has mostly confirmed what the UN inspectors were saying before the war. But Bush and his team ridiculed them, knowing that Americans have a strong streak of xenophobia that would make them disbelieve the foreigners and swallow anything, including dubious data, from our own government.

 

5. Before you make judgements about who is "elite", you should check out George Bush's background and connections. His family is old New England WASP aristocracy. His grandfather made a bundle on Wall St. His father's friends set him up in business a couple of times. He was born into the lap of luxury, but makes a great effort to appear a man of the people, including adopting a heavy Texas accent. (Did you ever wonder why no one else in the family including his brother Jeb talks like that?). Bush's friends are deeply connected in the Texas oil world and beyond. Ken Lay was particularly close until the Enron scandal came to light. It takes enormous chutzpah for George Bush to call other people "elite", but he does it enough to convince people that he is some kind of Texas good-ole-boy.

 

6. The idea that the "media" is slanted to the left is an absurd canard that, however, is repeated so often that people believe. Fox News is practically the voice of the Republican Party. The three traditional networks make obvious attempts to be impartial, but Fox does even pretend to try. Other TV networks have numerous talk show hosts that lean heavily to the right, like Chris Matthews. CNN is tends mildly rightward too, as does USA Today. The Wall Street Journal is absolutely right wing. Talk radio is a sea of right wing pundits. You can read newspapers listen to the radio, and watch TV news without ever encountering a liberal idea. So what's the problem?

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Excellent response, pierrot. One thing to add: he speaks of "dirty tricks"...has he never heard of Karl Rove? Or the fact that Bush/Cheney's own website featured a video montage of images of Kerry, Dean, Gore and Hitler, all gesturing angrily? Or the robo-calls people were receiving in swing states days before the election that said "If you believe in gay marriage, vote for John Kerry. It's a Democrat principle"? Or the fake notices being sent to black voters that said "If you've ever been arrested for anything in your lifetime, you cannot vote, and if you try to vote, you will be arrested and your children will be taken from you"? If the Democrats were doing dirty tricks and committing fraud, then they must have been really really good at it, because only the Republicans were discovered everytime.

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Don't expect Ruben to have actually researched the issues before casting his vote. On another thread he states that he finds the biddingfortravel site too daunting to figure out even though it could lead him to a good hotel deal.

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Guest skrubber

Ruben

Well thought out and written post. I voted for Bush for ONE reason. I can't stand John Kerry, his running mate or his snippy wife.

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>I voted for Bush for ONE

>reason. I can't stand John Kerry, his running mate or his

>snippy wife.

 

How nice to be able to choose a U.S. President the way one chooses a high school student council president. Did you also like Bush's colorful homemade posters and his promise to end detention? :7

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Guest zipperzone

>Ruben

>Well thought out and written post. I voted for Bush for ONE

>reason. I can't stand John Kerry, his running mate or his

>snippy wife.

 

Oh really? Well I have it on the best of authority that he's not particularly fond of you either!

 

And as for the thought that Ruben put into his post.... Don't make me hurl.

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Guest zipperzone

>In posting these remarks I do not want to argue with anyone,

>nor do I want to be drawn into an ugly exchange. We have

>plenty of that already. I just wanted to tell people why this

>gay man voted the way he did.

>

>Ruben

 

Wow - they really snookered you didn't they? Stick around for a few years and see how you feel then!

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I respect your reasons for voting as you did, even though many here do not and thanks for telling us what lead you to vote as you did. As I stated in previous threads, we all have issues that are important to us. I am not a Veteran, was not in Vietnam so I have no idea how this issue weighed upon you. But I have seen many that feel as strongly as you do about the Vietnam issue and Kerry's Anti-War statements. I believe that Bush got the majority of the Veteran vote.

 

Even though I voted for Kerry I do not begrudge you for voting for what you believe in. Great thing is that you can vote for whoever you please for what ever reason you please. One thing that makes it great to live in America.

 

As for being a Gay Man that voted for Bush, seems you weren't alone. Exit polls show approximately 23% of Gays voted for Bush.

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>Excellent response, pierrot. One thing to add: he speaks of

>"dirty tricks"...has he never heard of Karl Rove? Or the fact

>that Bush/Cheney's own website featured a video montage of

>images of Kerry, Dean, Gore and Hitler, all gesturing angrily?

