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Sorry Day in the United States


LovesYng
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This is a sorry day for us in the United States. As of 11:00 AM EST the Kerry camp told the news media that KERRY IS CONCEDING To President Bush ;( John Kerry has called the President and said the American people have spoken and does not want the courts to decide. John will be on TV later today at 1:00 PM. God help us, four more years, for most this will be a sorry day x( But look at the bright side of it all, only four more years. I think we can survive.

 

When in doubt I whip it out :+

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>God help us, four more years, for most this will

>be a sorry day x( But look at the bright side of it all, only

>four more years. I think we can survive.

 

Alot can (not) happen in four years. As Frank Rich pointed out on Sunday in his as usual brilliant weekly column: the time between 9/11/01 and this election is just three months short of the span of Pearl Harbor and VE day.

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But a happy day at the Vatican

 

With a little help from the Jews, the church people who vote their religion have reelected the candidate who doesn't practice his faith but wears it well on his sleeve.

 

Republican inroads into the Hispanic vote are particularly disturbing. Ken Salazar in 2008, maybe?

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RE: But a happy day at the Vatican

 

The Jews? The Jewish vote went strongly for Kerry, as much as 75% I believe.

Now white Protestants, there's a group you might want to consider vilifying for supporting the Bushies.

Catholics were nowhere near as supportive as white Protestants.

You're blaming the wrong groups.

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RE: But a happy day at the Vatican

 

>With a little help from the Jews, the church people who vote

>their religion have reelected the candidate who doesn't

>practice his faith but wears it well on his sleeve.

>

>Republican inroads into the Hispanic vote are particularly

>disturbing. Ken Salazar in 2008, maybe?

 

You can't accurately pin blame on Jewish voters for what transpired in this election. The real issues I see at work relate to the rise of civil religion and "Amerocentrism"..... the need of many Americans to think that their "needs" and "desires" and "lives" are somehow superior to those of everyone else on the planet.

 

A case in point: the September 11 tragedy. With no desire to diminish the horror and loss experienced by families of the victims, I think Americans would do well to ponder things in light of the bigger picture. It is a reality that many more people have died in ongoing conflicts in hotspots around the world, yet these stories rarely get more than a mention on most American-based news broadcasts. The sad fact is that many Americans may consider the deaths of 1100 American troops in Iraq a great tragedy (which it is) but they barely give notice to the fact that 100,000 non-combatant Iraqis, mostly women and children have also died. The 1100 American soldiers are our fallen heroes, the 100,000 Iraqis are "collateral damage". It is precisely this kind of moral hubris that feeds the global animosity toward our nation and its people.....it is this kind of attitude that fosters Islamic hatred toward us......not Dubya's goofy rationale that "they hate us because of our freedom".

 

Homegrown fanatics are no less dangerous than those coming from foreign shores. It was not so long ago that one of our own, Timothy McVeigh, all-American boy and former marine who served in Operation Desert Storm used his military expertise to conduct what was at the time the worst act of terrorism in this country that had been seen prior to 9/11. Yes, he was captured and, as executions go, dispatched pretty quickly. Remember all the initial reports, when the Murrah building was blown up, that this was probably done by someone from the Middle East? And when, by a stroke of luck, McVeigh was captured, the shock and disgust that it was an American who was behind it all required quick action to get rid of him, so we could quickly forget about the unpleasant fact that homegrown extremists can be just as deadly as the foreign variety. Execute him quickly, so we can forget about him. Don't take the time to try to find out what makes him tick, so you might be able to accurately profile someone like him in the future with the possibility of heading off further tragedy. Zap him, get some vengeance, and then get him out of your consciousness. It's so much more pleasant to think of the enemy as someone foreign and external. Not so pleasant to think that your blond haired, blue eyed next door neighbor kid might be planning something heinous.

 

And whatever happened to the Anthrax terrorists? We sure don't hear diddly about that anymore. Better to let the public think it was probably Osama or Saddam behind it, than to spend time and energy getting to the bottom of it.

 

So merrily we go along, blaming Saddam for what Osama did, so we don't have to ever entertain the possibility that maybe something we did or didn't do might be a part of the equation. Fundamentalists are what they are, because they take the easy, simplistic approach to things: everything is black and white: we're righteous; anyone who doesn't see things our way is evil. The fundies love to major in the minors. I'd love to hear someone explain to me how allowing gays to marry is of more importance than the threat of rising levels of mercury in our environment, or the lack of health insurance and jobs paying a living wage. The bottom line is that they hate gays, they are threatened by people who are different from themselves, and they give themselves a feeling of moral superiority by taking a shit on other human beings because their fucked up religion tells them it's ok to do so.

 

John Kerry may just be the luckiest man in America because he didn't win this election. Now Dubya and the Republicans will have to actually deal with the mess they've created over the past four years, and I suspect the strategy of blaming everything on Bill Clinton, as they've tried to do up to now, won't hold water with the voters choose the next President. Based on past performance, you can take Dubya's words about working to heal and unite the nation with a grain of bullshit. I predict he'll be just as right-wing and extremist in his second term, and sometime in 2005, he will break his promise and will reinstate the military draft. I hope I'm wrong, but this is what I expect.

