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Embarassed and Appalled at Kerry tonite


Guest ncm2169
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Guest ncm2169

IMHO, Kerry lost the election tonite. I wasn't surprised at his getting lost in minutiae, but that he flubbed some awesome opportunities is appalling.

 

Example: W talked about Saddam cutting off Iraqi's hands. Kerry could have said, "You've turned Iraq from Saddam cutting off Iraqi's hands into Americans having their heads cut off."

 

Beyond that, Kerry still has NO CONSISTENT MESSAGE.

 

Utterly appalling. Disgusting. I am embarassed at my candidate.

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I felt the exact opposite. I thought Kerry did an awesome job, presented one concrete position, and felt he made some progress to win the election.

 

On the other hand, I felt Bush came off less confident, repeated certain points too many times times ("hard work", Kerry being inconsistant, etc.), and just all around didn't seem as sure of himself. His points seemed muddled and lost to me.

 

I truly felt Kerry has a consistent position...one that acknowledges the possibility of mistakes and changing one's tactics, but that is stable. I really felt he did solidify a lot of things that were questions in my mind.

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I felt Kerry did a creditable job of distinguishing his position over against Bush's, which was little more than a mantra of "stay the course" and that the Presidency is "hard work". ABC and CBS polls both show Kerry the clear winner of the debate. Bush looked angry and made some really goofy faces.....(of course, he does this all the time.) Yes, Kerry may have missed some opportunities. Had I been Kerry, I would have been tempted to mention how Bush kept saying 'it was hard work", and would have asked him: Is that why you spend so much time either on vacation or at G.O.P. fundraisers.....to get away from that "hard work"?

 

It takes two or three days for the real impact of a debate to show up in the polls of likely voters, but I'm confident Kerry gained some momentum tonight, and at least he had his first nationally televised forum for people to know more about what he stands for. Incumbent presidents always have the advantage of the bully pulpit, and I'm sure the Kerry campaign feels good that their candidate did so well.

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Kerry clearly was better tonight. I wouldn't go so far as to say he knocked the ball out of the park. But I think he did himself a lot of good with the undecideds.

 

It would have been very tempting to go for some really nasty zingers, but I think in the long run he'll benefit from having been more moderate and civil. Voters may tolerate the attack ads, but they don't want to see their potential President acting like a street-fighter. Kerry managed to poke holes in Bush's balloons without being horrid, and I think some of his points will start sinking in, particularly if some of them are used as clips in campaign ads.

 

Bush seemed more hesitant, not to mention tired. His reactions to Kerry ranged from goofball to angry, which didn't look good on screen. Kerry, by contrast, had much better body language and posture (Bush hunches) and looked calm and attentive when Bush was speaking. Bush didn't help himself with his demeanor.

 

When people have a bit of time to reflect, they'll also realize, I think, that Bush stayed on message but it was as if by rote. He kept repeating his mantra of "mixed messages" but he really couldn't make it connect to anything Kerry said, and that makes it start sounding like an empty slogan. Kerry hit a couple of homers (saying he might have been wrong when he spoke about his reasons for voting against that funding, but that Bush had been wrong about the reasons for invading Iraq, and which mistake was worse, and reminding people that it wasn't Saddam who attacked us, it was Osama and al-Qaeda) and I don't think Bush did. That may work against him as people digest the debate. I'll be very curious to see how the polls look in the next few days in the wavering states that have been leaning towards Bush. I think the numbers are going to tighten up a lot. We'll have to see how the V.P. debate plays, and how things go with the domestic issues debates. But this election is far from over!!!

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Quotations From Chairman George

 

I understand everybody in this country doesn't agree with the decisions I've made

 

***

 

People out there listening know what I believe. And that's how best it is to keep the peace.

 

***

 

This nation of ours has got a solemn duty to defeat this ideology of hate. And that's what they are.

 

***

 

Jim, we've got the capability of doing both. As a matter of fact, this is a global effort.

 

***

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, "passes the global test," you take preemptive action if you pass a global test. My attitude is you take preemptive action in order to protect the American people, that you act in order to make this country secure.

 

***

 

The enemy understands a free Iraq will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred. That's why they're fighting so vociferously.

 

***

 

They showed up in Afghanistan when they were there, because they tried to beat us and they didn't.

 

***

 

I didn't need anybody to tell me to go to the United Nations. I decided to go there myself.

 

***

 

As a matter of fact, my opponent talks about inspectors. The facts are that he was systematically deceiving the inspectors.

 

***

 

it's essential that we make sure that we keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of people like al Qaeda, which we are.

 

***

 

Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden.

 

***

 

There will be elections in January. We're spending reconstruction money.

 

***

 

I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises. It's like a huge tax gap. Anyway, that's for another debate.

 

***

 

I wake up every day thinking about how best to protect America. That's my job.

 

***

 

When our generals on the ground and Ambassador Negroponte tells me that Iraq is ready to defend herself from these terrorists, that elections will have been held by then, that their stability and that they're on their way to, you know, a nation that's free; that's when.

 

***

 

A free Iraq will help secure Israel.

 

***

 

I thought they would stay and fight, but they didn't. And now we're fighting them now. And it's hard work.

 

***

 

The American people decide. I decided the right action was in Iraq.

 

***

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can

 

***

I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husband's sacrifice was noble and worthy.