> Or the robo-calls people were receiving in swing states days

>before the election that said "If you believe in gay marriage,

>vote for John Kerry. It's a Democrat principle"? Or the fake

>notices being sent to black voters that said "If you've ever

>been arrested for anything in your lifetime, you cannot vote,

>and if you try to vote, you will be arrested and your children

>will be taken from you"? If the Democrats were doing dirty

>tricks and committing fraud, then they must have been really

>really good at it, because only the Republicans were

>discovered everytime.

 

Zippy,

 

The biggest dirty trick, which was aided and abetted by the pathetic Rather and the marginally less pathetic Jennings, was trumpeting the now thoroughly discredited exit polls throughout the day to dampen Republican turnout in swing states. It has been now reported that, contrary to the Old Grey Lady's official policy, one of the Time's reporters called Rather three times during the day. He's now on administrative leave. Talk about election fraud.

 

Also Rather and Jennings wouldn't call Ohio for Bush when he had a larger margin at midnight than Kerry had in Pennsylvania. The Democrats tried, with the assist of - the soon to be out to pasture eating oatmeal with the also inconsequential Cronkite - Dan Rather, to steal the election lock, stock and barrel. Take the blinders off you rose colored eyes liberals. You make Rove look like Mary Tyler Moore.

 

Later.

 

PS. The best thing about those phony exit polls was, however, that you actually thought you were going to win for most of the night. That made your inevitable loss so much more fun.

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I continue to believe that Kerry would have won if he had convinced a majority that he could do a better job in Iraq. But, he has not been a leader in Congress and has never held an important executive or administrative post. His plan in Iraq was the same as Bush's, except he claimed:" I will do it better." Without a track record, voting for Kerry was an leap of blind faith. Voting not to change to an unknown horse in mid-stream was more rational than the alternative.

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It's particularly odd to see gay men voting for Bush. The Republican agenda is blatantly anti-gay, and not just on the gay marriage amendment. The Ohio amendment includes stripping gays of partner benefits offered by their employers.

And Bush's opportunity to appoint some new gay-hating Supreme Court justices like Scalia makes the future of any kind of equality for gays pretty bleak.

So while you are refighting the Vietnam War, or giving Bush credit as a leader for getting us into another quagmire, your own rights are in serious danger.

Don't you guys recognize a steamroller when it's coming toward you?

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Guest zipperzone

>Don't you guys recognize a steamroller when it's coming toward

>you?

 

No - some of them don't. There's even a few that won't recognize it even after it has rolled over them and flattened them to resemble cardboard cutouts!

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Kentucky Poll

 

Well here's a good KY Poll for you:

 

Only 34% of all Kentuckians say they know someone that is Gay.

 

That even got a good laugh from some reporters on a Statewide Election commentary program. Obviously they know someone they just don't know it. Goes to show how big the closet still is in KY.

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RE: Kentucky Poll

 

> Only 34% of all Kentuckians say they know someone that is

>Gay.

 

 

Nationally, that questions gets about a 70% "yes" response.

 

But it could very well be that half the gay Kentuckians have left the state, leaving fewer for the straight people to know.

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PSALM 2004

 

Bush is my shepherd, I shall be in want.

He maketh me to lie down on park benches.

He leadeth me beside the still factories.

He restoreth my doubts about the Republican Party.

He leadeth me onto the paths of unemployment for his cronies'sake.

Yea, though no weapons of mass destruction have been found,

He makest me continue to fear Evil.

His tax cuts for the rich and his deficit spending discomfort me.

He anointest me with never-ending debt.

Verily my days of savings and assets are kaput.

Surely poverty and hard living shall follow me all the days of his

administration,

And my jobless child shall dwell in my basement forever.

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How exactly do they know you were gay and voted for Bush?

I think they pulled that statistic out of their ass.

 

Most Particularly Because I don't recall bubbling in anywhere at anytime that I was gay. And why does anyone need to know anyways---so they can use it against you?

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>Surely poverty and hard living shall follow me all the days of

>his

>administration,

>And my jobless child shall dwell in my basement forever.

 

 

Bleh... Don't remind me.

 

I have many friends that lost jobs with Capital One (and are still jobless) because their job is being outsourced to India...

 

Funny how he brags about how many jobs he had supposedly created.

And yet so many remain jobless... He fails to even mention any of the jobs he destroyed.

So overall, he killed a whole lot more jobs than he created.

 

Bleh.

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