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Guest zipperzone

>>But look at the bright side of it all, only

>>four more years. I think we can survive.

>

>It's not 4 more years. Supreme Court Justices serve for life.

> It's more like 40 more years.

>

Rick - I've been saying this for months but no one wanted to hear it.

I fear you are correct and many of the rights you take for granted will be eroded by a Supreme Court that will echo the most religious right wing fanatics that put Bush back into the White House.

 

As a Canadian, perhaps I should be glad that Bush won over Kerry as I think Kerry is much more of a protectionist with regards to trade with Canada. But I'm not - I loathe Bush more than words can say.

It is indeed a sad day for all of us.

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RE: But a happy day at the Vatican

 

Bucky...I agree with what you've said but I think a couple of things need clarifying.

 

>The sad fact is that

>many Americans may consider the deaths of 1100 American troops

>in Iraq a great tragedy (which it is) but they barely give

>notice to the fact that 100,000 non-combatant Iraqis, mostly

>women and children have also died.

 

The current estimate is between 14,000 and 16,000 Iraqis killed. A significant number for sure. :(

 

>Execute him quickly, so we can forget about him.

 

I believe McVeigh was executed as quickly as he was because he declined further appeals though I'm sure that brought a sigh of relief to many. Remember how long John Wayne Gacy was able to drag it out?

 

Barry :)

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RE: But a happy day at the Vatican

 

>>With a little help from the Jews, the church people who

>vote

>>their religion have reelected the candidate who doesn't

>>practice his faith but wears it well on his sleeve.

>

>You can't accurately pin blame on Jewish voters for what

>transpired in this election.

 

Nor did I try to. But Bush made inroads into the Jewish vote that certainly helped in Florida. The Israeli newspaper Haaretz's website reports:

 

According to statistics on voting patterns among Jews, Bush can thank 22 percent of American Jewish voters for using their ballots to speak in his favor.

 

The amount is an improvement over the 19 percent Bush received in the 2000 elections, indicating his improved standing among the Jewish electorate.

 

ADL experts who examined the lists of major donors to the Bush campaign found that Jewish donations were higher than donations made in previous Republican campaigns.

 

According to unconfirmed results, Bush won 75 percent of Jewish votes in two large Brooklyn voting precincts that have a substantial concentration of Orthodox Jews, compared to a 25 percent turnout for Kerry. Ultra-Orthodox activists predicted Wednesday that the final results will prove that other voting precincts in Brooklyn with an ultra-Orthodox populace overwhelmingly supported Bush.

 

A highly regarded political consultant in New York, Ze'ev Furst, said Wednesday that voting patterns in the Jewish community drew a dividing and divisive line between the Orthodox segment and the rest of the community.

 

"In the current elections, Orthodox Jews played within the community the role of evangelicals in the general electorate," Furst said. The difference is that evangelicals make up about 40 percent of America's population, while the percentage of Orthodox members in the Jewish community does not exceed 10 percent.

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RE: But a happy day at the Vatican

 

There are two estimates available.

 

The one you quote of around 15,000 is from a web site that seeks to record the numbers killed in military action by the Coallition and I believe uses a set of fairly strict criteria if a death is to be included.

 

The higher estimates of around 100,000 are the excess number of deaths in the period following the invasion compared to a similar period beforehand. The study was based on interviews and used a recognised epidemeoligical method. Although a statistical survey they were fairly careful to use as representative a sample as possible and did make specific provisios about using data from "hot spots" like Fallujah. The whole published study is available at The Lancet web site. The 100,000 figure is the centre of the range of confidence but conservative assumtions have been used in the statistical ananlysis and the actual figure could be much higher.

 

As well as those killed by US bombing and insurgent action, it includes the extra "natural" deaths that have happened. These have been caused by a wide range of factors resulting from the damaged infrastructure and chaos. A measles vaccination program that the UN had organised was delayed by the war (and subsequently claimed as an "achievement" by Bremner and the CPA when it was finished months late) Pregnant and nursing mothers are not going for care in fear of the violence so infant mortality has rocketed. Doctors have left the country as they or their families have become targets of kidnapping for money. Raw sewerage pools in the streets from broken pipes.

 

Viewing the summary and the full report in .pdf format requires free registration so I attach this extract from the summary.

 

"The major causes of death before the invasion were myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accidents, and other chronic disorders whereas after the invasion violence was the primary cause of death. Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children. The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8·1-419) than in the period before the war.

 

Interpretation

 

Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Violence accounted for most of the excess deaths and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most violent deaths. We have shown that collection of public-health information is possible even during periods of extreme violence. Our results need further verification and should lead to changes to reduce non-combatant deaths from air strikes."

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I was speaking with a former colleague who retired to Alabama. He told me about a ballot initiative promoted by their Republican governor that would remove the last vestiges of segregation language from the Alabama State Constitution. He was one Republican who didn't get everything on his wish list on Election Day. The voters of Alabama rebuffed his efforts to do something good. The segregation language will remain intact.

 

As Goethe once said, "There's nothing so terrible as ignorance in action."

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