 

***

 

Yes, I understand what it means to the commander in chief.

 

***

 

Yes, we're getting the job done. It's hard work. Everybody knows it's hard work,

 

***

 

I think by acting firmly and decisively, it will mean it is less likely we have to use force.

 

***

 

It just shows a significant difference of opinion.

 

***

 

Let me tell you one thing I didn't sign, and I think it shows the difference of our opinion -- the difference of opinions.

 

***

 

Of course, we change tactics when need to

 

***

 

I fully agree that one should shift tactics, and we will, in Iraq.

 

***

 

The military will be an all-volunteer army.

 

***

 

In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. You know why? Because an enemy realizes the stakes.

 

***

 

It's hard work. But, again, I want to tell the American people, we're doing everything we can at home

 

***

 

And now we're fighting them now. And it's hard work. I understand how hard it is.

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Guest zipperzone

>I think Kerry was awesome. He articulated his position

>affectively and made Bush look like a lost child.

>

>He managed to do this without looking like a mean or spiteful

>opponent. Bush looked uncomfortable and scared throughout.

>

>Kerry kicked A@@

 

I TOTALLY agree with you. Kerry was focused, articulate and on track. Bush looked like a deer caught in the headlights. And I was tired of him telling me how hard a job the Presidency is. And here I was thinking it was a piece of cake!

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Guest zipperzone

RE: Quotations From Chairman George

 

I think the blithering idiot demonstrated tonight that he has absolutely no qualifications for the job of President, what so ever!

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For fuck's sake, we all need to stop whining!

 

Kerry did a fine job, we anti-Bush's need to stop bitching about what could have been FOR THE NEXT MONTH and DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO ENSURE VICTORY! Volunteer with a local Democratic club, talk to relatives and friends, etc...

 

My views on the debate:

 

Kerry:

I thought the biggest opportunity Kerry missed was when Bush said he knows what the men are going through on the front lines because he reads the death tolls and watches TV. I would have given anything for a direct, pointed responce to that to have been Kerry's ONLY mention of his service/Vietnam. Some remark on how much time Bush spends skirting work and how the work is obviously too hard for him would have gone over well with me too. Not sure how it would go with Joe Undecided though.

 

Bush:

I can't help but wonder how Bush's crack about not holding Yale against Kerry plays with Joe Trailertrash. Yeah, he was going to vote Bush anyway... but I think this was actually a really sophisticated little remark. Us newly formed political junkies and the entire press heard it as a joke, knowing Bush went to Yale as well... but I bet the average voter still doesn't, so it may have scored points with any un-educated voters accidentally listening. Very Rovian. In fact I have new respect for exactly how smart Rove is from Bush's performance. If Bush would have been able to remember more of what he was told to stay instead of dropping back to the same thing again and again we really could have been in trouble...

 

I was also fairly surprised at how Bush turned off 'playing the idiot' like a switch! I knew he's not as stupid as pretends, but I was surprised they were worried enough about Kerry's debating prowess to change so abruptly. I don't recall a single Bush-ism, and he used words (especially in his first couple answers) 3X longer then any I'd heard him correctly pronounce before.

 

Bush did that creepy thing again where he mentions loving a woman, a widow of a soldier this time...

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I don't see how anyone could be embarassed at Kerry's performance in the first debate. Much less appalled. Those comments are simply assinine. While Kerry didn't strike a knock-out punch, he was very much in control of his subject and if anything, exceeded Bush's grasp of where the rest of the world is in relation to the actions and policies of the United States abroad. As a Canadian observer of U.S. politics, it seemed to me evident that Kerry will appeal to most foreigners, who have become increasingly uneasy about the direction of U.S. foreign policy under George W. Bush.

 

Interestingly, I noticed that Kerry hedged on the question of pre-emptive stikes against nations posing a threat to U.S. interests. He said he did not agree with Bush's position but it appeared he did not go back to the position of previous Presidents that the threat had to be "imminent". This is what is making other countries nervous and what stikes directly at the Charter of the United Nations.

 

As far as Bush's performance went, he seems most comfortable chanting his usual mantras about Kerry's so-called inconsistency and lack of a clear policy on Iraq, and he doesn't let the facts get in the way. To me he seemed less than Presidential for the first time in this campaign, when he had to stand toe-to-toe with his opponent on the same stage. His demeanor when Kerry had the microphone was very off-putting, to say the least. I'm glad the networks stuck to their guns about the cutaway shots, they were very revealing.

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Guest ncm2169

Hey, I'm happy as a clam to be in the minority on this one, not only here but in the face of the emerging spin consensus. :+

 

I stand by my characterizations/criticisms of Kerry, however. His vaunted debating skills, on display so well in the Weld debates, simply weren't on display last night, IMHO.

 

Upon reflection, I realize I was so focused on Kerry's performance that I blew off W's ad nauseum repetition of Rove's lines and his facial expressions. I didn't figure that the general public viewers would (a) be turned off by those aspects of W's performance, or (b) have the attention span for Kerry's more in depth observations. Perhaps I'm too cynical about the American electorate, but I'm not sure just yet.

 

For the record, Lucky, yes I am a strong Kerry supporter. Simply revisit the exchanges between Rick Munroe and me during the Primaries if you'd like proof. ;-)

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